The Great Canadian Skyline Thread!

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Towns in Greenland always seem to have far more appealing looking buildings than their counterparts in northern Canada. I guess it comes down to Danish culture vs. Canadian. Their design sense is far more refined and sophisticated than ours and it even manifests itself in remote northern communities. Even going from the Maritimes to New England or northern Ontario to northern Minnesota it's immediately noticeable. Everything is just that little bit cuter/nicer south of the border. Even the stuff at the malls.

We're always so weak in this area. Why is that? It's like our eyes don't work.

Towns in Greenland are actually warmer than on Baffin Island. Iqaluit is typically 15-20 degrees colder than Nuuk in the winter in large part due to the warm Atlantic currents. Iqaluit has to deal with cold winds blowing across the Arctic Archipelago and must deal with the Baffin Bay cycling of cold water.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Towns in Greenland always seem to have far more appealing looking buildings than their counterparts in northern Canada. I guess it comes down to Danish culture vs. Canadian. Their design sense is far more refined and sophisticated than ours and it even manifests itself in remote northern communities. Even going from the Maritimes to New England or northern Ontario to northern Minnesota it's immediately noticeable. Everything is just that little bit cuter/nicer south of the border. Even the stuff at the malls.

We're always so weak in this area. Why is that? It's like our eyes don't work.

Most Canadian northern communities (and there are some fairly large cities in the mix BTW) seem to be built as though they will only be temporary settlements. They are often resource-based (or at least were at the start) and so the aesthetic ethos (or lack thereof) is driven by the mentality that at some point you might have to pack everything up and get the hell out.

It makes for very utilitarian and drab places I agree.

[softee]

For its size, London has a pretty impressive skyline with more than a few sizeable office towers. Comparable to Halifax in that regard, although Halifax's skyline looks a bit more "big city" to me even though London has taller buildings.

[Ashok]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Most Canadian northern communities (and there are some fairly large cities in the mix BTW) seem to be built as though they will only be temporary settlements. They are often resource-based (or at least were at the start) and so the aesthetic ethos (or lack thereof) is driven by the mentality that at some point you might have to pack everything up and get the hell out.

It makes for very utilitarian and drab places I agree.

Northern Housing designs were, for the most part, imported from Southern Canada with very little regards for local climates or cultures. Precisely as you put it, these houses failed to adapt to cultures that were up until that point normadic.

With its very cold climate and extreme temperature fluactuation, and much higher indoor humidity loads, houses just fell apart when we kept using the same designs (such as same window, doors, envelope) from the South. A lot of the buildings we built did not stand up to time in these conditions.

Yukon would be the exception - I think. Groups there have been much more proactive, and started looking for appropriate housing. Similalry, the Danish goverment has put in a lot of research into housing in Nuuk, thus you have a better design that stands up to their climate and culture.

Nuuk

[Monolith]

Vancouver sky by Clive C, on Flickr

[Rico Rommheim]

Incredible Van shot.

[Delirium]

similar shot to above but with a bit more detail. Scroll>> Even without mountains, still a decent looking skyline-

Photo by Sean McDonald http://i.imgur.com/df5stsL.jpg

[Cypherus]

That panorama of Vancouver is beautiful.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Most Canadian northern communities (and there are some fairly large cities in the mix BTW) seem to be built as though they will only be temporary settlements. They are often resource-based (or at least were at the start) and so the aesthetic ethos (or lack thereof) is driven by the mentality that at some point you might have to pack everything up and get the hell out.

It makes for very utilitarian and drab places I agree.

I agree with that explanation, but we also see it in established places like the Maritimes, Toronto, etc. After a while one gets used to the lack of design sensibility in Canada, but once in a while you get a big reality check.

Muji (a Japanese retailer) just opened an outlet in Toronto. I'd been to their stores in London about 14 years ago, but walking inside really hammered home how unsophisticated Canadian design is. Everything right down to their pencil sets were noticeably nicer, cuter, better designed. Pencils? Yep, even Japanese pencils look better.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Towns in Greenland are actually warmer than on Baffin Island. Iqaluit is typically 15-20 degrees colder than Nuuk in the winter in large part due to the warm Atlantic currents. Iqaluit has to deal with cold winds blowing across the Arctic Archipelago and must deal with the Baffin Bay cycling of cold water.

And how does it explain southern Canadian towns and cities? Have you been to Europe? Live there then come back and it hits you like a ton of bricks how unrefined Canadian design sense is.

This has ZERO to do with climate.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Ashok

Northern Housing designs were, for the most part, imported from Southern Canada with very little regards for local climates or cultures. Precisely as you put it, these houses failed to adapt to cultures that were up until that point normadic.

With its very cold climate and extreme temperature fluactuation, and much higher indoor humidity loads, houses just fell apart when we kept using the same designs (such as same window, doors, envelope) from the South. A lot of the buildings we built did not stand up to time in these conditions.

Yukon would be the exception - I think. Groups there have been much more proactive, and started looking for appropriate housing. Similalry, the Danish goverment has put in a lot of research into housing in Nuuk, thus you have a better design that stands up to their climate and culture.

Nuuk

Great post. I noticed the same thing in Finland. Rather than importing standard practices from continental Europe they developed design that makes sense for Finland. It helps that Europeans are generally very design forward so it was always going to be something that received more attention. This is one of those things about Canada that has always frustrated me.

Really beautiful buildings there btw. I can only dream of attaining that standard in Canada. You know if it were Canada we'd just slap some plastic vinyl siding on those houses. The only thing typically Canadian are those passable (but ugly) windows on the house on the left. The house on the right? No way would we use nicely designed windows like that. And buried electrical? Toronto hasn't even gotten around to that 1920s technology yet. People here argue that overhead wiring is charming!

[Ashok]

^ Am taking a guess, but at least in terms of technology, Canada was at the forefront of housing research. I believe the rainscreen is invented in Canada. So, what happened? A lot of research funding cuts over the year, the CMHC (canadian housing and mortgage Corporation,) is being ( I think) phased out at the moment and a lot of other National Research institutions related to construction no longer exist either.

We used to have the R2000 Standards, and Energuide for homes (envy of the world in terms of energy efficient housing standards,) but I do not think these are used anymore.

When you look at places that have good buildings, it is not that they have very creative architects. The country invest more in research, regarding durability, health of occupants, energy efficiency. I think a product of that may be better housing.

Generally, North America is lagging behind Europe.

ps: Rainscreen basically means the facade of the building acts as a first defense against water, but we accept that water will get in, so the air cavity behind the wall serves both as a drainage cavity (for obvious reasons), and a pressure equalization chamber. So, by having an air cavity, the pressure on the outside + inside equalizes, thus it reduces the chances of rain coming in because of differences in pressure.

[Ashok]

I am writing what I am thinking - so these ideas are not well defined but maybe I am on to something. lol ...

Education in North America may be another issue. Architectural schools tend to push a lot for the art dimension of architecture... (this is just a generalization of course). In Europe, one studies architecture after graduating from engineering. Thus, architects here aren't as technical.

I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but designing a good building is like writing a great poem, if you don't master the language, it is difficult to play around with the words and get a good poem. Similarly, if you don't know how a building works, and all the parameters effecting it, then you probably wont have a good building. Moisture for instance, is a major issue in terms of the durability of buildings - but most architects don't really understand how moisture affects buildings.

[cyeg66]

Ugh, you guys are killing me with all the killer Montreal shots. Ok, that does it, <gavel hits wood> the house is going on the market and I'm moving back. Hope my wife doesn't question the For Sale sign going up on the front lawn...

[SkahHigh]

Best rooftop in town by Fred_514, on Flickr

[koops65]

The amazing, fantastic, blow your socks off, Downtown Oshawa!!!

[IMG][/IMG]
Pic by me this afternoon.

BTW, the downtown core is the group of buildings in the background on the right. Makes Kitchener look like Manhattan, doesn't it?

[Beedok]

I think the difference between North America and Europe is that they had centuries to develop local cultural styles. We've been trying to toss together European designs to make something new for a while, and while the Americans have had some success in the south with copying styles from Latin America and Southern Europe, the more continental climates of the northern US and Canada have limited the applicability of the designs of our majority homelands (Britain, Germany, and France). Eastern European designs seem to do a bit better, but are less popular. So instead we tossed together things that worked and vaguely remembered our cultural origins.

http://berkeleyearth.org/graphics/physical-effects-of-warming

[Brizzy82]

CMHR by MR|photography, on Flickr


Downtown Winnipeg #2 by Estefany Solano, on Flickr


Dowtown Winnipeg #1 by Estefany Solano, on Flickr


Foggy Winnipeg afternoon in December - December 13, 2014 by manitobaphotos.com, on Flickr

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I think the difference between North America and Europe is that they had centuries to develop local cultural styles.

That's very true, but you also see a difference when one goes from Canada to the US. 9 times out of 10 it's just a little bit nicer, a little bit cuter down south. That's true of houses, clothes, furniture, colour choices, the public realm.... absolutely everything you can think of.

I think it boils down to wealth. They've historically been a wealthier society. Over time a wealthy populace becomes more sophisticated in their tastes. Even in Toronto people still get mocked if they argue for something fancier. You're called a snob. Toronto's roots are blue collar/industrial and it reflects strongly in the greater culture that still dominates here. Anything extravagant is ridiculed as too opulent, unnecessary, un-Toronto.

Torontonians favour stripped down functionality and tend not to notice if it's not pretty. Caring about design is something typically reserved for wealthy people who have the time and money to care about things like that. Europe has a substantial elite that's been around forever. The US has a younger elite, but they've had wealth for many generations now. Canada? We've historically had neither except for the small establishment that lived in Montreal 1850-1980 and who picked up en masse and headed to Toronto.

It will take many many generations before design matters to the population here. Giving someone a $100,000 salary doesn't accomplish that. Their kids probably won't care about design either. The kids of those kids might.

[Metro-One]

Funny, in British Columbia I have the opposite feeling.

Once you enter Washington the rural / suburban urban areas feel far more disjointed with unnecessarily wide roads, far less attractive streetscapes (and where they are pleasant they are usually guarded behind extremely cold gated communities), etc... The entire I5 highway from the border to Seattle is pretty depressing IMO.

There are some nice towns of course, and some very cute seaside areas, but honestly nothing noticeably better than what is found in south western BC.

Same thing with the interior towns, both BC and Washington and Oregon have about the same mix of super cute old frontier towns, run down old industry towns, and pleasant mid sized cities with cute old frontier town cores and some not so nice (but clean and maintained) sprawl.

PS, Victoria is the one area where you can replicate Western European styles with success because the climates are nearly the same.

And honestly, seeing how cute many of the older towns are in Eastern Canada on this forum, success also seems to have been made in Quebec and the Maritimes despite the climate.

I feel this is a little bit of another "the grass is greener" scenario.

The far north comments have some truth, but no one here will dare say that the previously somewhat nomadic lifestyle of the large native populations also play a role in their current development styles. Even look at the difference between towns in the Yukon from those in Nunavut, and compare population demographics.

I am going to be burned on here for saying so, it is not the only factor of course, but it is also a factor. People from Nunavut don't exactly have a classical masonry, picket fence, English garden history...