Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[bardak]

Originally Posted by DKaz

TransLink hemorrhages riders since fare hike 5

Link

I think the term "hemorrhages" is a bit over the top for a drop of less then 1% from the same time last year.

[Pinion]

I dumped public transit a few hikes ago. Wasn't worth all the frustration for the minimal savings.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I dumped public transit a few hikes ago. Wasn't worth all the frustration for the minimal savings.

Same. I did try Skytrain again last September and early October but the breakdowns....not worth the stress. I may try it again once Evergreen Line goes on service....but we'll see.

[red-paladin]

I deliberately don't own a car, and use public transit.
It works for me but I have a somewhat stoic lifestyle.
I love commuting by skytrain, but travelling to 'the outer rim'... I'll admit to sometimes using taxis.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I deliberately don't own a car, and use public transit.
It works for me but I have a somewhat stoic lifestyle.
I love commuting by skytrain, but travelling to 'the outer rim'... I'll admit to sometimes using taxis.

I own a car. and because transit is so poor in this city, I actually prefer driving around the city. Feels like I can get to places a faster than taking skytrain (and absolutely faster than taking the bus, for sure). I also have a far more reach with my car, going to places where there isn't skytrain presence, or even bus service (frequent). Not worth it, in my opinion.

Now, if I were living in Asia. Well, all that changes. The public transportation is so good there, it's not worth owning a car (even if I could).

[WBC]

Originally Posted by Vancity

I own a car. and because transit is so poor in this city, I actually prefer driving around the city. Feels like I can get to places a faster than taking skytrain (and absolutely faster than taking the bus, for sure). I also have a far more reach with my car, going to places where there isn't skytrain presence, or even bus service (frequent). Not worth it, in my opinion.

Now, if I were living in Asia. Well, all that changes. The public transportation is so good there, it's not worth owning a car (even if I could).

Working from home, online shopping, cheap gas and increased transit fares will take their bite out of growth. I used to take SkyTrain every day downtown. Now, I work from home 4 days a week - same job (and I am not alone). As they say generals always plan for the last war - same thing here. Some of the brick and mortar institutions like UBC may look completely different in 20 years, however we still assume that there will be a large population going to UBC every day. That may not be the case. Same thing with businesses downtown.

[logicbomb]

I am pro-transit and now own a car.

Let's say someone wants to get to 96 Ave and Scott Rd from 96 Ave and 160th Ave. This trip by transit would take at least 45 min. 10-15 min by car.

To get to 64th and Scott Road from a 5km proximity to Guildford would take over an hour and require 3 transfers (96-> 319 -> 340) whereas it would be only a 20-30 min trip by car.

Tack on another 20+min to commute times during the evening hours.

Unless you reside near a FTN, a B-Line or skytrain, it is unrealistic to go long without a vehicle in this City. I tried it for the first 2 months and life was hell.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by WBC

Working from home, online shopping, cheap gas and increased transit fares will take their bite out of growth. I used to take SkyTrain every day downtown. Now, I work from home 4 days a week - same job (and I am not alone). As they say generals always plan for the last war - same thing here. Some of the brick and mortar institutions like UBC may look completely different in 20 years, however we still assume that there will be a large population going to UBC every day. That may not be the case. Same thing with businesses downtown.

Are you saying we should invest $0 in any transportation infrastructure including roads, buses, rail etc?

[WBC]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Are you saying we should invest $0 in any transportation infrastructure including roads, buses, rail etc?

I am saying that we should be very careful what we invest our money into based on traffic and business trends of the past or perceived growth (that real data does not support) . Our politicians and media love to do linear extrapolation of every single trend and assume that everything is going to continue forever as it did in the past. See Golden Ears Bridge - losing 35-45 million a year. Or more generally see predictions about "brain" drain, running out of oil (there were books upon books published about how production should have peaked in the last decade), doctor's leaving for the States, etc

We have multiple medium term trends (like telecommuting, car sharing, increase in cycling and walking, on-line shopping, and decentralization of services) working against both driving and transit demand. Add to that long term trend towards autonomous driving. We have data that tells us that in 2012 average daily traffic volumes in Massey tunnel for example are below 1996. Similar situation in on Pattullo and cars entering Vancouver CBD. And that is after all this population growth.

So all I am saying is that we need to be smart about our investments. Not that we should invest 0$ going forward. For example - instead of replacing Pattullo bridge how about we fix it up and ban heavy trucks from it so that its life can be extended?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by WBC

So all I am saying is that we need to be smart about our investments. Not that we should invest 0$ going forward. For example - instead of replacing Pattullo bridge how about we fix it up and ban heavy trucks from it so that its life can be extended?

I'm not sure how much you know about it, but the Pattullo Bridge and the George Massey Tunnel are not seismically sound. The Bridge was only designed to last 50 years and it's 77 years old. The GMT is 55 years old.

The Lions Gate Bridge is also as old as the Pattullo. But the deck was replaced (It's a suspension bridge, so this was apparently an option.)

Like... we're really seeing the results of short-sightedness made when these crossings were originally built. This is why we shouldn't be so short-sighted when building anything. Build it to last as long as possible, not to replace a few decades by building as cheap as possible.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WBC

I am saying that we should be very careful what we invest our money into based on traffic and business trends of the past or perceived growth (that real data does not support) . Our politicians and media love to do linear extrapolation of every single trend and assume that everything is going to continue forever as it did in the past. See Golden Ears Bridge - losing 35-45 million a year. Or more generally see predictions about "brain" drain, running out of oil (there were books upon books published about how production should have peaked in the last decade), doctor's leaving for the States, etc

We have multiple medium term trends (like telecommuting, car sharing, increase in cycling and walking, on-line shopping, and decentralization of services) working against both driving and transit demand. Add to that long term trend towards autonomous driving. We have data that tells us that in 2012 average daily traffic volumes in Massey tunnel for example are below 1996. Similar situation in on Pattullo and cars entering Vancouver CBD. And that is after all this population growth.

So all I am saying is that we need to be smart about our investments. Not that we should invest 0$ going forward. For example - instead of replacing Pattullo bridge how about we fix it up and ban heavy trucks from it so that its life can be extended?

Fixing it would be ridiculous. It's deck is too narrow to be safe. There's no room to add safety barriers. They deck is already falling apart and delaminating. The foundations have scoured, and need extensive repairs. The ends of the bridge have burnt down.

Steel parts have even fallen off the bridge and they haven't been able to find where they came from.

Then add on to the fact that steel arch bridges will never be as seismically safe as a suspension bridge or cable stay.

It may be cheaper in the short term, but we will forever nickled and dimed maintaining such a structure, and pay a constant cost in lost lives to substandard design and time lost to congestion.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by WBC

I am saying that we should be very careful what we invest our money into based on traffic and business trends of the past or perceived growth (that real data does not support) . Our politicians and media love to do linear extrapolation of every single trend and assume that everything is going to continue forever as it did in the past. See Golden Ears Bridge - losing 35-45 million a year. Or more generally see predictions about "brain" drain, running out of oil (there were books upon books published about how production should have peaked in the last decade), doctor's leaving for the States, etc

We have multiple medium term trends (like telecommuting, car sharing, increase in cycling and walking, on-line shopping, and decentralization of services) working against both driving and transit demand. Add to that long term trend towards autonomous driving. We have data that tells us that in 2012 average daily traffic volumes in Massey tunnel for example are below 1996. Similar situation in on Pattullo and cars entering Vancouver CBD. And that is after all this population growth.

So all I am saying is that we need to be smart about our investments. Not that we should invest 0$ going forward. For example - instead of replacing Pattullo bridge how about we fix it up and ban heavy trucks from it so that its life can be extended?

Good points in general. Yes, lets be smart about our investments. Make sure they are long term solutions and strategies.

For the foreseeable future people in general will have to go to-and-from work/school/daycare/grocery stores/doctors offices etc. We will continue to use most convenient to use transportation options for the given circumstance like personal car, group car, rental car, taxi service, taxi-like service, bus, train, flying, bike, walking etc). If we want to be smart about this, by all indications we will have more people moving to the lower mainland who will require transportation. There should be a hierarchy of types of projects based on goals... moving the most number of people with the least amount of infrastructure cost.

[MIPS]

I forgot that we missed a 30th Anniversary milestone.

November 9, 1984
The last beam of the Vancouver Regional Rapid Transit system is installed several hundred meters west of New Wastminster Station.


Image courtesy of Yaletown Productions

[Tourist9394]

Originally Posted by Vancity

they should actually have something like that in all the stations. i think asia's got it right usually with their idea of public transportation with smaller shops setting up shop in their stations (jugo juice does it in some of the canada line stations) - but could we get some more in there?

don't understand why they wouldn't do it.

i almost always refer to HK's MTR, because it is one of the world's best. vancouver's public transportation has a lot to be desired (as of right now). there could be so much more done for our public transportation (mainly skytrain) to be much better.

When they built the Canada Line, Kevin Falcon and the Translink executives went to the Hong Kong to learn from the MTR system. The Compass card is the direct imitation of the Octopus Card. MTR and Translink both have stark similarities because both were ex-Crown Corporations. Is there any chance Translink will go public like MTR? Will that be beneficial to the riders?

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Tourist9394

When they built the Canada Line, Kevin Falcon and the Translink executives went to the Hong Kong to learn from the MTR system. The Compass card is the direct imitation of the Octopus Card. MTR and Translink both have stark similarities because both were ex-Crown Corporations. Is there any chance Translink will go public like MTR? Will that be beneficial to the riders?

Yikes, I really don't think that would benefit the riders or the network in general. The company would then be responsible to its share holders instead of the public. Often its short minded thinking too to keep current stocks higher. That could mean forgoing and deferring maintenance to keep current stock prices high. Top executives would be able to raise their salaries and perks even more with even less accountability.

The organization does have some bad apples and could use some house cleaning but the majority of the issues is inability to raise funds for capital expenses.

[Xerx]

I thought that Translink was never a Crown Corporation like BC Ferries was or like BC Hydro is. I'd also like to point out that while the MTR is listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, it's still majority owned by the Hong Kong government.

[st7860]

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/12/fire-on-canada-line-track-near-aberdeen-station/
There has been a fire on the SkyTrain Canada Line’s elevated track near Aberdeen Station.

There is no information on the severity of the damage or the cause of the blaze.

No Canada Line trains between Bridgeport and Richmond-Brighouse are operational, however YVR to Waterfront are running. A bus bridge is in the process of being established for the entire 19 kilometre train route.

[hollywoodnorth]

Sean Kingsley ‏@Canuckoholic 2h2 hours ago

Wow. I just saw a skytrain derail and started flaming and sparking on the tracks in Richmond @translink Hope nobody is hurt

....................

RT @markrobinsonyvr: #Skytrain stopped short of the Aberdeen platform while fire and sparks shot out from under. http://1drv.ms/1AHbiKg

....................

NOT GOOD! FIRE VIDEO BELOW

• Video Link

[Metro-One]

Real question, but do heavy rail vehicles in general de-rail much more than ALRT? I don't think there is a single HRT line that has never had a de-railing.

Also, I am guessing this is an InTransit issue, not Translink? (Although either way people will blame Translink).

[dpogue]

From the video, the sparks look like Power Conversion Units exploding or severe arcing along the power rail.

I think it's unlikely that the train actually derailed. My guess is that the electrical fault caused the train to emergency brake, which someone misinterpreted as derailing.