Calgary International Airport II

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

Some points to put your mind at ease.

For starters, there is no reason for the gate planners to do their assignment activities on short notice. So I fully expect that gate assignments will be known 24 hours ahead and larger airline operators will have common gates. AC international, BA, KLM all leave from essentially the same gates each night, this practice will continue. To get your gate number ahead of the FIDS or announcement, look at the boarding card.

The airlines will have the gate assignments ahead of the general announcement. This is true for LHR where if one goes into the London lounge or now LHR MLL the FIDS had gate assignments when outside general hold room had gate unassigned indicator.

What to expect from the new terminal, all food and beverage and retail will be centrally located. Expect one large timmies location and do not expect there to be a small satellite location like what's currently at old gate 33. Washrooms and seats will be the only amenities near the gate locations. Want food, go back to the central hold room.

Each airline has different boarding signage, stanchion requirements, process, nod protocols. Therefore expect that airlines will generally use the same gates throughout the day. A mad dash to the gate is more inefficient for the airline than for the customer, so the first to complain will be the airlines if the YYCAA wants to put everyone in the hold room until the last possible second.

Well said. And completely true. The new concept will take a bit of getting used to but once you get the hang of it (and anyone who is even a minor av-geek, at least enough to read this forum should be able to) there's potential to have a much better overall experience.

It's not going to be a mad dash. YYCAA is not stupid, and there is going to be a lot of coordination between the airport and the airlines to ensure the setup works for all parties. Remember, it's not just the airlines who have a vested interest in the new terminal being a success, it's huge for the airport too. They currently have ~30% connecting traffic, a lot of this International & TB, and it is important pax are happy and feel comfortable with the new building so that YYC stays a connecting hub of choice.

And yeah, remember folks, this is Calgary not LHR T5 (where you have dozens of the same BA aircraft parked right next to each other.) It will be glaringly obvious which gate your plane is parked at once it docks and begins deplaning. For multiple International flights around the same time it's really just the Westjet planes that all look the same, maybe Rouge to LAX & LAS, but it can't be all KLM triple 7's, BA 787's and Cathay A350's (hopefully)!

Also, I am not sure how to emphasize this any more but, the holdroom's are going to be awesome! If you are even moderately interested in enjoying life (through booze/good food, shopping, interacting with other humans etc.) you won't want to leave! I fully expect people will begin arriving at the airport early for their flights to shop and have a few drinks / good eats beforehand.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

...but it can't be all KLM triple 7's, BA 787's and Cathay A350's (hopefully)!

CX A350s? YES please!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

YYCAA is not stupid, and there is going to be a lot of coordination between the airport and the airlines to ensure the setup works for all parties. Remember, it's not just the airlines who have a vested interest in the new terminal being a success, it's huge for the airport too. They currently have ~30% connecting traffic, a lot of this International & TB, and it is important pax are happy and feel comfortable with the new building so that YYC stays a connecting hub of choice.

.........

Also, I am not sure how to emphasize this any more but, the holdroom's are going to be awesome! If you are even moderately interested in enjoying life (through booze/good food, shopping, interacting with other humans etc.) you won't want to leave! I fully expect people will begin arriving at the airport early for their flights to shop and have a few drinks / good eats beforehand.

While airports and airlines have the same objective, sucessful airport experience, they have competing interests.

The airports highest value customers are all located in the free to them airline lounge where as the airport would rather have these customers perusing the duty free and going for F&B at the higher end establishments.

Passengers arriving for checkin greater than 3 hours prior to departure are a big problem for airlines because the early pax are mixing with pax from the previous departure bank. The airlines have to expend more checkin staff resources to properly sort the late arrival checkin pax from the extremely early pax.

With the exception of AC@yyz, airlines do not earn any benefit from retail. The new agreement between AC and GTAA has earn out provision so that AC gets airport fee reduction if they bring in more pax through YYZ and another earn out provision if the AC pax at T1 spend more on retail. At YYC new terminal, there is no benefit to the airlines for the retail component.

The retail component slows down the above wing staff by making them walk farther between checkin counters and the gates. The airport wants to recoup their terminal costs through higher than normal fees charged to each retail establishment. These higher fees increase the per diem pilots and flight attendants must be paid resulting in higher costs for the airline.

[Pegasus]

[QUOTE=Riise;6824269]On the bright side, AC is in Terminal 2 at Heathrow now. At least I'll get to see the new terminal!


Terminal 2 is very nice - apart from the very long distance between the A gates (by check-in) and the B gates (Air Canada gates and Maple Leaf Lounge).

Note also that in May Air Canada has just changed from B-777 to A-330 for the YYC - LHR route.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Well said. And completely true. The new concept will take a bit of getting used to but once you get the hang of it (and anyone who is even a minor av-geek, at least enough to read this forum should be able to) there's potential to have a much better overall experience.

It's not going to be a mad dash. YYCAA is not stupid, and there is going to be a lot of coordination between the airport and the airlines to ensure the setup works for all parties. Remember, it's not just the airlines who have a vested interest in the new terminal being a success, it's huge for the airport too. They currently have ~30% connecting traffic, a lot of this International & TB, and it is important pax are happy and feel comfortable with the new building so that YYC stays a connecting hub of choice.

And yeah, remember folks, this is Calgary not LHR T5 (where you have dozens of the same BA aircraft parked right next to each other.) It will be glaringly obvious which gate your plane is parked at once it docks and begins deplaning. For multiple International flights around the same time it's really just the Westjet planes that all look the same, maybe Rouge to LAX & LAS, but it can't be all KLM triple 7's, BA 787's and Cathay A350's (hopefully)!

Also, I am not sure how to emphasize this any more but, the holdroom's are going to be awesome! If you are even moderately interested in enjoying life (through booze/good food, shopping, interacting with other humans etc.) you won't want to leave! I fully expect people will begin arriving at the airport early for their flights to shop and have a few drinks / good eats beforehand.

I think this is the part I personally dislike the most, or perhaps it would be better put to say this is the part of the common hold room idea that appeals the least to me. I could really care less about having a few drinks or whatever ahead of time, and frankly being an introvert the fewer people I have to interact with the better as far as I am concerned. My airport experience is ideally finding a quiet place to sit, preferably at my gate or any gate for that matter and watching the activity outside.

I get the whole idea of the common hold room, it just isn't what I look for when I am travelling.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I think this is the part I personally dislike the most, or perhaps it would be better put to say this is the part of the common hold room idea that appeals the least to me. I could really care less about having a few drinks or whatever ahead of time, and frankly being an introvert the fewer people I have to interact with the better as far as I am concerned. My airport experience is ideally finding a quiet place to sit, preferably at my gate or any gate for that matter and watching the activity outside.

I get the whole idea of the common hold room, it just isn't what I look for when I am travelling.

You will be able to go and sit in more isolation than is possible right now beside the gate. Disaster averted!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Riise

Note also that in May Air Canada has just changed from B-777 to A-330 for the YYC - LHR route.

They must have just changed the scheds yesterday. Looks like FRA too. So both LHR and FRA have reverted to the 333 for the entire summer 2015 schedules. Bummer. I am surprised both AC YYC-Europe routes are being changed. The UK stats that get released did indicate that the LHR route was absorbing the additional capacity moderately. I'm going to try and find out to where the 77Ws have gone.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I'm going to try and find out to where the 77Ws have gone.

Getting reconfigured to 3-class is my guess for at least one frame, not surprising that YYC would be the airport to take the hit.

LHR from YYZ is 3x 77W, and FRA is back to 2x 77W. I'm not sure if all three afternoon LHR flights were 77W this year. With the additional pair of 77W AC ordered, I suspect we will see the 77W again. 2016 hopefully?

I found 2 flights that are 77W next summer that were not 77W this August.

AC 87 YYZ-PVG (was 77L... requires 1.5 frames, basically... at the moment one routes YYZ-PVG-YYZ-SCL-EZE-SCL-YYZ and the other follows her, it'd be some other routing in the summer when SCL is not a 77W), and the other is AC 856 YYZ-LHR (was 77L)

I can't see back into July so this is probably meaningless.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ that most likely explains it.

Still early for fall schedules too but AC now showing LHR as 763 and FRA 77L like this year so far. Was showing both as 77Ws well into November 2015 but that was highly unlikely. And YEG-LHR has now been removed from the fall 2015 scheds as expected.

I'm still looking at the skeds but it's pretty much impossible to pinpoint anything without knowing the exact 788 delivery schedule (not sure anyone ever knows that) and mx schedules for the 777's. As of now, I've figured out that YYZ-LHR-YYZ-PVG-YYZ is not a possible routing if the YYZ-LHR leg is AC 856, so there's some other leg at play. The PVG plane is most likely one that's had at least a decent break on the ground.

[thegx]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

And YEG-LHR has now been removed from the fall 2015 scheds as expected.

Still at daily to October 23.

Total Europe seats lost from June 1, 2015 to August 31, 2015 vs same period this summer: 15,288 each way

A figure that, if nothing else, shows how big an airplane the 77W is.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by thegx

Still at daily to October 23.

Sorry I meant for the winter scheds. There was speculation AC was returning to YEG-LHR for winter 2015-2016 based on AC's scheduling system. Yes the last flight showing on 23 Oct outbound. Similar pattern to this year.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Total Europe seats lost from June 1, 2015 to August 31, 2015 vs same period this summer: 15,288 each way

A figure that, if nothing else, shows how big an airplane the 77W is.

There are a lot of changes to many Western Canada - Europe markets next summer.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by Acey

Total Europe seats lost from June 1, 2015 to August 31, 2015 vs same period this summer:15,288 each way

A figure that, if nothing else, shows how big an airplane the 77W is.

Wow

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

There are a lot of changes to many Western Canada - Europe markets next summer.

Oh for sure, that figure is just specifically the gross loss for YYC from these two downguages, not anything related to a net for western Canada or even YYC, nor accounting for the fact that both would have started 77W sooner than June 1 and gone later than Aug 31, likely much later in the case of FRA.

Merely a quick calculation, 349 seats - 265 seats = 84 seats, x 2 flights = 168 seats x 91 days from June 1-Aug 31 = 15288

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Oh for sure, that figure is just specifically the gross loss for YYC from these two downguages, not anything related to a net for western Canada or even YYC, nor accounting for the fact that both would have started 77W sooner than June 1 and gone later than Aug 31, likely much later in the case of FRA.

Merely a quick calculation, 349 seats - 265 seats = 84 seats, x 2 flights = 168 seats x 91 days from June 1-Aug 31 = 15288

92 days! Wahahhhhaaaaa

Yeah I was just referring to the overall changes going on some "good" some "not so good" depending how one approaches these changes.

YYC changes (other than these AC changes). We have TS axing FRA and TS to AMS will now be shared with YVR. Rest of TS program is the same. KL adding capacity by way of more 777 flying. BA will probably be status quo unless something eventuates with YEG. DE is status quo too.

[YegFan]

Too much capacity to be absorbed for the 77W.

And the additional KL flights into YEG and larger aircraft from YYC into AMS appear to be flooding the AB-Europe market.

I think AC is following BA and doing the prudent thing here.

[ItsALondonThing]

Struggling to plan a trip down under next September at the moment. Planning on 14-18 days away, visiting SYD, MEL and going over to PER then home to YYC but very difficult planning the most time and cost effective way of making this trip. AC and QF are in different families which is problematic.