Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Millenium is worse.

Would you rather A/B/C/D 1/2/3/4?

To be really honest .... yes. Numbered or lettered.

[GlassCity]

Numbers, letters and colours are so boring. I like our names, it's unique

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Yeah, like Meraki said, the latest maps show it being called the Millennium Line, with the Expo Line branching off into Surrey and Production Way-University branches. The Evergreen Line name would not be used in this scenario. We won't know for sure for a while how they plan on interlining it all.

Ironically, the original plan to have an LRT from Douglas to UBC, before Glen Clark changed it to Skytrain, was called the "Broadway Line".

But frankly speaking, it should be Evergreen Line for a train that goes from Douglas to Arbutus, then Millenium Line if going from Waterfront to Columbia to Arbutus. The only ruckus caused here is the fact that Translink is the one that wants to terminate the Millenium Line to Lougheed.

But since its just a management decision, not a technical decision, no reason why Millenium Line, interlining with the Evergreen Line along the same guideway to Arbutus couldn't happen....someday.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by Meraki

Nothing's set in stone until the ribbon is cut. Remember the latest picture to turn up about the new wayfinding had the entire line yellow, and the expo line terminated at Production Way.

Of course that caused the tri-cities mayors to flip out because of the emotional connection they have with the name Evergreen Line, so who knows what we'll end up with.

If it actually terminates at lougheed i'll feel bad for the SFU Students that need to get off the train and transfer !

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by st7860

If it actually terminates at lougheed i'll feel bad for the SFU Students that need to get off the train and transfer !

I agree. Extend the line to Production Way and connect that station to a gondola.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Ironically, the original plan to have an LRT from Douglas to UBC, before Glen Clark changed it to Skytrain, was called the "Broadway Line".

But frankly speaking, it should be Evergreen Line for a train that goes from Douglas to Arbutus, then Millenium Line if going from Waterfront to Columbia to Arbutus. The only ruckus caused here is the fact that Translink is the one that wants to terminate the Millenium Line to Lougheed.

But since its just a management decision, not a technical decision, no reason why Millenium Line, interlining with the Evergreen Line along the same guideway to Arbutus couldn't happen....someday.

There is a game on steam called "mini-metro", it's a quick way to play the "how long can a metro line be before it's a problem" scenario.

IMO...


Not sure of origin source, but I found it on the Evergreen line thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/archive/index.php/t-165814-p-51.html

As far as the rolling stock is concerned, they're not exclusively for Expo, Millennium, Evergreen. The bottlenecks are the switches at Columbia station and Lougheed station. Since these two stations only have two stops between them, an economical solution is to have a 4-station line that requires transfers at Columbia and at Lougheed. (Which is what you would be doing anyway if you got on the Expo line in the first place.) Since this doesn't really make sense from a technical perspective, it makes more sense to have the trains "home" to each OMC stay exclusively on their part of the system(Expo or Evergreen.)

The problem I forsee with having the millenium line not truncated at Lougheed, is that nobody in their right mind sits on the full loop. If I'm going from Waterfront to any of the north Millenium line stations, I don't do the full trip, I'm going to switch at Broadway. This is in fact what I used to do to get from Joyce to Gilmore. The travel time was only slightly more favorable to do on the train than it was waiting for the bus.

So for this reason just truncating it makes sense, but I think Translink created an unfortunate problem in doing so, since the millennium line is what we call all the north stations.

Like having one line on Millenium line go to Columbia vs one line on Expo go to Lougheed, probably depends on the switching capacity of the stations. It makes more sense to name a line that goes from Commercial to Lougheed/Columbia the Millenium line, rather than name one that goes from Waterfront and terminates at Lougheed.

And if we're keeping the zone system for the train, it actually makes more sense to name the lines by which zone they terminate in.
eg UBC to Burnaby(2 zone), UBC to Coquitlam(3 zone), Waterfront to Burnaby/New Westminster(2 zone), Waterfront to Surrey (3 zone)

[Rational Plan3]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Numbers, letters and colours are so boring. I like our names, it's unique

Definitely agree, it should have some strong local flavour if possible, but as I know nothing of Vancouver history I'm not sure on that one, other than to note their sure are a lot of Scottish sounding names littered around the place.

I quite like line names that vaguely suggest something about the route or key destinations. So I do like 'The Broadway Line' over the Millenium line, only as 'Millenium' is name that has littered far too many public projects in the UK and while it does capture a time does not really say much about the line.

Broadway does align with a key destination, though I suppose Loughead Line does the same and does sound more alliterative. London's earlier lines used portmanteau , such as Bakerloo, but 'Broadcoq' might not be suitable but 'Broadlam' does not sound too bad.

You could go really old fashioned and sound Victorian, such as The Broadway and Tri-City Line.

I quite like the Expo line as it is, as I feel it speaks to a key historical date in the Cities history. I'm not sure, but it feels like the World Expo was a key date in establishing the cities worldwide reputation, the Olympics were nice but not that game changing, it felt like to me, though at least you got a rapid transit line out of it.

I suppose the Canada line is okay, but not very evocative.

The City and Sea Island Line sounds more poetic. The Cambie line at least gives a feel of where it is in the city.

I can't get a portmanteau to work for this one, as Vanmond, Vanrich or Vanport does not quite roll off the tongue, and 'Should have bought more trains you cheap sods' might not be appreciated.

[trofirhen]

I'll take back what I said about letters and numbers. New York uses letters, Paris uses numbers, and London has names.

For the UBC-Lougheed stretch, I'd call it the Broadway Line, then eastward,"The Tri-Cities" line.
{excuse me, but "Evergreen" this and that, is so ubiquitous in these parts, it has become a bit hackneyed and overused to the limit, from carwashes, to suburban streets, to motels .....}

The Millenium (again, an overused title, as pointed out ), could be called the Midtown Line.

Expo Line is okay, IMO. // And yes, "The City & Sea Island" line is more poetic / the "Airport-Richmond" Line would be right to the point, and more precise than "The Canada Line."

No accounting for taste ....(I just fear something like "The Skookumchuck Line")

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by Kisai

There is a game on steam called "Since these two stations only have two stops between them, an economical solution is to have a 4-station line that requires transfers at Columbia and at Lougheed. (Which is what you would be doing anyway if you got on the Expo line in the first place.) Since this doesn't really make sense from a technical perspective, it makes more sense to have the trains "home" to each OMC stay exclusively on their part of the system(Expo or Evergreen.)

The problem I forsee with having the millenium line not truncated at Lougheed, is that nobody in their right mind sits on the full loop. If I'm going from Waterfront to any of the north Millenium line stations, I don't do the full trip, I'm going to switch at Broadway. This is in fact what I used to do to get from Joyce to Gilmore. The travel time was only slightly more favorable to do on the train than it was waiting for the bus.

So for this reason just truncating it makes sense, but I think Translink created an unfortunate problem in doing so, since the millennium line is what we call all the north stations.

Like having one line on Millenium line go to Columbia vs one line on Expo go to Lougheed, probably depends on the switching capacity of the stations. It makes more sense to name a line that goes from Commercial to Lougheed/Columbia the Millenium line, rather than name one that goes from Waterfront and terminates at Lougheed.

All trains will be using the Edmonds OMC, the new one being built is just a storage facility.

As for terminating at Lougheed, I'd say that someone in the office pointed out that SFU traffic would be having to travel one stop and transfer (two transfers to go between campuses) and they determined it wasn't that much work to terminate the train at Production Way instead.

[AudiA3]

Extending the Evergreen Line/Millenium Line from Commercial all the way to UBC is an excellent idea. Now, with the mayor Gregor Robertson getting re-elected, what has he done so far to push this agenda forth?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Extending the Evergreen Line/Millenium Line from Commercial all the way to UBC is an excellent idea. Now, with the mayor Gregor Robertson getting re-elected, what has he done so far to push this agenda forth?

Had a press conference urging quick action to come up with a referendum question and push for a yes.

[Kisai]

Two articles on straight.com

Nothing too interesting here other than a mention of how SNC-Lavalin has had it's fingers in a few too many transit projects among it's corruption allegations:
http://www.straight.com/news/777436/scandal-plagued-snc-lavalin-remains-major-force-bc-economy

Scandal-plagued SNC-Lavalin remains a major force in B.C. economy

by BOB MACKIN on NOV 26, 2014 at 12:00 PM

...

SNC stands for the surnames of the company’s Quebec founder, Arthur Surveyer, and his 1937 partners, Emil Nenniger and Georges Chênevert. The firm rescued the Jean-Paul Lalonde and Romeo Valois–founded Lavalin engineering firm and merged with it in 1991. That was five years after Lavalin spent $50 million to privatize Urban Transit Development Corporation, the Ontario government company behind SkyTrain. Bombardier bought UTDC in 1992.

Very long article, but every step of rapid transit in Vancouver is mentioned.

Under Christy Clark, SNC-Lavalin has benefited from the Evergreen Line and John Hart Generating Station contracts at a troubling time in its history. If the B.C. Liberals green-light the $8-billion Site C Dam and voters agree to build the $3-billion Broadway subway, SNC-Lavalin would be a logical bidder on both projects.

Unless, of course, Robert Card’s warning of the firm’s dismemberment, disappearance, or sale comes true.

There's the newsworthy item. If SNC-Lavalin suffers, that might shelve all transit projects in Metro Vancouver.

It kinda insinuates that the only reason we have the Skytrain is because SNC has a financial stake in the technology, which is kind of a stretch since any patents would have expired around 2001 anyway.

Also from straight.com ...
http://www.straight.com/news/777826/how-...bring-rapid-transit-vancouver-and-surrey

How Gregor Robertson and Linda Hepner can bring rapid transit to Vancouver and Surrey

by CHARLIE SMITH on NOV 26, 2014 at 11:58 AM

...

Robertson’s promise depends on two big pieces falling into place. By early December, the Mayors’ Council is expected to agree on a question for next year’s transit referendum. It must be approved if there’s any chance of a Broadway subway being built in the next decade.

Secondly, the Conservative government would probably have to be defeated in next year’s federal election. That’s because the Mayors’ Council’s vision relies on the federal and provincial governments each providing one-third of the cost of major infrastructure projects.

There’s little chance of Prime Minister Stephen Harper injecting federal dollars into another rapid-transit project in Vancouver, where there are already 20 rapid-transit stations and the Conservatives have only one seat.

Contrast that with the vote-rich Fraser Valley, where the Conservatives always capture the most seats and have a chance to knock off NDP MPs Jinny Sims and Jasbir Sandhu.

Since this isn't the Surrey thread, I'll refrain from commenting on it here.

It seems like we're in a bit of a pinch for the Federal portion of funding for any of the projects as we're too close to a Federal election season (if one year is "too close.) The referendum is going to push any planning phase to at least March.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Kisai

If SNC-Lavalin suffers, that might shelve all transit projects in Metro Vancouver.

Seems pretty far fetched to me. Even if SNC-Lavalin were to cease operations, someone else would buy their manufacturing assets and hire their personnel in order to profit from it, just as they did with their predecessors.

[s211]

Not meaning to mix topics in a fashion, but SNC has already put four of their brand new floors in 745 Thurlow on the sublease market for the entire term of their headlease. Took too big of a bite, overanticipating future needs.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Numbers, letters and colours are so boring. I like our names, it's unique

I'm ambivalent about the current names and find corridor-based names - such as in Toronto - most practical yet unique. Except none of Vancouver's lines follow one particular street for a significant enough distance, so major milestones/events (Millennium, Expo, etc) is reasonable.

"Olympic Line" would've been the obvious choice what is currently the most embarrassingly-named subway line in the world, a poster-child for small thinking that received no more federal funding than given to any other mass transit project in the country.

For lack of any appropriate and non-arbitrary ideas for Evergreen Line, I would have preferred "Coquitlam Line", given the safe assumption that the terminus isn't ever going to extend beyond Coquitlam.

[Klazu]

CBC had Vancouver's mayor (the name escapes me) swear by his mother's grave and hand on a Bible that Broadway Skytrain will not be a cut-n-cover.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by dleung

For lack of any appropriate and non-arbitrary ideas for Evergreen Line, I wouldhave preferred "Coquitlam Line", given the safe assumption that the terminus isn't ever going to extend beyond Coquitlam.

I don't think Coquitlam Line would be appropriate since it will stretch to UBC in the west and could possible have a spur to Port Coquitlam and eventually across Pitt River.

[GlassCity]

I don't really see how destination or street names are at all unique.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't really see how destination or street names are at all unique.

i think major events work fine. though the name "Evergreen Line" shouldn't be around. since that name is from when it would have been LRT and this line is now 100% integrated, when built, into the millennium line.

and i also think the UBC/Broadway extension should just be part of the millennium line as well. since they were all planned at one point.

do people think the surrey extension should be called "Surrey Line?" or just keep calling it Expo Line.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by Kisai

There is a game on steam called "mini-metro", it's a quick way to play the "how long can a metro line be before it's a problem" scenario.

IMO...


Not sure of origin source, but I found it on the Evergreen line thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/archive/index.php/t-165814-p-51.html

As far as the rolling stock is concerned, they're not exclusively for Expo, Millennium, Evergreen. The bottlenecks are the switches at Columbia station and Lougheed station. Since these two stations only have two stops between them, an economical solution is to have a 4-station line that requires transfers at Columbia and at Lougheed. (Which is what you would be doing anyway if you got on the Expo line in the first place.) Since this doesn't really make sense from a technical perspective, it makes more sense to have the trains "home" to each OMC stay exclusively on their part of the system(Expo or Evergreen.)

The problem I forsee with having the millenium line not truncated at Lougheed, is that nobody in their right mind sits on the full loop. If I'm going from Waterfront to any of the north Millenium line stations, I don't do the full trip, I'm going to switch at Broadway. This is in fact what I used to do to get from Joyce to Gilmore. The travel time was only slightly more favorable to do on the train than it was waiting for the bus.

So for this reason just truncating it makes sense, but I think Translink created an unfortunate problem in doing so, since the millennium line is what we call all the north stations.

Like having one line on Millenium line go to Columbia vs one line on Expo go to Lougheed, probably depends on the switching capacity of the stations. It makes more sense to name a line that goes from Commercial to Lougheed/Columbia the Millenium line, rather than name one that goes from Waterfront and terminates at Lougheed.

And if we're keeping the zone system for the train, it actually makes more sense to name the lines by which zone they terminate in.
eg UBC to Burnaby(2 zone), UBC to Coquitlam(3 zone), Waterfront to Burnaby/New Westminster(2 zone), Waterfront to Surrey (3 zone)

I totally agree with Kisai. Millenium line, Expo line,Evergreen line , Canada line are absolutely ridiculous confusing and meaningless to visitors. Only locals know what they are. Simply name the line according to the regions it covers.
Canada line becomes YVR /downtown line
Expo line becomes Surry/downtown line
Evergreen line becomes Coquitlam /Commercial line
After all these are transit routes .why not make it as user friendly as possible.
Not fancy name reflecting the period that it was built. All vistors will thank you for it.