Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by Meraki

The Canada Line was red in plans and maps until it got caught up in Stephen Harper's larger directive to eliminate Liberal Red wherever possible and replace with Conservative Blue.

It changed around the same websites for federal services were recoloured predominately blue.

From Translink's Buzzer:

The question about the train colour scheme is an interesting one. As far as I know, it was never intended to be red. The blue, green and white colour scheme is intended to reflect the westcoast environment of mountains, sea and (sometimes) blue sky.

http://buzzer.translink.ca/2009/08/its-official-the-canada-line-opens-monday-august-17/

Harper's preferred colour scheme



Credit: CBC

[red-paladin]

The colour scheme of the trains / the project is not the same as the choice of colour for the line in Translink's maps and wayfiniding.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Meraki

I still think that's a dumb restriction. Any other company who has a <Vendor_System> already in place, with staff trained on that system is entirely in their right to choose the same vendor in an RFP unless some other vendor can show notable cost savings by using them instead.

It was only because of the Harper Government's requirement to funnel money into the hands of a P3 that we ended up with the half-assed underbuilt addition known as the Canada Line. "Olympic Line" changed to "Canada Line," to reflect the Federal Government's contribution to the project. Line colour changed from red to teal because there must be nothing that could be mistakenly associated with the federal Liberal party.

I don't know why you are blaming Harper for the Canada Line pitfalls since it is the Paul Martin government that funded the Federal government share, and I think it was also their government that "impose" the Canada Line name. Perhaps you should take the "its Harper's fault" in the Canada section of this forum where it belongs!

It was Gordon Campbell and Kevin Falcon that forced the P3 requirement, and frankly, all the Canada Line woes both during construction and the aftermath is their legacy. Add the Translink governance mess while your at it.

Sure, Canada Line exceeded its ridership projections, so they can go brag about the stats that is only useful in Skyscraperpage x vs y threads, while the actual riders that uses the service suffer from its inadequate capacity and overall poor, rushed planning!

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

The colour scheme of the trains / the project is not the same as the choice of colour for the line in Translink's maps and wayfiniding.

Well the Translink person said the map choice followed the colour scheme. Would love to see some factual evidence otherwise, though I do remember the colour changes for the graphics on the federal websites.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I don't know why you are blaming Harper for the Canada Line pitfalls since it is the Paul Martin government that funded the Federal government share, and I think it was also their government that "impose" the Canada Line name. Perhaps you should take the "its Harper's fault" in the Canada section of this forum where it belongs!

It's almost as bad as the Obama supporters still blaming Bush for everything that happens...

[faston]

I think you have it exactly backwards.

It is more comparable to the Obama haters blaming him for the complete mess that GWB left him.

For your comparison to be apt, they would have to be blaming Paul Martin for a line that Harper instituted.

[officedweller]

The original rendered livery also had red (with half maple leaf) together with TransLink's yellow and blue:


http://www.straight.com/news/metro-vancouver-staff-put-surrey-line-ahead-rapid-transit-ubc

The other factor could be that the livery and look of the Canada Line was changed
to tie-in to the "Look of the Games" which was all about blues and greens
(despite not being an official Olympic project).


http://www.howdesign.com/design-creativity/projects-profiles/winterolympics/

The Evergreen Line marketing logos are similar - TransLink yellow and blue with green this time.
But the trains won't look like that.


http://www.thev3h.com/2009/08/the-evergreen-line-will-translink-make-it-happen/

[spm2013]

And the side of the boring machine:



http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.ca/

And the final design:



http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=286568&page=44

[officedweller]

Hey - note that the InTransitBC logo on the TBM is just blue and green - no red.

*************

BTW - remember that ...
- the NDP painted the Seabuses orange when they initiated them in the 1970s; and
- the Socreds had BC Transit and the SkyTrains in red, white and blue livery, too.

[xd_1771]

So sometime earlier this year or the last, someone put up a list of all of the studies done on the Broadway corridor so far. Does anyone know where that post is, and could someone put up a link to it?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

So sometime earlier this year or the last, someone put up a list of all of the studies done on the Broadway corridor so far. Does anyone know where that post is, and could someone put up a link to it?

I decided to take a break and look at the UBC info in light of looking at the Surrey Net Present Value(NPV) and Cost Benefit Ratio data.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...udy_Phase_2_Alternatives_Evaluation.ashx

What's interesting is how the NPV is of a completely different scale.


It should be noted that at some point during the evaluation they were looking at two RRT options.

RRT Alternative
4.20 Two sub-options were considered – RRT1A and RRT1B. RRT1B generates nearly double the
transportation benefits for $300 million less in capital investment. It was therefore
recommended and agreed that no further work be undertaken on RRT1A.

to:

Rail Rapid Transit (RRT) – completely grade separated route linking UBC to
Commercial-Broadway via University Blvd, West 10th Ave and Broadway with two sub-
options at the eastern end:
 RRT 1A – completely underground route via University Blvd, West 10th Ave and
Broadway, independent of the existing SkyTrain;
 RRT 1B – completely grade separated route via University Blvd, West 10th Ave,
Broadway, Great Northern Way as an extension of the existing Millennium Line
SkyTrain from VCC-Clark;

And to make this time-revelant:
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/12151...for-broadway-subway-if-referendum-fails/

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson doesn’t have a Plan B up his sleeve if the transit referendum fails next spring.

Instead, Robertson is throwing all his energy into ensuring residents say ‘yes’ to the mayors’ council $7.5-billion regional transit plan for the Broadway subway, rapid transit in Surrey and bus service expansion.

Something I haven't figured out yet is how this transit referendum is going to work. Are they putting a single question with a list of taxes that will be rolled out, or are they going to create a list of revenue sources to cherry pick from?

[st7860]

Well of course RRT1 is off the table. RRT1 would sort of be like the Canada line...

[Caliplanner]

st7860...does that mean that the Broadway project doesn't get a subway????

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner

st7860...does that mean that the Broadway project doesn't get a subway????

The intent, at least in the document (and in hindsight regarding the Canada Line) is that building a non-integrated transit system has only half the NPV of extending the existing system. Hence it's more expensive to operate.

For every efficient* station added to the existing system, the NPV goes up, which means it's always preferable to extend the existing system.

*Adding stations too close together, is not efficient. The Skytrain averages 42km/h based on the station distance. Poor station choices, Inefficient bus and LRT routes averages 7km/h

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner

st7860...does that mean that the Broadway project doesn't get a subway????

It means the Broadway line will be an extension of the Millennium Line currently terminating at VCC-Clark Station, rather than a stand alone line sharing a terminus at Commercial-Broadway Station

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

It means the Broadway line will be an extension of the Millennium Line currently terminating at VCC-Clark Station, rather than a stand alone line sharing a terminus at Commercial-Broadway Station

Yes, and it will be called Evergreen Line since the Millennium Line will terminate at Lougheed once Evergreen opens.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Yes, and it will be called Evergreen Line since the Millennium Line will terminate at Lougheed once Evergreen opens.

Nothing's set in stone until the ribbon is cut. Remember the latest picture to turn up about the new wayfinding had the entire line yellow, and the expo line terminated at Production Way.

Of course that caused the tri-cities mayors to flip out because of the emotional connection they have with the name Evergreen Line, so who knows what we'll end up with.

[trofirhen]

The Evergreen Line .... principal metro line in Vancouver ... what an original name

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The Evergreen Line .... principal metro line in Vancouver ... what an original name

Millenium is worse.

Would you rather A/B/C/D 1/2/3/4?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Yes, and it will be called Evergreen Line since the Millennium Line will terminate at Lougheed once Evergreen opens.

Yeah, like Meraki said, the latest maps show it being called the Millennium Line, with the Expo Line branching off into Surrey and Production Way-University branches. The Evergreen Line name would not be used in this scenario. We won't know for sure for a while how they plan on interlining it all.