Winnipeg Construction VIII

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So they fired a bunch of scientists because the Government was in cut back mode a couple years back. Now they're at a surplus two years later and are giving them a bunch of money for a new building. When the building they're in is only what a decade old? Seems totally messed to me. Why not just keep the buildings, hire some scientists back (or whomever they are) and there ya go. But that's Harps for ya.

Sounds like they want to make it a business instead of a research facility?

Yeah, the objective is to steer the organization more towards research for the sake of monetization - ie. Imris - and less solely for the purposes of research. I don't find that to be a particularly bad objective, personally.

I had a very close friend who worked at the NRC in its prior iteration leaving fortuitously just before the layoffs started rolling out. His description of the place - and most of the reason he left - was that it had become a totally unproductive organization that had lost its way long ago. It hadn't created any worthwhile research in years and it had become the personal fiefdom of a couple bully researchers who were there to satisfy their own masturbatory research objectives. 'Completely broken' were his words. Apparently anything that had become even worthy of exploring was just folded into a private company somewhere and the bureaucrats were using company time to explore their developments further. So it sounds to me like this was fairly well understood which would explain why they cleaned house and became a little more forthright with the NRC's objective to create technology and research that could be used to sustain the organization.

Why they can't do it in the existing building is a little beyond me, but that building is huge. Unless you're staffing up to the same levels - which doesn't seem like the plan - you'd have a half vacant building...

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I had a very close friend who worked at the NRC in its prior iteration leaving fortuitously just before the layoffs started rolling out. His description of the place - and most of the reason he left - was that it had become a totally unproductive organization that had lost its way long ago. It hadn't created any worthwhile research in years and it had become the personal fiefdom of a couple bully researchers who were there to satisfy their own masturbatory research objectives. 'Completely broken' were his words.

I've heard the exact same thing from someone that worked at the Experimental Lakes Area.

[esquire]

What is going on near the top of Le Chateau York? I noticed a bunch of scaffolding up there.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Why they can't do it in the existing building is a little beyond me, but that building is huge. Unless you're staffing up to the same levels - which doesn't seem like the plan - you'd have a half vacant building...

The updated article today is much more informative than the one I posted yesterday..
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6819603&postcount=1449

From yesterday..Vague..to say the least.

"No other details have yet been provided for the new facility, including where it will be or how much it will cost."

...It's difficult to predict which way they will go without more details on the Federal Governments plans..budget, location, staffing and what mandate they will follow. They are desperately trying to make up for the cuts in R&D they've made over the last several years across Canada and the outrage from the scientific community. ie: Experimental lakes is another example. It's good optics for them to make an announcement like this one, even though they pulled out of the previous location on Ellice Ave.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

I think it is nonsense to say that the Perimeter can replace CPT. Try getting from Rothesay and Gilmore to Lag without CPT. You're not going to use the Perimeter, you will take a residential road.

I think this says more about the number of residential streets that access Lagimodiere then it does about the situation between CPT and the Perimeter.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

I've heard the exact same thing from someone that worked at the Experimental Lakes Area.

There are always three sides to every story with the last one being the truth!

[esquire]

I was driving down Pembina and I noticed that they're finishing a foundation on that triangular site that until recently housed an abandoned gas station. There was a sign for BLDG Architects, so I went to their site and saw this:



Source: http://www.bldgoffice.com/Watermart

A little bottled water depot and a billboard. Kind of underwhelming as far as site uses go, but at least the building looks a bit more interesting than the usual Pembina Highway commercial stuff.

[wags_in_the_peg]

It's 24/7, one of those "fill you own bottle" places

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was driving down Pembina and I noticed that they're finishing a foundation on that triangular site that until recently housed an abandoned gas station. There was a sign for BLDG Architects, so I went to their site and saw this:
.............

A little bottled water depot and a billboard. Kind of underwhelming as far as site uses go, but at least the building looks a bit more interesting than the usual Pembina Highway commercial stuff.

Yeah, not exciting but better than the one large digital sign we were talking about earlier, the lot is miniscule, so it's something.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6793004&postcount=4581


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6794458&postcount=4589

[Cyro]

Don't quote this source anymore due to inaccuracies in reporting on projects but here it is anyway.

RESEARCH FACILITY
Institute for Biodiagnostics,
$10,000,000 est
Note: Project has been allocated federal funding. Early planning is underway . Scope of work and project schedules are expected to be confirmed spring 2015.
Project:construction of a new research council facility.
Category: Educational bldgs; Government offices
Thu Nov 27, 2014.
-JoC

Fits the bill for the announced project by the Feds. $10 M, if anywhere near correct isn't a whole lotta coin for a facility of this type.

[1ajs]

this looks cool for a restraunt in the midle of the river


this years huts and info
http://www.warminghuts.com/

[esquire]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/blogs/under-the-dome/284150242.html

Free Press is speculating again about MLLC's planned move downtown. Interesting potential sites are mentioned:

-Former IBM Building on Ellice (I recall this building was built with upward expansion in mind... can that still happen some 25 years later?)
-CWB Building on Main (logical choice considering there's lots of room)
-200 Graham (hard to believe given that it's mostly occupied)
-136 Market Ave.
-226 Osborne St. (seems way too small)

and of course,

-The Bay (possibly in partnership with the U of M, which could take some of the space)

The Bay would be the sentimental favourite given that MLLC may be the last hope to possibly work out a deal to keep the department store going, but no doubt it would cost a fortune... if retrofitting the old Post Office to become the police HQ was such a financial bloodbath, one can only imagine how The Bay would turn out.

The CWB Building seems like a logical fit... lots of space and well located. I'd love to see the former IBM Building get it, but it's probably too small on its own. It would have to be expanded. And frankly, I'm sure many of MLLC's employees would probably not be thrilled with being relocated to the Central Park area... it may not be worth the quarrel for management.

[bomberjet]

I'm sure there's many more people willing to be located in a Liquor and Lotteries office no matter where it's located.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/blogs/under-the-dome/284150242.html

Free Press is speculating again about MLLC's planned move downtown. Interesting potential sites are mentioned:

-Former IBM Building on Ellice (I recall this building was built with upward expansion in mind... can that still happen some 25 years later?)
-CWB Building on Main (logical choice considering there's lots of room)
-200 Graham (hard to believe given that it's mostly occupied)
-136 Market Ave.
-226 Osborne St. (seems way too small)

and of course,

-The Bay (possibly in partnership with the U of M, which could take some of the space)

The Bay would be the sentimental favourite given that MLLC may be the last hope to possibly work out a deal to keep the department store going, but no doubt it would cost a fortune... if retrofitting the old Post Office to become the police HQ was such a financial bloodbath, one can only imagine how The Bay would turn out.

The CWB Building seems like a logical fit... lots of space and well located. I'd love to see the former IBM Building get it, but it's probably too small on its own. It would have to be expanded. And frankly, I'm sure many of MLLC's employees would probably not be thrilled with being relocated to the Central Park area... it may not be worth the quarrel for management.

A number like $400/sq ft for a Bay retrofit has been thrown around. I'd be very surprised to see that over almost 500K square feet. I still think there's an announcement in the offing for SoPo...

[esquire]

Given the softness of the office market I wonder if the best thing from a downtown development standpoint isn't to fill a large existing building like the now mostly-vacant CWB Building?

IBM Building would also be good, especially if ends up with a few floors being added.

200 Graham would add nothing given that that building has always been mostly full. 136 Market is such a nondescript building, and probably one better suited to anonymous government deparments/small businesses. Nothing about it screams "corporate headquarters". 226 Osborne seems completely unrealistic, unless it results in the construction of the Inlett office/condo next door and the office space gets joined to 226 Osborne.

SoPo is OK, but brand new downtown space seems like overkill for MLLC, especially when you have something like CWB that's move-in ready.

The Bay is a bit of a dream, but at $400/sf... wow, just wow. How deep are Manitobans prepared to go at those prices? If it's going to cost like quarter of a billion dollars to retrofit The Bay into usable office space... well, at that price I think demolition starts becoming a more appealing option.

How much space is MLLC in the market for anyway? I know when MTS moved downtown, it was quite a game-changer, like north of 100,000 sf. I'm assuming MLLC is not going to be on that scale.

[Biff]

I have heard a rumour that in order to save the bay there is a proposal that would carve it into two or three separate buildings.

......my most popular rumour for MLLC still put it in the SoPo development but a new one I just heard on the weekend was in the Canadian Grain Commission Building.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I have heard a rumour that in order to save the bay there is a proposal that would carve it into two or three separate buildings.

......my most popular rumour for MLLC still put it in the SoPo development but a new one I just heard on the weekend was in the Canadian Grain Commission Building.

Carve it into two or three separate buildings? I hope that anything like that preserves the integrity of the structure in general because otherwise, what's the point.

CGC is kind of out of left field... isn't the building filled with their operations?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Carve it into two or three separate buildings? I hope that anything like that preserves the integrity of the structure in general because otherwise, what's the point.

CGC is kind of out of left field... isn't the building filled with their operations?

CIGI - Canadian International Grains Institute is looking to move out to a new space which would vacate 60,000 to 80,000 sq ft. That is pretty much what MLLC is looking for.

[esquire]

Where is CIGI moving to?

[Simplicity]

It makes more sense than anything to use existing space. And not just because it's already there, but from the city's point of view, they'll currently have space that is generating a tiny fraction of its potential taxation revenue by virtue of its vacancy back to being a worthwhile producer. If MLCC goes into SoPo, you can guarantee the city doesn't see a dime in property tax for the next 18 to 20 years and some of these larger existing vacancies may never be filled. The only way to get both producing is to expand the market, and that could be charitably described as 'difficult' in this city.

The requirements for 'space' these days are just smaller. The way commerce has evolved, we rely less and less on square footage in order to achieve the same ends. That's why I'm not sure the Bay is ever really a feasible concept again. What used to require a five story behemoth of a facility can now be comfortably serviced through about half a floor, a website, a server room, and a warehouse that's utilizing a mostly just-in-time inventory system. And the same goes for offices, really. What used to require a 5000 square foot steno pool now requires a laptop and a scanner. Things have just changed. I get the heritage component, but creative destruction hasn't left real estate behind; we're just trying to pretend it has...