Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

getting stuck in traffic, on a bus for crazy times? that reminds me of when i used to have to bus down Broadway at rush hour. crawling along at a glacial pace in the middle of June at 3:00/3:30pm. slowly working towards the 98B-line which then became Canada-line.

the only reason evergreen line was built before Broadway was not because it is more needed/important, but because of all the little things done when millennium was built. realistically Broadway is hands down more important. its already saturated with buses, pass-ups happen more often then you'd think, and traffic down that corridor is a mess. car or bus it is hell either way.

the 99 doesn't just transport students like many people seem to think. a lot of people work at UBC and, of course, don't forget about the hospital. i remember there always being tons of hospital people on those buses. Broadway has a lot of jobs and just because it already has okay bus service now it doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve SkyTrain.

the only reason evergreen went ahead first was because it was always the furthest along, not the most needed. just look at ridership numbers. why should some place with ridership of less then 1/2 of Broadway get SkyTrain first? wouldn't it make more sense for high ridership areas to get transit that will attract more people and not be horrible?

its hard to include Canada line as that was more forced because of the Olympics, had they not happened there wouldn't be a Canada line. you cant really use that as a justification saying "they got it why don't we get it?" that goes for all the places complaining about Canada line being built first. it was a different circumstance with different reasons and variables.

I take the 99 B line every day, to work (not school), and it is almost never stuck in traffic (between Commercial and Arbutus). The 100% dedicated bus lanes work wonders. The only time it gets stuck in traffic when there is no major accident is when there is construction. Even minor accidents can block the general lanes but the bus lane can get through no problem.

For some reason Vision Vancouver values the money from developers more than the livability of its residents/employees. Why does a construction site need to close a whole lane of traffic (the dedicated bus lane) for years at a time?

I also used to live in Coquitlam. Now, if I had to take the 97 B Line then transfer to the 99 B line, I would not take transit.

If I have to chose which one I like less, it is the 97. Traffic on Broadway does not compare to the agony of going over the hill on Clarke Road, or getting stuck on St. Johns or at IOCO, or going the other way through Brunette.

Even being passed up by the 99 isn't as bad as the 97. Years ago the 97 would leave people behind, and it would be a 10+ minute wait for the next one. Even getting on the 99 EB during the PM peak is easier than getting on the 97 at Lougheed was a few years back.

Years ago, in the strategic plan, Coquitlam was identified as a major hub for growth. It had large, unused parcels of land in the town center that could be developed into high density housing, and homes could be built up the then undeveloped mountain. They went so far to limit the amount of parking required for each house, to cram more on a street, because Transit was coming one day so all members of a house wouldn't need a car. The whole reason people live there, the whole reason city councils allowed development there, was because rapid transit was coming.

If we only built transit where it was needed when we built it, we would only have a concentrated, Paris like, subway system focused on the Vancouver Core, with the suburbs sprawling away into the distance, ripping up farm land as far as the eye can see, served by freeways and express buses. Going back to the 80's, there was hardly a need for rail out to New West. People lived in the West End and Kits.

So there is always a political objective to building transit. Growth. It cannot be ignored. While Broadway is in desperate need of a subway now, the original priority was to make more of the land that was appropriate for development (better to develop on some hills in the NE as opposed to farmland/wetland in the Valley) easier to access for commuters.

If we had built Broadway first, and put Evergreen on the backburner forever, the lower mainland would be a different place today.

If 10 years ago we had said Evergreen line is not getting built until after Broadway, noone would have built there. Pressure to develop would have been on the area around the freeways, so people could drive. Framland would have been razed along the 99 and TCH corridors.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Burquitlam Station - November 10, 2014:


Construction on the Burquitlam station on the Evergreen SkyTrain Line in Coquitlam, B.C., November 10, 2014.
Photograph by: Arlen Redekop, Vancouver Sun
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/com...uver/10389780/story.html?__lsa=100d-007a

Looking good. I stand by my earlier statements that they should open Burquitlam station when it is finished, and start running Evergreen line trains VCC-Burquitlam ahead of the 2016 opening. Just use the same number of trains and divide them into 2 car sets to double the frequency.

Then when there are incidents on one of the lines, the other can keep running like normal, keeping at least some people content.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

If 10 years ago we had said Evergreen line is not getting built until after Broadway, noone would have built there. Pressure to develop would have been on the area around the freeways, so people could drive. Framland would have been razed along the 99 and TCH corridors.

Living in Vancouver, I'd certainly like to see the Broadway line put in as soon as possible. But I do have to say that your argument is persuasive.

[dpogue]

Some previously unknown details about the operations of the Evergreen Line were on page 10 of the SkyTrain outage report.

In 2016, the Evergreen Line will be added to the Control System of the Expo/Millennium Lines. This will add 28 individual vehicles to the fleet, 6 more stations and 11 more kilometres of additional SkyTrain service corridor length. Train maintenance will continue to occur at the OMC [Operations & Maintenance Centre] in Burnaby and two additional VCCs [Vehicle Control Centre computers] will be added to the current SkyTrain SELTRAC technology in the Control Centre of the OMC. As part of the Evergreen Line project, some vehicle storage, vehicle light cleaning and repairs, and guideway/wayside maintenance facilities are being constructed in Coquitlam, so some OMC activity will be diversified after 2016.

I am confused by the 2 additional VCCs, unless they're redoing existing control zones. The current system (not counting the OMC yard) runs on 3 VCCs, so an additional 2 for just 5 stations can't be right without some adjustments.

[red-paladin]

Maybe further backups?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Some previously unknown details about the operations of the Evergreen Line were on page 10 of the SkyTrain outage report.



I am confused by the 2 additional VCCs, unless they're redoing existing control zones. The current system (not counting the OMC yard) runs on 3 VCCs, so an additional 2 for just 5 stations can't be right without some adjustments.

They might be setting it up as 3+3.

As described, the original Expo line has 3, and the Millenium Line added 1 (see Page 10.)

Like 3 might be dedicated to the Expo line and 3 to the Millenium+Evergreen+Broadway line if/when built.

[officedweller]

Yeah, maybe they'll divide off Columbia - Lougheed (or Production?) from the existing M-Line (since it'll be operationally distinct from the M-Line/Evergreen Line and more related to the Expo Line), and add Evergreen Line as a new zone.

[officedweller]

From Yellow Fever at SSP:

Originally Posted by Yellow Fever

Coquitlam section

IMG_7570 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_7571 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Yellow Fever

IMG_7573 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_7574 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_7575 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

[MIPS]

I'll pull this up, only as a joke.

That last photo. Remember how all the Millenium Line stations were one of a kind and vastly different from eachother? I take it they're trying the same with each of the Evergreen Line's individual guideway columns.

[red-paladin]

[Olden Retreiver]

I've seen a fairly steady steam of trucks hauling spoil from the Port Moody portal, so there must be reasonable progress on the tunnel. The gigantic stockpile of tunnel ring segments beside the CPR in Port Moody has not been consumed however.

Wonder if this is work that was in the original schedule and plan:

http://www.portmoody.ca/index.aspx?page=917

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

I've seen a fairly steady steam of trucks hauling spoil from the Port Moody portal, so there must be reasonable progress on the tunnel. The gigantic stockpile of tunnel ring segments beside the CPR in Port Moody has not been consumed however.

Wonder if this is work that was in the original schedule and plan:

http://www.portmoody.ca/index.aspx?page=917

I doubt it. I wonder why the city is undertaking it though - I imagine that they could demand that the project reinforces the area before continuing work.

[SOSS]

Anyone know where they're hauling the material to?

[WarrenC12]

I have a friend who lives on the hill and her place has been rumbling as the tunnel boring machine chews through the earth about 25m below the surface. So something is happening.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I have a friend who lives on the hill and her place has been rumbling as the tunnel boring machine chews through the earth about 25m below the surface. So something is happening.

What a boring job - lol!!

[finalcoolman]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Anyone know where they're hauling the material to?

Yes I do I'll post a pic from Google maps when I get the chance.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

I've seen a fairly steady steam of trucks hauling spoil from the Port Moody portal, so there must be reasonable progress on the tunnel. The gigantic stockpile of tunnel ring segments beside the CPR in Port Moody has not been consumed however.

The tunnel ring segments must be set in place in order for the TBM to proceed, since the TBM uses the tunnel rim to "push off from".
The continuing existence of the stockpile probably just means they have precast a lot of the segments.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The tunnel ring segments must be set in place in order for the TBM to proceed, since the TBM uses the tunnel rim to "push off from".
The continuing existence of the stockpile probably just means they have precast a lot of the segments.

Every ring segment has to be cast for its specific geometry and location in the tunnel, so each ring is numbered sequentially and I think each segment of the ring is also numbered (or lettered) to know the proper order they fit together to form the finished ring.

Looking at each pile of concrete segments, you can find the 'ring number' they will assemble into. Then find the lowest 'ring number' number in the yard, and by noting the ring segments that have been removed from the yard we can monitor the progress of boring the tunnel and assembling the rings.

This might be done every day while waiting for your light to change during rush-hour.
Makes the commute a little less boring & routine

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

I've seen a fairly steady steam of trucks hauling spoil from the Port Moody portal, so there must be reasonable progress on the tunnel. The gigantic stockpile of tunnel ring segments beside the CPR in Port Moody has not been consumed however.

Wonder if this is work that was in the original schedule and plan:

http://www.portmoody.ca/index.aspx?page=917

The notice was for Spring 2014, and the renovation of the portal for Phase II tunneling was completed several months ago, so I'm not sure why this is still on the website - other than to give the locals a reason for so much truck traffic in the area.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^I know this isn't on any transit official's books, but it might be valuable to build two wyes: one just east of Lougheed that allows through running from the Evergreen line to Braid, and another wye that allows west-bound Millennium trains coming from Sapperton to access the Skybridge.

This would allow a one seat Tri-Cities to Surrey ride at relatively minimal cost (assuming that the two wyes cost about $150 million total). You could give it a unique line name and print it a different colour on the maps, too.

I guess you can do it under the current arrangement, too, if people are okay with traveling in reverse twice and the scheduling at Columbia and Lougheed allows it.

Way-back-when ....

There were original plans to have 'Lougheed Station' right on North Road between Lougheed and Austin with a "Y" configuration to connect all the tracks.

North of the station the trains would continue up North Road (as is being built today) to Coquitlam.

South of the station would be a "Y" or flying junction so trains to/from Vancouver would use the western stem of the "Y" and trains to/from New West would use the eastern stem of the "Y"

That meant that every train on any of the segments (north on North Road to coquitlam, West on Lougheed to Vancouver & UBC, South to New West) would enter the station and either continue in the same direction (ie: Vancouver to Coquitlam) or reverse (New West to Vancouver).

This would have made for a direct routing from Coquitlam to New West (and onwards to Waterfront), but the problem is still Columbia Station which can't easily handle trains entering the station and then reversing (sending them back to where they came from). This makes a Coquitlam to Surrey routing difficult because Coquitlam to New West train could go straight through the Lougheed "Y" station, but at Columbia would still require a reverse-move to go from Columbia to Scott Road.

Nobody is going to spend millions on rebuilding the tracks around Lougheed, so we're stuck with the compromises made over the last few decades (like the pointless track hump over Whitespot)

With the Lougheed configuration we have today, shuttle trains from Lougheed to Columbia could be run, allowing Vcc - Lougheed - Coquitlam and Waterfront - Columbia - King George trains to run independently of each other, but there is still the problem of difficult reverse moves at Columbia to make the Lougheed - Columbia shuttle work smoothly.


The compromise seems to be that when Evergreen opens, the routes will be:
Vcc - Lougheed - Coquitlam (likely "Evergreen line"); Waterfront - Columbia - King George ("Expo Line"); and some trains as Waterfront - Columbia - Lougheed ("Millennium Line")

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

...
The compromise seems to be that when Evergreen opens, the routes will be:
Vcc - Lougheed - Coquitlam (likely "Evergreen line"); Waterfront - Columbia - King George ("Expo Line"); and some trains as Waterfront - Columbia - Lougheed ("Millennium Line")

or - some trains as Waterfront - Columbia - Production Way ("Millennium Line")

I doubt you'd see a move to create a 2nd wye at SkyBridge until Surrey's downtown grows dramatically in terms of office space and draws a significant number of commuters from the Tri-Cities. Until then, those limited number of commuters will have to have a 2 transfer trip.