PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

my understanding is this is a CMX5 5 (only one in S Philly) lot and the spec is a FAR of 8 the lot by right can be FAR 12 - so my take and was even asked at one point is this is build by right and he could go higher by right

He has been in discussions with the Hawthorne group and said will continue and seemed to offer up helping to fix up the playground on the 12 block of Carpenter

My bet is that, while the bulk of the building and use will be by-right, he'll need variances for small things like the number of loading docks, which is a truly stupid zoning requirement.

[McBane]

The idea that a hotel goes together with a casino is dated now that gambling has proliferated. It's now an activity that many Americans can now do on the way home from work for an hour or two. Perhaps Market8 could have made a hotel work based on its proximity to the Convention Center and Historic District but believe me, no one is and no one will ever be planning a trip to Philly solely to gamble. I for one hope that the Gimbles site can be developed into something soon - the neighborhood certainly has momentum on its side.

Do the current owners of the site - the ones who proposed Market8 - have any sort of history in developing non-gambling projects? Speaking of which, I wonder what Bart does with his Provence site?

On that note, I wonder if Summers should create a separate thread in the General folder for the Live Casino as it will definitely generate a good deal of discussion.

[Cro Burnham]

AFAIK, Goldenberg specializes in big box stuff and in talking a big urban game without actually playing in one. Only one quasi-urban project that I know of: the red apt building near temple.

[bawdycav]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

Well lets let the new speculation formally begin for this location

with the Gallery and East Market its got to be either mostly residential or even better yet commercial

wouldn't a 1200 footer look grand there

This is the one of the best transit access sites in the city...this is a site for a super tall.

Come on Philadelphia...think bigger than yourself.

Thankfully at least this casino will force us to think of better for this prime of a location.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Cmon, man. You know that hotel tower would never have gotten built. All nonsense sales pitch. Market8 would have remained a lowrise slots barn for the local poor, who would be far more likely to sleep in cardboard boxes than hotel rooms.

Live! represents the most realistic way to get lots of suburban money spent in Philly with the least negative impact on city neighborhoods and poor people.

Thank god this is over. It's either Live! or nothing at all at this point, the two best possible outcomes possible in this situation.

Hopefully Sugarhouse will go belly up once live is up and running.

The only error in this logic, and it is a HUGE one, is that EVERY SLOTS BARN on the east coast is catering to that exact demographic. Market 8 would have been a departure from that logic in trying to attract the tourists who come to town, who are not car bound when they are here, and potentially don't even have access to a car.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by boxbot

All valid criticisms. On the other hand, it would have replaced a surface lot with a 550 foot tower.

We shall see.

Who are the developers who proposed this again?

Even though the casino license didn't pan out, I'd bet they're taking a look at Century 21's spectacular success across the street and realizing that, hey, that casino element can easily be reprogrammed towards retail ...

Bottom line: I wouldn't be too surprised to see this particular project come back from the dead, only with a retail component on the ground floor instead.

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

We shall see.

Who are the developers who proposed this again?

Even though the casino license didn't pan out, I'd bet they're taking a look at Century 21's spectacular success across the street and realizing that, hey, that casino element can easily be reprogrammed towards retail ...

Bottom line: I wouldn't be too surprised to see this particular project come back from the dead, only with a retail component on the ground floor instead.

I'm glad the casino ended up near the stadiums. It just seems like the best place to cross market entertainment and it won't annoy any neighbors. Still, there is something about this 550 foot tower of LEGO blocks I like.

I'm not sure who the developer was, but if they were serious about the hotel component, then they were likely serious about the proposal being more than just a casino.

Then again, so many of these casino pitches have a flashy hotel tower and look what happened to SugarHouse. The develop could have just been using the tower to promote a phased development that would have been just another gussied up warehouse.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The only error in this logic, and it is a HUGE one, is that EVERY SLOTS BARN on the east coast is catering to that I've demographic.

True. But the Live! site is so much better than the competition. Competitors may struggle, but Live! will clean up big time. Sugar House and Harrahs may have problems, but that's of no real consequence. I mean, other than their owners, who really ought to care what happens to them? Employees will just work for whichever is doing well. Individual casino sucess has no bearing on Philadelphia.

They should have built Live! initially and scratched Sugar House, which is an isolated island of crap with no synergies with anything around it.

I really don't buy the Market8 story of capturing the unique tourist/conventioneer market. Not when the place would have been filled with SEPTA-riding welfare and social security recipients . . . kind of like Sugar House is now. Just not a glamorous draw for out of towners.

Thank god it's over. No Center City casino. That's a major victory.

[Mappy]

Since Market8 wont happen as proposed, maybe the developers would be open to the idea i floated in the East Market thread... expanding the "Chestnut Walk" through the gallery and Market8 site:





I would add hight to those towers after looking at it more.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

AFAIK, Goldenberg specializes in big box stuff and in talking a big urban game without actually playing in one. Only one quasi-urban project that I know of: the red apt building near temple.

His firm also partnered on the condo conversion of the N.W. Ayer building on West Washington Square.

[josef]

Bad times in suburbia. "Shire to move U.S. HQ, 500 jobs from Philly area to Boston"

It's a suburb to suburb move, so Boston as a city isn't exactly winning here, but while Philly did try to shop sites to them like the Navy Yard, they wanted to be around Boston because of the critical mass of biotech companies up there. I guess we're not winning that game.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Shire-to-cut-600-jobs-in-Chester-County.html

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by josef

Bad times in suburbia. "Shire to move U.S. HQ, 500 jobs from Philly area to Boston"

It's a suburb to suburb move, so Boston as a city isn't exactly winning here, but while Philly did try to shop sites to them like the Navy Yard, they wanted to be around Boston because of the critical mass of biotech companies up there. I guess we're not winning that game.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Shire-to-cut-600-jobs-in-Chester-County.html

the area continues to bleed Pharma jobs

GSK Oncology to N Jersey and Novartis

Shire to Boston

AZ to Gaithersburg (Oncology already moved Gen meds following)

Merck and J&J to lessor extent are the only standing constant right now and some smaller ones but every year more and more pharma jobs to DC, Boston and N Jersey

[summersm343]

Both the state and city of Philadelphia are in dire need of a business tax restructuring. We're just not business friendly, at all. Hopefully, newly elected Tom Wolf can do this for the state, and 2016 elect city mayor can do it for the city.

[josef]

On the other hand, apparently 16 companies want some or all of the vacant space at the Navy Yard:

16 companies vie for vacant Navy Yard site

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20141119_16_companies_vie_for_vacant_Navy_Yard_site.html

Mixed bag, today.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by josef

On the other hand, apparently 16 companies want some or all of the vacant space at the Navy Yard:

16 companies vie for vacant Navy Yard site

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20141119_16_companies_vie_for_vacant_Navy_Yard_site.html

Mixed bag, today.

SEPTA needs to extend the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard already.

[VikingDutchman]

Originally Posted by summersm343

SEPTA needs to extend the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard already.

Memory serves, Wolf has mentioned this as a priority many times, which would augur well for the idea getting state support. On the other hand, the state senate Republicans have purged their philly-suburb moderate leadership, so we're probably still at square one.

[summersm343]

Hudson Hotel
13 floors
17th and Chancellor

Planning Commission voted to approve rezoning for the site.

The Planning Commission voted unanimously on Tuesday to recommend a bill that would allow a Hudson Hotel to be built at 17th and Chancellor streets in Center City. The hotel would be built on a property that now holds a parking garage and the iconic diner Little Pete’s.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/11/19/hudson-hotel-proposal-advances

[ePlanningPhila]

KOP released their expansion plans today. The new connection adds 155,000 sq ft of retail. Bringing the total sq footage to 2.86 million. (Largest in the nation). It seems they are targeting high end retailers. It will be interesting to see if this adds some life to the mall. Is it just me, but the few times I have been there outside of the holidays, the mall was dead. (Maybe this just reflects suburbia in general). The court has struggled more than the plaza, based on the vacancies I see. I am guessing this will create a stronger synergy. For this to be successful I really thought they would of added more of an outward "center" type of design, similar to the grove in Los Angeles.

http://www.phillymag.com/shoppist/2014/11/19/king-prussia-mall-unveils-expansion-plans/#gallery-1-1

[josef]

Originally Posted by summersm343

SEPTA needs to extend the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard already.

Agreed. Don't worry, Johnny Doc wants it too, so maybe it'll happen.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

That location is really only undesirable because of the huge vacant lots.

That and the fact that's it's in Hawthorne. Where's a cafe that's a block or two away to get your morning coffee? How about a great corner pub that's a few block walk? Good BYOB that's right around the corner? Nope. In other words you'd live in the city, without any of the charming benefits of city-living.

I think you may be "birds eye viewing" things a bit. Sure it borders "G-ho" and Bella Vista - but to get to Cambridge or Little Spoon it's a half-mile walk. Same with the Italian Market. Hawthorne's is like almost 3/4 of a mile away. It's a Big City, why anyone who knows it would choose to live there especially to the tune of 1000+ units (!) escapes me.