PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 281

sayitaintso · #**5601** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 5:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

hmmm this looks familiar x2 and connected

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=205040

The towers are just yucksteins way of shoehorning in the bigbox stuff at this location. Will be very surprised if towers ever get built. He is so predictable and must be a terrible poker player. He already showed his hand a year ago and is now trying to cover it up.

cafeguy · #**5602** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

The towers are just yucksteins way of shoehorning in the bigbox stuff at this location. Will be very surprised if towers ever get built. He is so predictable and must be a terrible poker player. He already showed his hand a year ago and is now trying to cover it up.

The Broad street tower is phase 1, so if they start, it'll get built. The second one likely won't happen with his track record. So at least we get the first!

edit...just realied you already mentioned this.

summersm343 · #**5603** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:10 PM**

^^^

I agree. The first tower will get built. It will be seriously downsized though to probably 350ish units. The second tower will NEVER see the light of day. Blatstein never gets the 2nd phase off of the ground.

Piazza in NoLibs was supposed to have a second phase. The Edge and Avenue North at Temple was supposed to have a second phase. And Tower Place at Broad and Spring Garden was supposed to have a second phase.

Baconboy007 · #**5604** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

^^^

Blatstein never gets the 2nd phase off of the ground.

I don't disagree with you but if he builds the box retail with the foundation to support another tower then it could get built down the line.

Kidphilly · #**5605** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:22 PM**

While I do agree the phase 2 track record is poor for Blatstein; with the downsizing of retail (~500K to 200+K) I think to make this financially viable he needs some residential component; which actually as of today is probably the financial driver of the revised proposal. He seemed adamant on that aspect last night.

If anything he may have learned a little from some prior projects and this puts a lot of vertical density/aspects on one smaller footprint. I also think he likes the larger retail box as even in No Libs the smaller retail continues to struggle while residential does pretty well - though the pathmark seems better leased (which i closer to the podium here)

I think he paid too much to only do 210K of retail here - either larger on retail or the ~current 210K with residential.

He also proclaimed he plans to move his Tower HQ here as well but that was the only commercial like space I took from the meeting

So while not having a ton of faith in the phasing - the financials may require it should it ever get off the ground

edit: Philly Live just got the formal approval

Jawnadelphia · #**5606** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:29 PM**

As expected,

Live! Casino wins casino license for South Philly location (just announced). (edit: kidphilly beat me!)

ILovePhilly · #**5607** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:35 PM**

I love the new Broad and Washington proposal so much more than the original proposal. And while I literally ALWAYS would go for LESS PARKING I think that 710 spots for 1600 units and a large retail destination is at least working in the right direction (rather than say, 2000 spaces like the 'typical' parking ratio would provide). That's a LOT of units and I really hope it gets off the ground. As a young person living in CC and planning to stay forever I need as many units as possible to be built to keep rents from going up at 10% a year every year! Best of luck to him.

boxbot · #**5608** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

As expected,

Live! Casino wins casino license for South Philly location (just announced). (edit: kidphilly beat me!)

It's too bad that the Market8 Tower will never be, although I suppose even if that location was picked, there's no guarantee it would have been built anyhow.

Kidphilly · #**5609** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

It's too bad that the Market8 Tower will never be, although I suppose even if that location was picked, there's no guarantee it would have been built anyhow.

Well lets let the new speculation formally begin for this location

with the Gallery and East Market its got to be either mostly residential or even better yet commercial

wouldn't a 1200 footer look grand there

Baconboy007 · #**5610** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

As expected,

Live! Casino wins casino license for South Philly location (just announced). (edit: kidphilly beat me!)

Boo!! Is this the one that was supposed to have a water park, theme park, space needle? How much do you want to bet that gets scrapped.

cafeguy · #**5611** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

Boo!! Is this the one that was supposed to have a water park, theme park, space needle? How much do you want to bet that gets scrapped.

No. this is the one that doesn't have any bells and whistles. Looks like they liked it because it was more realistic.

PHL10 · #**5612** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

It's too bad that the Market8 Tower will never be, although I suppose even if that location was picked, there's no guarantee it would have been built anyhow.

I really hated the idea of a Center City casino. I think between the Girard block being redeveloped and the addition of Century 21 to Strawbridges, the vacant Gimbel's lot keeps getting more and more valuable. It would have been a shame to plant a casino there IMO.

boxbot · #**5613** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 6:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHL10

I really hated the idea of a Center City casino. I think between the Girard block being redeveloped and the addition of Century 21 to Strawbridges, the vacant Gimbel's lot keeps getting more and more valuable. It would have been a shame to plant a casino there IMO.

All valid criticisms. On the other hand, it would have replaced a surface lot with a 550 foot tower.

iheartphilly · #**5614** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

As expected,

Live! Casino wins casino license for South Philly location (just announced). (edit: kidphilly beat me!)

Does this mean they can get rid of the ugly and outdated Holiday Inn hotel there?

Cro Burnham · #**5615** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

All valid criticisms. On the other hand, it would have replaced a surface lot with a 550 foot tower]

Cmon, man. You know that hotel tower would never have gotten built. All nonsense sales pitch. Market8 would have remained a lowrise slots barn for the local poor, who would be far more likely to sleep in cardboard boxes than hotel rooms.

Live! represents the most realistic way to get lots of suburban money spent in Philly with the least negative impact on city neighborhoods and poor people.

Thank god this is over. It's either Live! or nothing at all at this point, the two best possible outcomes possible in this situation.

Hopefully Sugarhouse will go belly up once live is up and running.

Insoluble · #**5616** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

All valid criticisms. On the other hand, it would have replaced a surface lot with a 550 foot tower.

True, but I don't think that lot is long for this world. Two years ago I might not have thought this, but right now so much is happening on Market East that it seems inevitable that this lot will be developed.

So back to Broad and Washington, was the meeting information only? Does he need zoning variances or will this be by right (please say by right!) Even if only phase 1 gets built, this will be a terrific improvement. If he only gets phase 1 thorough it will be way too high a parking to unit ration for something right on the BSL, so I hope both towers eventually get built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

I live a few blocks from here in GHo, and will undoubtedly use the retail portion of this project, but I have to question the feasibility of that much residential in a completely undesirable residential location.

That location is really only undesirable because of the huge vacant lots. Since this project is eating up one of the lots, it's actually removing one of the main drawbacks of the area. It's also right on the boarder of three highly desirable neighborhood and one up and coming neighborhood. This corner is pretty much a sure bet as long as it actually gets built.

relnahe · #**5617** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

...but I have to question the feasibility of that much residential in a completely undesirable residential location.

What came first...the chicken or the egg?

The reason why that immediate area is undesirable is because of the lack of residential units. It is difficult to make urban areas desirable if they lack proper residential density.

sayitaintso · #**5618** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Cmon, man. You know that hotel tower would never have gotten built. All nonsense sales pitch. Market8 would have remained a lowrise slots barn for the local poor, who would be far more likely to sleep in cardboard boxes than hotel rooms.

Live! represents the most realistic way to get lots of suburban money spent in Philly with the least negative impact on city neighborhoods and poor people.

Thank god this is over. It's either Live! or nothing at all at this point, the two best possible outcomes possible in this situation.

Hopefully Sugarhouse will go belly up once live is up and running.

Amen brotha

Kidphilly · #**5619** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

True, but I don't think that lot is long for this world. Two years ago I might not have thought this, but right now so much is happening on Market East that it seems inevitable that this lot will be developed.

So back to Broad and Washington, was the meeting information only? Does he need zoning variances or will this be by right (please say by right!) Even if only phase 1 gets built, this will be a terrific improvement. If he only gets phase 1 thorough it will be way too high a parking to unit ration for something right on the BSL, so I hope both towers eventually get built.

That location is really only undesirable because of the huge vacant lots. Since this project is eating up one of the lots, it's actually removing one of the main drawbacks of the area. It's also right on the boarder of three highly desirable neighborhood and one up and coming neighborhood. This corner is pretty much a sure bet as long as it actually gets built.

my understanding is this is a CMX5 5 (only one in S Philly) lot and the spec is a FAR of 8 the lot by right can be FAR 12 - so my take and was even asked at one point is this is build by right and he could go higher by right

He has been in discussions with the Hawthorne group and said will continue and seemed to offer up helping to fix up the playground on the 12 block of Carpenter

DIESELPOLO · #**5620** Posted **Nov 18, 2014, 8:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

Another set of ugly rectangular box towers.

Philadelphia: Pushing Architecture Forward

I live a few blocks from here in GHo, and will undoubtedly use the retail portion of this project, but I have to question the feasibility of that much residential in a completely undesirable residential location.

Agreed on the uninspiring highrise design.

The critical mass of residential the initial building would provide is logical to me though, so I'd have to disagree on that.