Calgary International Airport II

[tuffyy]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

I suspect for most Edmontonians it would easier to go through YVR, but depending on the flight times or if someone wants to drive to Calgary it might be hard to 'Say No to Calgary' ;-)

On days of operation I think the YYC flight will be attractive to YEG passengers.

I don't imagine this flight will start off daily, my guess is 2-3 times per week.

[Cage]

Follow on post to my twitter conversation with Bigtime.

Conversation started about BA plan to turn the YYC flight into a tag end LHR-YYC-YEG or triangle of the the three cites. For profitability reasons most airlines have discontinued tag end or triangle flights unless they also have fifth or six freedom rights to carry local traffic. With BA considering a tag end this means that YYC-LHR is on the bubble, corrective action is being contemplated to address profitability concerns. This is another datapoint that if something is to break on the Western Canada TATL market (FI into YEG, AC upguage FRA and LHR, KLM into YEG, KLM upguage YYC, AF into YVR, LH into YVR from MUC) it will be the exit of BA YYC-LHR.

Another interesting aspect of the BA tag end is that BA must be getting hosed by WS on the interline I prorates. Prorates are the charges airline A pays airline B to carry single ticketed pax from airline A. Standard interline agreement has ticket price split by proration of mileage of each segment to total mileage on the ticket routing. However I have heard that WS interline requirements have nonstandard prorate calculation. Basically WS demands more money from their inbound codeshare partners. If BA does a tag end YYC-YEG, it might reveal that WS prorate charges are more expensive than if BA flew their own aircraft.

A third interesting Tid bit came out during the presser annoucing AF to YVR and KLM to YEG. The line that caught my attention was something to the effect of "KLM will grow their YYC route together with their Westjet partners". Pure speculative on my part, but I could see summer 2016 playing out with WS international flying YYC-AMS daily in joint venture with second daily flight in KLM metal. Each airline would provide traffic feed beyond their respective hubs. This could also include WS international going onto YVR-AMS and YEG-AMS in coordination with KLM. Seems far fetched but if I was WS, one of the first things I would do prior to initiating international services, is to jack up the prorate charges for Airlines I intended to move out of the market. So if WS is looking to take BA YYC traffic, jacking up the prorates is the delcaration of war.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by tuffyy

I don't imagine this flight will start off daily, my guess is 2-3 times per week.

I'm looking for YUL-PEK 4x on AC 788 and YYC-PEK 3x on AC 788, all flights with CA codeshare and CA providing the coveted slot pair. This type of flight routing would require 2 aircraft from one airline, so I doubt that AC and CA would split the two routes. Also I don't think CA is all that interested in YYC and CA also recognizes they don't have the language skills or market presence for YUL.

Wouldn't mind a BA tag on to YEG. It's damn boring up here.

Seriously though, I hope they find a way to make it work.

[YYCspotter]

Couple of questions:

If BA eventually pulls the plug on YYC what are the chances that AC goes double daily 787 to LHR during the peak summer months?

Also I saw that LH is launching TPA with their higher density A343 (less J, more Y). The configuration of these a/c is perfect for the YYC market, however now that AC is using 77W i'm not sure if we will see the return of double daily FRA flights. How likely is it that this could happen?

[tuffyy]

I'm not sure that will happen.

Not that I'm putting down YYC at all but capacity to Europe seems to be right about where it is at the moment. As can be seen by the so so performance by BA for loads with LHR more capacity to Frankfurt may be detrimental since it hasn't been that long since LH pulled it's flights.

With TS now out of the western Canada-Germany charter market I could see Condor increase capacity for that sector but AC operating the 77W wouldn't bode well with a LH 340, maybe a 332 but that might be pushing it.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by YYCspotter

Couple of questions:

If BA eventually pulls the plug on YYC what are the chances that AC goes double daily 787 to LHR during the peak summer months?

Also I saw that LH is launching TPA with their higher density A343 (less J, more Y). The configuration of these a/c is perfect for the YYC market, however now that AC is using 77W i'm not sure if we will see the return of double daily FRA flights. How likely is it that this could happen?

Zero chance of double daily YYC-LHR on AC. They gave back the slots to UA. The second daily flight was provided by UA slot sublease. UA is now using the slot. Finally The AC double daily was 333 for 270 seats and 763 for 212 seats. The seat delta comparing double daily vs single 77W is about 25 business class seats.

Also there is no more commercially viable slots at FRA, so the chance of double daily FRA minimal. Besides I would much rather prefer summer flight to MUC, similar to YVR traffic pattern.

For the next major TATL destination, I am looking to IST, that is Istanbul for the IATA airport code challenged. Turkish would give us Mideast connections that we won't get from ME3 cause there is zero chance of them coming to town.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Argh, the spotter in me wants to see an Air China tail though.

Have you seen the China Air livery??? Makes euro white look exciting,

But for me, I mostly get excited about the megahub airport shots with row upon row for same airplane livery. 50 airplanes same livery screams world destination status.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by Cage

Have you seen the China Air livery??? Makes euro white look exciting,

But for me, I mostly get excited about the megahub airport shots with row upon row for same airplane livery. 50 airplanes same livery screams world destination status.

China Air(lines) and Air China are completely different. Don't mix them up. Personally, I find Air China's livery boring.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Cage

Have you seen the China Air livery??? Makes euro white look exciting,

But for me, I mostly get excited about the megahub airport shots with row upon row for same airplane livery. 50 airplanes same livery screams world destination status.

Yeah I have, the odd time they have diverted here when the Wx at YVR was 🞵🞵🞵🞵. I would just be nice from the spotters perspective to have another airline around versus AC and WS.


Air China A330-243 (B-6113) by BigtimeYYC, on Flickr

I think it's China Eastern that has that new HORRIBLE almost all white livery.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by holhm22

China Air(lines) and Air China are completely different. Don't mix them up. Personally, I find Air China's livery boring.

Air China's IATA code is CA, that is where my confusion originates. Apologies if I offended.

[tuffyy]

Chinese carriers are easily confused, Air China, China Airlines, China -----! The list goes on to cover every direction the country has and some...

[thegx]

^Except that China Airlines isn't a Chinese airline

[VIce]

Originally Posted by thegx

^Except that China Airlines isn't a Chinese airline

That Chinese, anyway.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by Cage

Air China's IATA code is CA, that is where my confusion originates. Apologies if I offended.

Nope, not offended at all, I just wanted to advise you. Yes, it is pretty confusing that it's CA since Air Canada took AC.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by holhm22

Nope, not offended at all, I just wanted to advise you. Yes, it is pretty confusing that it's CA since Air Canada took AC.

A bit of history why Air China is "CA."

The origin of Air China is the Civil Aviation Administration of China or CAAC for short. When CAAC operated as an airline as it did when it first started flying to YVR in the 1980s its airline code was CA. It was in 1987 when the CAAC split into six different airlines. Air China inherited the code CA when this occurred and voila...

Air China, China Eastern and China Southern are the only three airlines left from the original CAAC. The other three have merged one each into CA, MU and CZ.

[Johnny Aussie]

Part of the ever growing cargo scene...

http://www.yyc.com/News/tabid/91/article...ke-Off-with-another-New-Development.aspx

[Johnny Aussie]

According to this press release, DL will increase the frequency on YYC-SEA. No other details available yet.

http://news.delta.com/2014-11-19-Delta-a...ramento-Ketchikan-and-Sitka-from-Seattle

[Bokimon]

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.2108860

Live streaming right now of the An225 departure out of YYZ, currently holding on rwy23
Better be quick, you got 4 mins.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

According to this press release, DL will increase the frequency on YYC-SEA. No other details available yet.

http://news.delta.com/2014-11-19-Delta-a...ramento-Ketchikan-and-Sitka-from-Seattle

That's excellent news, wonder how many more flights they'll give us each day?