PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[christof]

Originally Posted by summersm343

More details on Camden practice facility
Includes 9-foot-high signage and a helipad
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...en-project9ft-signs-helipad-planned.html

What the hell does a basketball practice facility need a helipad for? Are you going to fly players in for practice. We are talking about practice...

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by christof

What the hell does a basketball practice facility need a helipad for? Are you going to fly players in for practice. We are talking about practice...

Players? No.

Billionaire execs who work out of Manhattan? Yes.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by McBane

The new zoning code still sucks if a 5 story building on Walnut Street needs a variance. It's still totally unrealistic. If the variance was allowed, then why wasn't the issue just accounted for when the new zoning code was written? I thought one of the main reasons for the overhaul was to cut the red tape and speed up the building process. I'm not seeing any evidence of this. But maybe less homeowners are needing variances for decks, fencing, and things like that. Who knows.

The code is updated but they still have to update the maps (i.e. decide which codes apply to which lots). It is an arduous process though some of it is simple translation (i.e. R2 in the old code now equals CMX5...I made this up, just using it as an example). The translation is the first step. The second is making sure individual neighborhoods/blocks/lots are zoned in a way that makes sense.

That is happening in some areas of the city bit by bit and none in others. Council (unsurprisingly) is trying to stall the remapping process because once it's done, they will no longer have as much of a say in individual decisions.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Players? No.

Billionaire execs who work out of Manhattan? Yes.

Exactly...Josh Harris wants to impress big time, he's a salesman... remember, he is a flip-this house type of businessman. He bought and flipped a bunch of businesses to make his billions, but same premise goes for the Sixers. Bought the Sixers for dirt cheap, is going to fix things up, and once team gets good (eventually)... sell for a massive profit. It's what he does. Flip this pro team!

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Exactly...Josh Harris wants to impress big time, he's a salesman... remember, he is a flip-this house type of businessman. He bought and flipped a bunch of businesses to make his billions, but same premise goes for the Sixers. Bought the Sixers for dirt cheap, is going to fix things up, and once team gets good (eventually)... sell for a massive profit. It's what he does. Flip this pro team!

He won't sell the sixers. Believe me.. its a passion project

[Londonee]

random question: Does anyone know if any of the architectural firms in the city have sleek, very cool, smart, chic office spaces?

Edit to add: or perhaps a firm located in a really cool historic building?

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by Londonee

random question: Does anyone know if any of the architectural firms in the city have sleek, very cool, smart, chic office spaces?

Edit to add: or perhaps a firm located in a really cool historic building?

I used to work on the same floor as QB3. They were in the Wolf Building on Callowhill. I don't think they're there anymore, but I always liked to peek in their office when the door was open. The building is a large, old warehouse and their office was pretty darn cool.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You get out your pom-poms and get a big I HEART PHL T-Shirt and root like hell for Philadelphia to become so popular economically and from a real-estate standpoint that there's a natural overflow into Camden. We've seen this happen in Hoboken, Jersety City, Oakland, etc.

They should also figure out an easier way to tie Camden's waterfront with Philadelphia. Whether it's the Gondola or some sort of footbridge, if they break down the barriers between the two cities, suddenly living in Camden has a geographic advantage relative to Center City over living, say, in East Passyunk. B/c the PATCO line is not integrated with SEPTA it's just not accessible for most people in the city--plus the main patco stop is blocks (scary blocks) from the waterfront.

The next thing they should do is work with developers and marketers to create a waterfront neighborhood. Call it something hip, like Jefferson Point, and get a little nexus from which to market and brand the area as safe, accessible, far cheaper than center city, and with some things to do. One of those slightly faux neighborhood development companies (like Kierland Commons in Phoenix, AZ) perhaps? They need to invest in the physical space down there to attract people and developers.

Yes, possibly. I'm honestly not sure what the best solution is for Camden. But I'm unconvinced that massive government bribes to businesses is it. I have doubts about whether those businesses will really do that much for the city overall as far as spurring higher end residential or retail development. Wilmington, DE is a case study. I work there, and most of it is still pretty rough. In my opinion, the state spent massive amounts of money trying to create a vital Riverfront district with decidedly mixed results.

It also begs the question of whether a revitalization of Camden should really be a focus of state funds. Camden is the 6th largest city and 12th largest municipality of the state. It's not an apples to apples comparison for a number of reasons, but it's sort of like Pennsylvania mounting a massive spending and revitalization effort for the cities of Bethlehem or Lancaster, which were once in much better shape when the steel industry was thriving.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yes, possibly. I'm honestly not sure what the best solution is for Camden. But I'm unconvinced that massive government bribes to businesses is it. I have doubts about whether those businesses will really do that much for the city overall as far as spurring higher end residential or retail development. Wilmington, DE is a case study. I work there, and most of it is still pretty rough. In my opinion, the state spent massive amounts of money trying to create a vital Riverfront district with decidedly mixed results.

It also begs the question of whether a revitalization of Camden should really be a focus of state funds. Camden is the 6th largest city and 12th largest municipality of the state. It's not an apples to apples comparison for a number of reasons, but it's sort of like Pennsylvania mounting a massive spending and revitalization effort for the cities of Bethlehem or Lancaster, which were once in much better shape when the steel industry was thriving.

Correct. Camden is tough, it was a bedrock industrial/manufacturing town. When that left, everything left. Wilmington, DE is not really a proper comparison because Wilm. will always have a decent corporate presence as long as the state has those ultra corporate friendly tax laws and of course, the Court of Chancery - which might be the most respected corporate law courthouse in the country. And Wilmington has been a corporate friendly haven since the 1980's ...so there's a history to it. Plus, not all industry left. DuPont, although smaller, is still headquartered in Wilmington and still a big time employer statewide. Camden is still basically at square one.
(I also agree though, outside of - Trolley Square, Rockford Park/Bancroft Parkway area, and the Riverfront, ....look out - some scary hoods in Wilma).

And the Riverfront - you're right. Been going on for 20 years, it's nice now, but most of those townhouses and condos and apts are vacant. It's like any city revitalization/gentrification .... unless the young people really want to live, work, and play there ... it's going to be tough going.

[josef]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You get out your pom-poms and get a big I HEART PHL T-Shirt and root like hell for Philadelphia to become so popular economically and from a real-estate standpoint that there's a natural overflow into Camden. We've seen this happen in Hoboken, Jersety City, Oakland, etc.

Right, and I think there's a critical mass of people doing that now. Philly has more supporters than it's had in a generation, I think. Howard Gillette, the Camden After the Fall author, wrote an article for Newsworks about the potential for spillover from Center City's increasingly expensive markets in the spring after plans were announced for 500 Walnut, actually. The question then comes though, at what points does it make sense to spill over into Camden and not Kensington. At what point does a 7-minute PATCO ride outweigh a 20 minute El ride, etc. It's a good premise, and you're right, it's why JC, Hoboken, anything like that's booming today.

Originally Posted by Londonee

They should also figure out an easier way to tie Camden's waterfront with Philadelphia. Whether it's the Gondola or some sort of footbridge, if they break down the barriers between the two cities, suddenly living in Camden has a geographic advantage relative to Center City over living, say, in East Passyunk. B/c the PATCO line is not integrated with SEPTA it's just not accessible for most people in the city--plus the main patco stop is blocks (scary blocks) from the waterfront.

Oh I definitely agree. SEPTA does easily integrate via transfers at 12-13th, 15-16th, and 8th & Market, but I get what you mean. And those blocks between City Hall and the waterfront, I'm really hoping those fill in as Rutgers, Rowan, and Cooper build out in the future. There're already plans for building on some empty lots downtown, I believe a nursing school and possibly a business school. Increasing foot traffic is the first step in activating those blocks.

Originally Posted by Londonee

The next thing they should do is work with developers and marketers to create a waterfront neighborhood. Call it something hip, like Jefferson Point, and get a little nexus from which to market and brand the area as safe, accessible, far cheaper than center city, and with some things to do. One of those slightly faux neighborhood development companies (like Kierland Commons in Phoenix, AZ) perhaps? They need to invest in the physical space down there to attract people and developers.

Interesting you should mention that, a few weeks ago I was looking into who owned some of the parking lots on the waterfront right now, and reached out to a company I traced to one of the holding companies. To my surprise they actually got back to me and said they were working on plans to develop the site and "will begin some time next year." So, we'll see if that happens. But it sounds like they're going the Londonee-approved route.

[josef]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yes, possibly. I'm honestly not sure what the best solution is for Camden. But I'm unconvinced that massive government bribes to businesses is it. I have doubts about whether those businesses will really do that much for the city overall as far as spurring higher end residential or retail development. Wilmington, DE is a case study. I work there, and most of it is still pretty rough. In my opinion, the state spent massive amounts of money trying to create a vital Riverfront district with decidedly mixed results.

I've thought of that too; what if they get all these companies building up downtown but it's still empty at night and everything around it's still a mess? Is that "success"? It's an interesting question. Though, I have heard that there are efforts to get Wilmington to be more of an after-work city and get in on the revitalization of cities thing (though someone should tell the local schools that).

Originally Posted by jsbrook

It also begs the question of whether a revitalization of Camden should really be a focus of state funds. Camden is the 6th largest city and 12th largest municipality of the state. It's not an apples to apples comparison for a number of reasons, but it's sort of like Pennsylvania mounting a massive spending and revitalization effort for the cities of Bethlehem or Lancaster, which were once in much better shape when the steel industry was thriving.

Definitely understand, but the current tax breaks are coming from a program that was created/retooled because they were previously only going to North Jersey companies locating outside NY. These deals are the result of a lowering of the investment required to trigger the breaks, or something like that. So I think it's an issue of spreading more money around instead of concentrating it up north.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The code is updated but they still have to update the maps (i.e. decide which codes apply to which lots). It is an arduous process though some of it is simple translation (i.e. R2 in the old code now equals CMX5...I made this up, just using it as an example). The translation is the first step. The second is making sure individual neighborhoods/blocks/lots are zoned in a way that makes sense.

That is happening in some areas of the city bit by bit and none in others. Council (unsurprisingly) is trying to stall the remapping process because once it's done, they will no longer have as much of a say in individual decisions.

Ahah, got it. Thanks.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by josef

I've thought of that too; what if they get all these companies building up downtown but it's still empty at night and everything around it's still a mess? Is that "success"? It's an interesting question. Though, I have heard that there are efforts to get Wilmington to be more of an after-work city and get in on the revitalization of cities thing (though someone should tell the local schools that).




Definitely understand, but the current tax breaks are coming from a program that was created/retooled because they were previously only going to North Jersey companies locating outside NY. These deals are the result of a lowering of the investment required to trigger the breaks, or something like that. So I think it's an issue of spreading more money around instead of concentrating it up north.

Exactly right. The first go around for this program went almost entirely to new Brunswick, newark, jersey city etc. This time, norcross held up the legislation to ensure camden gets $$. Camden has the most powerful man in nj on their side...

[PhillyPantsAC]

Originally Posted by Londonee

random question: Does anyone know if any of the architectural firms in the city have sleek, very cool, smart, chic office spaces?

Edit to add: or perhaps a firm located in a really cool historic building?

KieranTimberlake is in the process of moving into the old Ortlieb's bottling plant in the Northern Liberties:

http://www.kierantimberlake.com/posts/view/271

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by PhillyPantsAC

KieranTimberlake is in the process of moving into the old Ortlieb's bottling plant in the Northern Liberties:

http://www.kierantimberlake.com/posts/view/271

Thanks, I've had them in mind and it's a great project - do you happen know when that space will be finished?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

random question: Does anyone know if any of the architectural firms in the city have sleek, very cool, smart, chic office spaces?

Edit to add: or perhaps a firm located in a really cool historic building?

Kieran Timberlake is about to open in the old Ortliebs Bottling Plant.

I'm sure it will be really nice.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Correct. Camden is tough, it was a bedrock industrial/manufacturing town. When that left, everything left. Wilmington, DE is not really a proper comparison because Wilm. will always have a decent corporate presence as long as the state has those ultra corporate friendly tax laws and of course, the Court of Chancery - which might be the most respected corporate law courthouse in the country. And Wilmington has been a corporate friendly haven since the 1980's ...so there's a history to it. Plus, not all industry left. DuPont, although smaller, is still headquartered in Wilmington and still a big time employer statewide. Camden is still basically at square one.
(I also agree though, outside of - Trolley Square, Rockford Park/Bancroft Parkway area, and the Riverfront, ....look out - some scary hoods in Wilma).

And the Riverfront - you're right. Been going on for 20 years, it's nice now, but most of those townhouses and condos and apts are vacant. It's like any city revitalization/gentrification .... unless the young people really want to live, work, and play there ... it's going to be tough going.

Agreed. Wilmington's not a perfect comparison. It is in better shape than Camden because it is at the forefront of coporate law (and to a large degree patent and bankruptcy law) and does have some loyal industry. I guess my point there really was that the money the state has thrown at revitalization (as opposed to business friendly policies) has not done much because it misses the mark as to what will attract people to live and set up shop/retail/small businesses there.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by josef

Definitely understand, but the current tax breaks are coming from a program that was created/retooled because they were previously only going to North Jersey companies locating outside NY. These deals are the result of a lowering of the investment required to trigger the breaks, or something like that. So I think it's an issue of spreading more money around instead of concentrating it up north.

That's a fair point that it's really an allocation issue rather than 'new' money. I just don't know how effective it will be.

[phillyaggie]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

I didn't want to be the first to post it publicly. But it will be even more significant than the article implies. I'm glad I can talk about this now - I've been keeping my mouth shut since the beginning of summer!

Really?

Because I saw the news of the IPO and the company's recent history.

Looks like yet another company that got hollowed out by the private equity/hedge fund types...in this instance, Carlyle Group...

They bought it from DuPont only last year for only $1.35 billion but tripled the money on it already...while loading the company with huge debt...meaning, they paid themselves and are now leaving the company to public shareholders...who are more like the proverbial bag holders. The ownership of the company got shifted in large measure from stock owners to debt owners. The company is valued at around $5 billion now, with shareholders owning only about $1 billion worth of the company, and the rest owned by debt owners... not a good scenario for the financial health of the company, generally speaking.

The IPO money isn't going to Axalta, it's going to the selling shareholders, which is Carlyle Group. Carlyle will still hold more than 3/4th of the company stock after the IPO.

So the company isn't going to be flush with new cash, rather it is burdened with more than $3 billion in debt. For a company that only made about $11 million in profits all of last year, that's a lot of debt to pay off.

No wonder they're asking for government handouts to build a new coatings plant in the Navy Yard-- an already tax-advantaged location to begin with.


question is...how much money is PhiLaw making on this deal?! perhaps a Philly skyscraperpage regulars happy hour, first round of drinks on PhiLaw! haha

[summersm343]

13th and Spruce - Parker-Spruce Hotel

Any chance this is going to be redeveloped finally? Doubt it.

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/1...news-for-the-parkerspruce-hotel.php#more