Calgary International Airport II

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Cage

That reasoning might fly for the majority of differences between mainline and regional flying, however in this case it just does not pass muster. The "application" process for mainline was very quick an painless, from what i am told. Basically the application was to change the Transport Canada approved operating manuals. What the airlines did not have to accomplish is prove that each device would not harm aircraft operations (for example individual tests for blackberry Bold, Torch, 9800, and Apple 4, 4s, 5, 5s).

My thoughts are there must be another unstated reason why the regional airlines are not allowing electronics during all phases of the flight.



You might be onto something Full Mountain. The advantage that a mainline FA has is that electronics must be checked just during the boarding process. Mainline aircraft fly high enough that cell phones will not get a signal so inflight the FA does not have to worry about transmitting electronics.

The regional FA however, has to worry about transmitting and receiving electronics at all phases because the airplane flies a lower altitudes. It could be the Regional airlines have looked into the additional duties placed on their FA group and determined the additional duties are not compatible with the 1-2 person FA crew.

I was thinking around the pax/FA ratio being higher on the Q's than the larger A/C. Doesn't seem to be the case looking at the seats.

You are still allowed to use your devices once you are airborne (seatbelt light off) just not during take off and landing, seems that any interference would be similar on both A/C types unless Bombardier hasn't completed the required testing. It should be noted that I was on a Beech 1900 out of Bakersfield Ca that had a similar restriction, so there may be a certain level of interference resistance that the large A/C have that doesn't cover the smaller ones.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

This could actually help land a YYC-PEK route....

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=827

Originally Posted by Acey

My interpretation of it, slot pending, is that CA will be happier to let AC fly it on their own metal and if it works out, then they make some money. Doesn't sound like CA would be the first to launch it under any circumstance.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Exactly... With a JV, CA would be much more likely to handover those coveted slots to AC to fly the route. Perfect route for a 763 (if they stick around for a bit longer) or possibly even a 788.

Guess we will have to wait until 2016 regardless.

The JV agreement between AC and CA will be mechanism that results in YYC-PEK becoming reality. CA will give AC the commercially viable slots for new routes and Ac will send over proportionate share of profits. Additionally the JV appears to include beyond revenue on both sides of the pacific. AC should be able to market ORD-YYC-PEK-CTU with revenues and costs going into AC/CA JV. UA might be pretty cheesed off as they would now have competition for their SFO-CTU n/s.

The centrepiece will be new YYC international terminal which is built for transit with out visa and other forms of international to international transfers. Once the new terminal is open, YYC will be in equal or better footing than YVR (don't tell the folks over this over at The YVR SSP forum).

Canadian competition bureau could be the wrench that derails this whole plan. CCB head is the same guy that derailed AC-UA transborder JV by carving out any hub to hub traffic on reasons of collusion. However a little birdie has told me the new deputy commissioner is coming from Dept of Finance and is ex Flaherty cohort. Hopefully the Harper govt is able to give a little behind the scenes nudge to CCB to not derail the AC/CA JV.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Cage

The centrepiece will be new YYC international terminal which is built for transit with out visa and other forms of international to international transfers. Once the new terminal is open, YYC will be in equal or better footing than YVR (don't tell the folks over this over at The YVR SSP forum).

Mum's the word!

So painful reading some of the threads over at airliners.net and flyertalk right now.

Just the sheer suggestion that YYC-PEK might actually become a reality brings up so much nonsense.

Nothing is a given but most likely this will happen... and the JV will be the catalyst. If not in 2015, then 2016.

The only thing is YVR still has a huge O&D advantage and if DL is able to draw more via SEA it can make it tougher getting a bit more Asian routes after solidifying NRT and getting PEK. I believe our market is not quite big enough for much more...yet.

[Bigtime]

Argh, the spotter in me wants to see an Air China tail though.

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Argh, the spotter in me wants to see an Air China tail though.

Same. I do think YYC will see a few Asia flights beyond Tokyo soon though with the new terminal. Just a matter of time, becoming a big global business city, plus large asian migration here, plus increasing amount of asian tourists flocking to Banff and area.

[RedStar]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Co...light+could+imminent/10375200/story.html

The deal, announced over the weekend by Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Beijing, is the first step toward creating a revenue sharing joint venture between the two airlines. Pending regulatory approval, the deal would see greater co-operation between the two carriers on routes between Canada and China — with the goal being to stimulate traffic growth between the countries.

“It’s a big change,” said Stephan Poirier, senior vice-president and chief commercial officer with the Calgary Airport Authority, on Wednesday. “Now it looks like within a few weeks, a few months, we should have a big announcement.”

A non-stop flight between Calgary and Beijing has been on top of the local airport authority’s wish list for years. Calgary currently only has one non-stop flight to Asia (an Air Canada service to Tokyo), and local business groups and tourism officials have been clamouring for direct access to the vast Chinese market.

Air Canada has been working closely with the Calgary International Airport on the Beijing file since 2010, but the challenge has been securing a landing slot at Beijing airport. To make a flight from the relatively small market of Calgary commercially viable, it would need to land in Beijing at a time of day that would enable passengers to connect to other destinations — and the Beijing airport right now is so busy that there are no feasible time slots available.

The hurdle seemed so insurmountable that Calgary airport officials had even started to explore the possibility of landing at a different Chinese city instead. But the new deal between Air Canada and Air China allows for increased co-operation in the areas of scheduling and airport operations, making a much-coveted Beijing route a possibility again.

“If it’s a Chinese carrier operating the route in co-operation with Air Canada, the slot issue with Beijing disappears. Chinese carriers have all the slots (at Beijing International Airport), Air Canada only has two daily,” Poirier said.

[Canadian74]

Good news, someone post it in the YEG thread

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

Good news, someone post it in the YEG thread

I did so last week...

[YYCspotter]

Originally Posted by RedStar

“It’s a big change,” said Stephan Poirier, senior vice-president and chief commercial officer with the Calgary Airport Authority, on Wednesday. “Now it looks like within a few weeks, a few months, we should have a big announcement.”

“If it’s a Chinese carrier operating the route in co-operation with Air Canada, the slot issue with Beijing disappears. Chinese carriers have all the slots (at Beijing International Airport), Air Canada only has two daily,” Poirier said.[/I]

Air China spring/summer 2015? from the first quote it seems like they are already a fairly long way into the planning of the route if they should be ready to make an announcement in a few months.

[yyc_engineer]

What about starting with direct, same plane service YYC-NRT-PEK? Or would that be too out of the way? I am wondering what the merits of something like this would be? I dunno if this even makes sense, just thought I would throw it out there. Slow day on SSP CIA II thread...

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Don't see any note of fifth freedom rights in the Air Services Agreement https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/japan

Can't see such a route being viable without it. Plus Air Canada is using wide bodies domestically to get air frame utilization rates up.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ Don't see any note of fifth freedom rights in the Air Services Agreement https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/japan

Can't see such a route being viable without it. Plus Air Canada is using wide bodies domestically to get air frame utilization rates up.

Interesting. Yeah I was assuming 5th freedom between PEK and NRT. That's too bad, they could probably do well between Japan and China. I'm sure people would book the route just for the novelty of flying on Air Canada, both J and Y.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

What about starting with direct, same plane service YYC-NRT-PEK? Or would that be too out of the way? I am wondering what the merits of something like this would be? I dunno if this even makes sense, just thought I would throw it out there. Slow day on SSP CIA II thread...

If they did that, I wouldn't bother with the route - it'd be faster for me to fly to Canada via Vancouver. However, for direct PEK-YYC, I'd probably be willing to take the HSR up to Beijing and fly to Calgary from there.

Still wish there'd be a PVG flight, but a direct Calgary-China flight of any kind is still worth it.

[Doug_Cgy]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ Don't see any note of fifth freedom rights in the Air Services Agreement https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/japan

Can't see such a route being viable without it. Plus Air Canada is using wide bodies domestically to get air frame utilization rates up.

Are you talking YYC - PEK? I'm easily confused today (case of the Mondays on a Wednesday)

I feel like Calgary to Beijing would do quite well. With our large chinese population looking for a non-stop route, and interest in Alberta tourism, I think it would succeed just fine in both directions.

[Coldrsx]

'Still wish there'd be a PVG flight, but a direct Calgary-China flight of any kind is still worth it.'

This, for i'd still head to YVR instead of YYC-PEK-PVG.

But either way, great for Calgary and Alberta.

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

What about starting with direct, same plane service YYC-NRT-PEK? Or would that be too out of the way? I am wondering what the merits of something like this would be? I dunno if this even makes sense, just thought I would throw it out there. Slow day on SSP CIA II thread...

Not that it's out of the way, but it'd make more sense to fly YYC-YVR-PEK, and not unnecessarily stop in Japan.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ Don't see any note of fifth freedom rights in the Air Services Agreement https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/japan

Can't see such a route being viable without it. Plus Air Canada is using wide bodies domestically to get air frame utilization rates up.

Lack of fifth freedom is the primary reason why YYC-NRT-PEK would not work.

Secondarily And unique to this situation, but AC is the only North American airline with commercially viable slots at HND. Also YVR and YYZ are only north American destinations with daytime HND flights.

The US - Japan relationship with commercial aviation has been strained in the last few years since JAL declared bankruptcy. The DL and UA hubs at NRT are a relic if the MacArthur/SCAP era when USA rebuilt Japan. Japan has been keen to get UA and DL to dismantle their beyond NRT fifth freedom flights. If AC decided that it wanted to exercise or apply for fifth freedom from NRT,the daytime HND slots would likely be the first casualty.

[holhm22]

Hey guys, the show about YYC I told everyone about (Flight Plan: YYC), has times announced for reruns. Check it out here

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

If they did that, I wouldn't bother with the route - it'd be faster for me to fly to Canada via Vancouver. However, for direct PEK-YYC, I'd probably be willing to take the HSR up to Beijing and fly to Calgary from there.

Still wish there'd be a PVG flight, but a direct Calgary-China flight of any kind is still worth it.

You never know.... 10 years ago I would never have thought YYC would have direct flights to either Tokyo or Beijing. Anything seems like a possibility these days.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

'Still wish there'd be a PVG flight, but a direct Calgary-China flight of any kind is still worth it.'

This, for i'd still head to YVR instead of YYC-PEK-PVG.

But either way, great for Calgary and Alberta.

I suspect for most Edmontonians it would easier to go through YVR, but depending on the flight times or if someone wants to drive to Calgary it might be hard to 'Say No to Calgary' ;-)