Calgary International Airport II

You could look at it another way, they're moving toward better CASM, and the best way to achieve that is more seats in the airplanes. Maybe NRT will be up to a 77W by 2019.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

I don't think AC is planning to keep the 767 in mainline fleet after 787 deliveries are complete.
There was a report that showed the medium and long term fleet plan for AC and ACR, but I can't find it right now.
And AC seems to be moving towards larger aircraft - they reduced the no. of 788 to 15, now they are adding more seats in 777s and they bought 7 more 77Ws including today's 2, instead of smaller 787s.
This means in a few years the smallest capacity widebody in the AC fleet will be the 788 (251 seats). Even Rouge 767s will have more seats.

Couple of clarifying points,

AC order 2 additional 77W and will fit the aircraft with 28-30 international business pods between doors 1 and 2 plus premium economy cabin high density seating for economy much like the 5 current 77w high density configured aircraft.

The five current high density 77w will have the 36 business class seats replaced with 28-30 new generation business class pods that currently on 788. Seat capacity on the high density 77w will go from 458 to 450 with the loss of 8 business class seats.

The other 13 77w and 6 77L will be reconfigured into 40 new generation business class pods, the mini business class cabin behind door 2 will remain. Additionally the economy cabin will be shrunk length wise to account for the introduction of 24 premium economy seats. Additionally the economy cabin will grow to 320 seats with the introduction of 3X4X3 seat cross section. Total seat capacity on the 77w will be about 400 seats. I have not yet calculated the total seat capacity for the 77L.

The new pilot contract allows AC to grow the rouge subsidiary to 25 763s, up from 20 aircraft. However total rouge fleet remains at 50 aircraft. The new fleet plan has AC retaining all 763 aircraft somewhere in the fleet. Initially 5 763s will have new mission transferred to domestic and transborder mainline fleet.

The 319 fleet will be somewhere between 8 and 13 aircraft, dependant upon whether AC transfers 5 more 763s to rouge.

Twenty E90s will leave the fleet beginning about 1 year from now. 8 airplanes exit between October and December 2015 with an additional 12 aircraft to exit in first half 2016. The e90 is being replaced by 5 narrowbody airbus and 5 763s. The 763s were to exit the fleet in first half 2016 as additional 788 airframes arrived. These are the 763s that get transferred to North American mission as mentioned above.

The 333 was initially supposed to exit the fleet in 2015 and 2016 as 789 entered the fleet. The 333 will remain with mainline and get premium economy cabin added, likely aft of door 2 where the current business class mini cabin is located. This will reduce business class seats by about 12 to accommodate 21 premium economy seats.

Overall AC will have 82 widebody aircraft at their disposal in December 2016.

Finally, it was mentioned on the conference call that AC got significant greater flexibility in the new pilot contract for more regional capacity purchase agreements for aircraft under 76 seats. What Will become of this new flexibility remains to be seen.

[Surrealplaces]

I'm just waiting to board my flight to Melbourne. First time for me on one of the 787-9s

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Future YYC is going to be 737 + Q400 dominated. Any ideas what equip AC is planning on putting on YYC-YVR once the E90's and A319/20's are gone? I'm guessing all 737's?

My AC fleet crystal ball only goes put to early 2017, but I have been able to figure put so far.

Hop in your Delorean its back to the future for widebody transcontinental flying with 2-4 763 round trips to YYZ. This will I coincide with flights that meet ifp with YYZ European departures plus the red eye flight will continue as widebody.

Embraers will continue on YVR flights plus potentially YOW mid day departure. YYZ and YUL will become airbus narrowbody or better.

I expect NRT to go over to 788 by this time next year. This could see Hawaii turn rouge but I don't know how this will work out schedule wise.

I expect the AC LHR flight will remain season mainline 763. The LHR and FRA flights from YYC will remain 777 throughout the summer season. One could move back to 333 but I think AC will keep the 333 YYZ bound, so potential that AC uses 789 instead.

I don't expect AC to put narrowbody rouge into more traditional WS transborder markets such as SAN, PSP, sun charter etc. perhaps from YVR to san, and psp but that's about it. One thing to remember is that AC rouge all ready haste entry 319s in the current schedule, so only 5-8 more aircraft to transfer. The bulk of rouge expansion will be 763 long haul flying.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

I'm just waiting to board my flight to Melbourne. First time for me on one of the 787-9s

Enjoy your trip downunder..

Should be a nice warm 34 for you tomorrow then a coolish change to some decent low 20s days all week.

I haven't been on a 789 yet... Only a 788! Enjoy!

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

I'm just waiting to board my flight to Melbourne. First time for me on one of the 787-9s

Lucky lucky lucky, take some pics of that new bird!

Originally Posted by Cage

My AC fleet crystal ball only goes put to early 2017, but I have been able to figure put so far.

Hop in your Delorean its back to the future for widebody transcontinental flying with 2-4 763 round trips to YYZ. This will I coincide with flights that meet ifp with YYZ European departures plus the red eye flight will continue as widebody.

Embraers will continue on YVR flights plus potentially YOW mid day departure. YYZ and YUL will become airbus narrowbody or better.

I expect NRT to go over to 788 by this time next year. This could see Hawaii turn rouge but I don't know how this will work out schedule wise.

I expect the AC LHR flight will remain season mainline 763. The LHR and FRA flights from YYC will remain 777 throughout the summer season. One could move back to 333 but I think AC will keep the 333 YYZ bound, so potential that AC uses 789 instead.

I don't expect AC to put narrowbody rouge into more traditional WS transborder markets such as SAN, PSP, sun charter etc. perhaps from YVR to san, and psp but that's about it. One thing to remember is that AC rouge all ready haste entry 319s in the current schedule, so only 5-8 more aircraft to transfer. The bulk of rouge expansion will be 763 long haul flying.

Great analysis as always Cage!

Do you think Rouge widebody may try to make an entrance in YYC to counter some potential WS 767 routes?

[Johnny Aussie]

This could actually help land a YYC-PEK route....

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=827

My interpretation of it, slot pending, is that CA will be happier to let AC fly it on their own metal and if it works out, then they make some money. Doesn't sound like CA would be the first to launch it under any circumstance.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

My interpretation of it, slot pending, is that CA will be happier to let AC fly it on their own metal and if it works out, then they make some money. Doesn't sound like CA would be the first to launch it under any circumstance.

Exactly... With a JV, CA would be much more likely to handover those coveted slots to AC to fly the route. Perfect route for a 763 (if they stick around for a bit longer) or possibly even a 788.

Guess we will have to wait until 2016 regardless.

[MrBigStuff]

Is there anyone out there that would know how many AN 125's have been built and/or are still being built???

[VIce]

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff

Is there anyone out there that would know how many AN 125's have been built and/or are still being built???

Google says 55 have been built.

[Full Mountain]

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the electronics restrictions on the Q400's (AC & WS)? The rest of their fleets allow them gate to gate, why are the Q's different?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the electronics restrictions on the Q400's (AC & WS)? The rest of their fleets allow them gate to gate, why are the Q's different?

First reason is because relaxation of electronics restrictions is done on an airline operating certificate basis; so Jazz Aviation, Sky Regional AC and and Encore have to apply separately from their larger affiliates.

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the electronics restrictions on the Q400's (AC & WS)? The rest of their fleets allow them gate to gate, why are the Q's different?

At the moment the regulations still restrict their use. Operators are allowed to apply for exemptions that allow for the use of electronics gate to gate. Both WestJet and Air Canada have these exemptions. The Q400s out here are operated by Jazz and WestJet Encore. Both companies operate under separate operating certificates than their mainline partners so an exemption received by one company will not automatically transfer to the other. Chances are Jazz and Encore just haven't gotten around to the application process yet.

Edit: Lol. Scooped. Ya, what Cage said.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Cage

First reason is because relaxation of electronics restrictions is done on an airline operating certificate basis; so Jazz Aviation, Sky Regional AC and and Encore have to apply separately from their larger affiliates.

Originally Posted by outoftheice

At the moment the regulations still restrict their use. Operators are allowed to apply for exemptions that allow for the use of electronics gate to gate. Both WestJet and Air Canada have these exemptions. The Q400s out here are operated by Jazz and WestJet Encore. Both companies operate under separate operating certificates than their mainline partners so an exemption received by one company will not automatically transfer to the other. Chances are Jazz and Encore just haven't gotten around to the application process yet.

Edit: Lol. Scooped. Ya, what Cage said.

Ah, that makes sense, was wondering if it had to do with the number of flight attendants.

[Riise]

So with BA's rumoured inclusion of YEG, would they still be flying between LHR and YYC non-stop both ways? I can see AC looking at me and licking their lips.

[Blader]

GreaterMontréal posted this link in the Canada airport thread quoting the Shanghai Daily

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=251576

[YYCguys]

When driving past the new terminal today, between the new terminal and the junction of Airport Road/Barlow Trail, there is a strange building under construction. Does anyone know what this building is? Kinda looks like a hanger, but such an odd place for it.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Chances are Jazz and Encore just haven't gotten around to the application process yet.

That reasoning might fly for the majority of differences between mainline and regional flying, however in this case it just does not pass muster. The "application" process for mainline was very quick an painless, from what i am told. Basically the application was to change the Transport Canada approved operating manuals. What the airlines did not have to accomplish is prove that each device would not harm aircraft operations (for example individual tests for blackberry Bold, Torch, 9800, and Apple 4, 4s, 5, 5s).

My thoughts are there must be another unstated reason why the regional airlines are not allowing electronics during all phases of the flight.

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Ah, that makes sense, was wondering if it had to do with the number of flight attendants.

You might be onto something Full Mountain. The advantage that a mainline FA has is that electronics must be checked just during the boarding process. Mainline aircraft fly high enough that cell phones will not get a signal so inflight the FA does not have to worry about transmitting electronics.

The regional FA however, has to worry about transmitting and receiving electronics at all phases because the airplane flies a lower altitudes. It could be the Regional airlines have looked into the additional duties placed on their FA group and determined the additional duties are not compatible with the 1-2 person FA crew.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Great analysis as always Cage!

Do you think Rouge widebody may try to make an entrance in YYC to counter some potential WS 767 routes?

Thanks Bigtime.

My thoughts on Rouge widebody and YYC are changing. Before AC Q3-2014 announcement, i was certain that AC rouge would make a big splash to counter anything that WS widebody would like to offer. However my thoughts are changing that rouge widebody will be much more limited in Western Canada.

Advantages to AC in keeping rouge widebody operations in Eastern Canada (YYZ).
(A) YYZ is a known market that has responded exceedingly well to AC rouge. Basically Why do Robbers go after banks? Cause that's where the money is!

(B) There is very little chance WS widebody is going to be successful in YUL due to language barriers. The YUL market is pretty much AC for the taking. YVR on the other hand is where WS international will be successful (in addition to YYC). Therefore a YYZ/YUL combination is operationally possible and likely more successful than YYC/YVR operation.

(C) AC rouge cannot plug every single opportunity in Canada and shut out WS widebody. However AC rouge can plug enough opportunities in YYZ for WS widebody to conclude that operating from YYC is much better. Because YYZ market is much larger than YYC, if I was at AC rouge, I would intentionally chose the larger YYZ market over the smaller YYC market.

With point C in mind, I now think that AC rouge will be limited in YYC to LAS, LAX, Hawaii (but a much larger operation than past season), and maybe some Mexico sun destinations.