Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Or a road in Calgary being called Edmonton Trail, and vice versa (just poking fun this morning....)

I'm guessing those roads are the remains of the original road between the two cities? What about Banff trail?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I have been thinking about the name of the road, since it won't be called Stoney Trail in the reserve.

I still think it's a really bad idea to have 1/4 of the ring road named differently from the other 3/4.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I think there are sensitivities about having a road through the reserve being named after another Nation that is unrelated to the Tsuu T'ina. I can't blame them really.

Neither can I. Naming a road through your territory after a completely different Nation, and one that (IIRC) was your enemy (at times). Not something I would like either.

[speedog]

Just call it the 201, does it really need a name? The main highway north to Edmonton is still the #2 to me, not some assigned name.

[CorporateWhore]

It should be called the Ring Road (or Ring Trail). It sounds nice, won't offend anyones sensibilities so you can keep it consistent all the way through, and tells newcomers exactly what it does.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

It should be called the Ring Road (or Ring Trail). It sounds nice, won't offend anyones sensibilities so you can keep it consistent all the way through, and tells newcomers exactly what it does.

And when the second ring road is built, then what? Should have been just the 201 all along - rolls nicely off of the tongue as well.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by speedog

And when the second ring road is built, then what? Should have been just the 201 all along - rolls nicely off of the tongue as well.

What second ring road? How many ring roads are you expecting?

[speedog]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

What second ring road? How many ring roads are you expecting?

Long range plans are already afoot - won't see the light of day while I'm on this big ball of dirt but the province is already working on things.

Edit - I knew I'd find some supporting documentation regarding a possible second ring road - link.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

What second ring road? How many ring roads are you expecting?

Originally Posted by speedog

Long range plans are already afoot - won't see the light of day while I'm on this big ball of dirt but the province is already working on things.

I met with Alberta Transportation once when they mentioned this, almost did a spit take. Alberta Transportation is completely out to lunch. We are a city that is 850km2 with a ring road. That is more than enough.

I would vote for any party that immediately kills any second ring road planning. Waste of time, money and based upon thinking from the 1970s. Even a city of 4 million people doesn't need two ring roads. If it does, it has screwed up regional planning in such a bad way, it should not be allowed to exist.

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, one projection has Calgary's census division housing 2,857,830 souls by 2041. Even if you are able to constrain residential footprint growth somewhat (which will be helped by the CRP density requirements), you have industrial growth and travel between communities.

[CorporateWhore]

The only other ring the city/province should be discussing is the LRT wheel line to connect all the spokes! That or an inner-city tram ring to give the inner-city communities an easier way to move around.

But another road ring outside of the current one? Even if its in 50 years from now, no thank you...it would signify a city that lost it's way somewhere.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Well, one projection has Calgary's census division housing 2,857,830 souls by 2041. Even if you are able to constrain residential footprint growth somewhat (which will be helped by the CRP density requirements), you have industrial growth and travel between communities.

Ok. So explain to me why that necessitates a 2nd ring road?

Our problem is not a lack of roads, it's how inefficiently we use them.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by fusili

Ok. So explain to me why that necessitates a 2nd ring road?

Our problem is not a lack of roads, it's how inefficiently we use them.

Commercial and through traffic won't have any alternatives. Assembling the land is a good idea.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Doug

Commercial and through traffic won't have any alternatives. Assembling the land is a good idea.

They have a ring road. Isn't that what it is used for: commercial and through traffic?

[fusili]

Let me put it this way: Rotterdam is the largest port in the entire world. It sees 450 million tons of goods move through it each year. That is more than a million tons a day. It serves a market of ~350 million people (essentially all of western Europe). It handles that level of freight, which is orders of magnitude greater than what Calgary will ever see, it does so at the heart of a region of 7 million people, and with more through traffic than we could imagine. And it does so on the A15 which is 6 lanes of road.

Why we think we need 2 separate ring roads, each 8 lanes, for a much lower level of freight and through traffic is beyond me. Learn to use your infrastructure efficiently.

[suburbia]

Anyone know the expected timeline for the ring road's next phase intersection / bridge at 14th street NW?

This one will be key for Keystone Hills:
http://www.calgary.ca/_layouts/cocis/Dir...keystone-hills-asp.pdf&noredirect=1&sf=1

[MalcolmTucker]

^ That number includes the import of 98.324 million tons of oil to export 81.814 millions tons of refined product, along with a huge amount of sea going to river going transshipment.

It isn't a relevant number.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by fusili

Let me put it this way: Rotterdam is the largest port in the entire world. It sees 450 million tons of goods move through it each year. That is more than a million tons a day. It serves a market of ~350 million people (essentially all of western Europe). It handles that level of freight, which is orders of magnitude greater than what Calgary will ever see, it does so at the heart of a region of 7 million people, and with more through traffic than we could imagine. And it does so on the A15 which is 6 lanes of road.

And here I thought they used their freight rail infrastructure for most of that. FUsilly me!

"Port of Rotterdam - Dedicated European freight railway"
http://www.portofrotterdam.com/en/Business/about-the-port/connections/Pages/rail.aspx

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.8705168,4.4449892,679m/data=!3m1!1e3

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by fusili

I met with Alberta Transportation once when they mentioned this, almost did a spit take. Alberta Transportation is completely out to lunch. We are a city that is 850km2 with a ring road. That is more than enough.

I would vote for any party that immediately kills any second ring road planning. Waste of time, money and based upon thinking from the 1970s. Even a city of 4 million people doesn't need two ring roads. If it does, it has screwed up regional planning in such a bad way, it should not be allowed to exist.

It's insanity. The case for the size and scale of the first leg of the SWRR is dubious and shaky as is, with no published assumptions or projections on usage. Even the wildest projections would never see enough growth in traffic - and that is assuming we don't see another major mode shift in a 75 year timeframe - like we did over the past 75 years. To assume that we would need another one in 75 years doesn't make any sense.

I am no engineer but I assume all those extra long flyovers so 16-lanes of traffic can fit underneath cost more than building them over a 8-lane highway? What's the design life on a concrete bridge like these? Will we have to rebuild them anyways before the extra lanes are ever built?

This should be a scandal for any government.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

The only other ring the city/province should be discussing is the LRT wheel line to connect all the spokes! That or an inner-city tram ring to give the inner-city communities an easier way to move around.

But another road ring outside of the current one? Even if its in 50 years from now, no thank you...it would signify a city that lost it's way somewhere.

Then just change the whole Stoney Trail name is Wagon Wheel Trail ...

Alternative stereotypical cheesy western theme name for the ring road:

- The Big Lasso