PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by 1487

This is exactly what has happened over the decades in many southern cities- which is one reason they are able to maintain lower tax burdens vs smaller urban cities. You could never get away with annexation in a mature area like this but overall the city would be healthier if something like that had happened 50-60 years back because you would have a broader income base covered and likely more political diversity.

Would this not ultimately result in "the city part of the city" subsidizing the suburban sprawl that would be "Philadelphia"?

Originally Posted by GarCastle

We aren't talking about a trivial tax here, like a car rental on a vacation LOL. We are talking thousands of dollars, more in fact than I pay my town. Why should I pay more to Philly than my hometown and then have no say in Philly? That is the point. It's a damn good thing I don't smoke or I would be really pissed off HAHAHA. Smoker's will obviously just buy their cigarettes outside the city now and that will just hurt the trucks and small shops that sell cigarettes.

I would call a 3.92 vs. a 3.49 difference near equal and if you don't like how I phrased it, well that's just too bad. That's not 20% either, if you want to start quoting numbers that are only a Google search away.

Cheers,
G.

You don't live in Philadelphia so you don't get to vote on Philadelphia taxes. I'm not sure how it could be any simpler than that.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Dean4983

I honestly can't tell if you are joking or if I am missing something. Maybe an expansion like this takes longer but it doesn't look too different after a year. Maybe that's because of how quickly all of the other U-City skyscrapers sprout.

The whole lower portion of the structure - under construction last year - is now open and functioning. The portion under construction now is like a new building built on the roof .

My beef isn't with the pace but with the dog ugly hodge podge of unrelated buildings piled on top of eachother. Couldn't they have come up with something slightly better looking?

[1487]

Originally Posted by GarCastle

We aren't talking about a trivial tax here, like a car rental on a vacation LOL. We are talking thousands of dollars, more in fact than I pay my town. Why should I pay more to Philly than my hometown and then have no say in Philly? That is the point. It's a damn good thing I don't smoke or I would be really pissed off HAHAHA. Smoker's will obviously just buy their cigarettes outside the city now and that will just hurt the trucks and small shops that sell cigarettes.

I would call a 3.92 vs. a 3.49 difference near equal and if you don't like how I phrased it, well that's just too bad. That's not 20% either, if you want to start quoting numbers that are only a Google search away.

Cheers,
G.

You don't elect officials just because you pay taxes unless you live in the area collecting the taxes. Works like that nationwide. This is not a Philadelphia issue specifically. And having a vote does not give you as a taxpayer direct control over spending. Doesn't work like that on the municipal, state or federal level. No individual taxpayer gets to personally approve how their tax dollars are spent. Im not sure what exactly you think would happen if the city was "blessed" with your vote every 4 years.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

The whole lower portion of the structure - under construction last year - is now open and functioning. The portion under construction now is like a new building built on the roof .

My beef isn't with the pace but with the dog ugly hodge podge of unrelated buildings piled on top of eachother. Couldn't they have come up with something slightly better looking?

Guys, guys, guys... calm down. That building - ugly or not, may actually CURE some CANCERs in the next decade. Do I have to repeat for like the 10th time my love for Dr. Carl June/UPenn and now the Novartis funds kicking in to build this super, super, highly advanced immunotherapy cancer research and treatment center. Be happy we have such amazing medical research facilities, and brilliant, absolutely cutting edge physicians and researchers. That is all.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Guys, guys, guys... calm down. That building - ugly or not, may actually CURE some CANCERs in the next decade. Do I have to repeat for like the 10th time my love for Dr. Carl June/UPenn and now the Novartis funds kicking in to build this super, super, highly advanced immunotherapy cancer research and treatment center. Be happy we have such amazing medical research facilities, and brilliant, absolutely cutting edge physicians and researchers. That is all.

Word.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Guys, guys, guys... calm down. That building - ugly or not, may actually CURE some CANCERs in the next decade. Do I have to repeat for like the 10th time my love for Dr. Carl June/UPenn and now the Novartis funds kicking in to build this super, super, highly advanced immunotherapy cancer research and treatment center. Be happy we have such amazing medical research facilities, and brilliant, absolutely cutting edge physicians and researchers. That is all.

That's all heart warming and all but this is a skyscraper thread, not a medical thread. I agree 100% with Cro. It's such an ugly tangle of materials and styles, I just can't believe that someone can stand behind that building find it acceptable.

[PhillySteaks]

This board is literally turning into the comments sections from a Philly.com article. Way more opinion than fact/updates and I can literally feel myself losing braincells. I'm going to have to respectfully bow outta here so please don't reply because I won't see it...unless you feel the need for some sort of self gratification. Summrsam - you're cool. Thanks for all the info you've given.

And on one final troll note.....
The pretentious healthcare workers of Philly are the equivalent to the Financial Dbags of NYC and the Tech Wizards of SF. Keep spending your money, but god PLEASE shut up.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Guys, guys, guys... calm down. That building - ugly or not, may actually CURE some CANCERs in the next decade. Do I have to repeat for like the 10th time my love for Dr. Carl June/UPenn and now the Novartis funds kicking in to build this super, super, highly advanced immunotherapy cancer research and treatment center. Be happy we have such amazing medical research facilities, and brilliant, absolutely cutting edge physicians and researchers. That is all.

For sure, everything you say is 100% true.

But it is an ugly pile of boxes.That is all.

[summersm343]

Exactly. Seriously. This thread, Comcast thread, W thread.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by McBane

That's all heart warming and all but this is a skyscraper thread, not a medical thread. I agree 100% with Cro. It's such an ugly tangle of materials and styles, I just can't believe that someone can stand behind that building find it acceptable.

The lower part that resembles much of the Perelman I think indeed combines generic and ugly unfortunately, but the upper part will be much more visible and appears stylistically much sleeker and less incongruous with the other buildings around. At the end, I don't think it will appear that absurd and tangled.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

This board is literally turning into the comments sections from a Philly.com

This has been true for the last 9 years. Nothing new.

Thanks for the 1919 updates - they were interesting (and accurate).

[VikingDutchman]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Guys, guys, guys... calm down. That building - ugly or not, may actually CURE some CANCERs in the next decade. Do I have to repeat for like the 10th time my love for Dr. Carl June/UPenn and now the Novartis funds kicking in to build this super, super, highly advanced immunotherapy cancer research and treatment center. Be happy we have such amazing medical research facilities, and brilliant, absolutely cutting edge physicians and researchers. That is all.

PhillySteaks is right, the Med sector in Philly often behaves like the Bankers in NY and the Techies in the Bay Area. "Keep your mouths shut peasants! The important people are doing important things!"

Now, don't get me wrong, the work that the Med sector does is a LOT better for society than anything either of those other two groups do. And for that significant public good we give them PREFERENTIAL TAX STATUS.

Having done that, the account is square, and they ought to be treated like everyone else, not given an endless amount of leeway, especially when for Penn/CHOP/etc... "leeway" means the right to disfigure progressively larger and large portions of Philly a stone's throw from Center City.

What exactly about medical research requires the construction of such hideous buildings? What about medical research requires drowning a central urban neighborhood in a sea of parking? What is it about medical research that prevents developments from in any way attempting to be a part of the city? And we know it isn't about the lab work, because we know CHOP is not intending to do any in its proposed new complex on the east side of the river, making the buildings essentially equivalent to any other office building, and yet they still pushed a viciously anti-urban design better suited to Dallas than the once (and future!... hey I can dream...) capital of this country.

To circle back, it seems that what the big Med institutions in UCity (and spilling beyond it) really want is the same thing that many big finance and tech companies want, to create cloistered separated spaces that enable them and their employees to LOOK at the city (best way to avoid seeing an ugly building is to be INSIDE said building), without having to actually interact with it.

[Cro Burnham]

About the only thing more tedious than endless city vs suburb / rich vs poor / free market vs socialism / city vs city debates are the "guys, can we get back on topic?" posts.

If there were anything on topic to discuss, it would be being discussed. The endless policy debates are filler for when nothing new is happening or reported.

Development takes a long time. Moments of excitement and new fact discovery are rare. In between are long periods of nothing new to say but futile debates about policy, politics, and principles, or, equally boring, trivial platitudes like "she's a looker" and "she's moving along nicely now" or meaningless assertions like "in the next ten years, I predict we will get 3 new supertalls" or "this building would be better at [random alternative unfeasible location ] or if it were [random number pulled from a hat] stories taller".

But it's all good. People can post what they want, no matter how stupid or pointless, as long as they abide by the TOS. Likewise people can rebut freely, or, as Phillysteaks did, ignore or opt out. Most of us do a little of each.

It's a public forum with no admission standards, age or maturity cut-offs, or knowledge or professional prerequisites.

It's just a silly discussion board occassionally graced with facts and interesting new information. It has always been and will always be largely silly. Why would anyone expect anything more?

Folks need to stop taking stuff so seriously.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by VikingDutchman

PhillySteaks is right, the Med sector in Philly often behaves like the Bankers in NY and the Techies in the Bay Area. "Keep your mouths shut peasants! The important people are doing important things!"

Now, don't get me wrong, the work that the Med sector does is a LOT better for society than anything either of those other two groups do. And for that significant public good we give them PREFERENTIAL TAX STATUS.

Having done that, the account is square, and they ought to be treated like everyone else, not given an endless amount of leeway, especially when for Penn/CHOP/etc... "leeway" means the right to disfigure progressively larger and large portions of Philly a stone's throw from Center City.

What exactly about medical research requires the construction of such hideous buildings? What about medical research requires drowning a central urban neighborhood in a sea of parking? What is it about medical research that prevents developments from in any way attempting to be a part of the city? And we know it isn't about the lab work, because we know CHOP is not intending to do any in its proposed new complex on the east side of the river, making the buildings essentially equivalent to any other office building, and yet they still pushed a viciously anti-urban design better suited to Dallas than the once (and future!... hey I can dream...) capital of this country.

To circle back, it seems that what the big Med institutions in UCity (and spilling beyond it) really want is the same thing that many big finance and tech companies want, to create cloistered separated spaces that enable them and their employees to LOOK at the city (best way to avoid seeing an ugly building is to be INSIDE said building), without having to actually interact with it.

Excellent points.

[Dean4983]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

About the only thing more tedious than endless city vs suburb / rich vs poor / free market vs socialism / city vs city debates are the "guys, can we get back on topic?" posts.

Except that these are threads dedicated to specific topics. I come on these boards looking for new information/pictures or contributing pictures myself. I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish the "filler" topics simply wouldn't exist. At least not in the dedicated threads (especially the W Hotel). It is infuriating to think that there is some new information on a critical development in the heart of center city only to find out it is just ANOTHER ten pages of social commentary.

Me personally...I don't care as much about filler stuff on the development or general development threads, as long as it has some kind of tie in to the actual purpose of these message boards. I just wish some people would remember what these threads are for.

So, back on topic?

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Dean4983

Except that these are threads dedicated to specific topics. I come on these boards looking for new information/pictures or contributing pictures myself. I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish the "filler" topics simply wouldn't exist. At least not in the dedicated threads (especially the W Hotel). It is infuriating to think that there is some new information on a critical development in the heart of center city only to find out it is just ANOTHER ten pages of social commentary.

Me personally...I don't care as much about filler stuff on the development or general development threads, as long as it has some kind of tie in to the actual purpose of these message boards. I just wish some people would remember what these threads are for.

So, back on topic?

Very reasonable. But you know as well as I that it will never change. May as well adjust your expectations because your very reasonable desire will simply not be respected in the wild west of internet commentary.

[Dean4983]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Very reasonable. But you know as well as I that it will never change. May as well adjust your expectations because your very reasonable desire will simply not be respected in the wild west of internet commentary.

You are correct. The Internet is somehow both the best and the worst.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Dean4983

Except that these are threads dedicated to specific topics. I come on these boards looking for new information/pictures or contributing pictures myself. I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who wish the "filler" topics simply wouldn't exist. At least not in the dedicated threads (especially the W Hotel). It is infuriating to think that there is some new information on a critical development in the heart of center city only to find out it is just ANOTHER ten pages of social commentary.

Me personally...I don't care as much about filler stuff on the development or general development threads, as long as it has some kind of tie in to the actual purpose of these message boards. I just wish some people would remember what these threads are for.

So, back on topic?

No the filler stuff shouldn't be in like the W Hotel thread. I'm gonna see what's going on there. :/

That said, this is the de rigueur filler stuff thread and has been for a long time.

[josef]

On another topic entirely. I'm sure some of you guys know awesome developers in the city. Someone get them to build a long-overdue TOD project next to the Ferry Ave PATCO stop.



http://s.lnimg.com/attachments/DE17B7BA-148C-47EA-8570-ECAA26D9A3C2.pdf

[PhiLaw]

So what do you guys think of abortion?