PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by br323206

One of the biggest reasons Philly needs a wage tax is because of the population and job losses to the suburbs, facilitated by federal spending policies that prioritized suburban sprawl.

Of course there is an easy solution: metropolitan government. If we annex your suburb into the city then you can vote in Philadelphia again. Seems like a fair trade off to me. How about it?

Why would Philadelphia NOW annex areas of the surrounding region that are now growing slower than the city? Plus lose a lot of its density while at it?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Why would Philadelphia NOW annex areas of the surrounding region that are now growing slower than the city? Plus lose a lot of its density while at it?

Simple answer: To expand the tax base with more middle income earners.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Philadelphia = America's Next Energy Hub

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/philad...cas-next-energy-hub/#RV0UU7v3xpcmbSai.99

Ugh...this was already posted I believe a few days ago and I was hoping no one would respond.

That is already what we need. Not only more industrial structures in Philadelphia but another controversial subject like fracking to bicker on here about to go along with casinos, taxes, & public schools.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Simple answer: To expand the tax base with more middle income earners.

It isn't better in the long run. The city pulls more from the wage tax now than they have in years yet the wage tax is at its lowest percentage in 40 years because of gains in those with high incomes. Continue correcting what ails the already 130 sq miles of the city now without having to add more pieces to the pie.

[josef]

1100 block of Chestnut demo uncovering lots of graffiti.

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

1487's reply is spot on. In addition to everything 1487 said I would also note that those federal highways you drive on are what allowed the tax base to disperse to the hinterland in the first place, draining Philadelphia's revenue stream. One of the biggest reasons Philly needs a wage tax is because of the population and job losses to the suburbs, facilitated by federal spending policies that prioritized suburban sprawl.

Of course there is an easy solution: metropolitan government. If we annex your suburb into the city then you can vote in Philadelphia again. Seems like a fair trade off to me. How about it?

This is exactly what has happened over the decades in many southern cities- which is one reason they are able to maintain lower tax burdens vs smaller urban cities. You could never get away with annexation in a mature area like this but overall the city would be healthier if something like that had happened 50-60 years back because you would have a broader income base covered and likely more political diversity.

[summersm343]

Pearl Sells the Sansom to New York Based Company

Pearl unloads another property: The Sansom, to a New York Based Company for a cool $40 million. I think they're gathering funds and gearing up for the 1900 Chestnut development.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...buys-the-sansom-apatment-complex-in.html

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Pearl Sells the Sansom to New York Based Company

Pearl unloads another property: The Sansom, to a New York Based Company for a cool $40 million. I think they're gathering funds and gearing up for the 1900 Chestnut development.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...buys-the-sansom-apatment-complex-in.html

^^Thanks for the link! I sure do hope so--that 1900 Chestnut building would be absolutely terrific. (fingers crossed). Pearl flipped that thing fast.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^^Thanks for the link! I sure do hope so--that 1900 Chestnut building would be absolutely terrific. (fingers crossed). Pearl flipped that thing fast.

They sold both Granary and Sansom. Granary before it was even finished construction!

[br323206]

Originally Posted by relnahe

It isn't better in the long run. The city pulls more from the wage tax now than they have in years yet the wage tax is at its lowest percentage in 40 years because of gains in those with high incomes. Continue correcting what ails the already 130 sq miles of the city now without having to add more pieces to the pie.

You're wrong for a lot of reasons, the most important one is the one 1487 mentions. Larger municipal boundaries take in more wealthy/middle class areas and add to the tax base. Adding Lower Merion wouldn't add any problems to "the pie." That's not to say you should continue annexing indefinitely, there is of course, a happy medium. Places like Houston will suffer down the road when they realize that they built sprawling infrastructure at the edges of the city that will become too expensive to maintain. But the suburbs surrounding Philadelphia are built out and are denser (read: more efficient) than many American cities.

We've discussed this before and there is a lot of academic research out there to back up our position.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by br323206

You're wrong for a lot of reasons, the most important one is the one 1487 mentions. Larger municipal boundaries take in more wealthy/middle class areas and add to the tax base. Adding Lower Merion wouldn't add any problems to "the pie." That's not to say you should continue annexing indefinitely, there is of course, a happy medium. Places like Houston will suffer down the road when they realize that they built sprawling infrastructure at the edges of the city that will become too expensive to maintain. But the suburbs surrounding Philadelphia are built out and are denser (read: more efficient) than many American cities.

We've discussed this before and there is a lot of academic research out there to back up our position.

That's all this is an exercise in, academics. It has about as much chance of happening as we all do with Kate Upton. Lower Merion residents would wage a full scale assault (i'm talking literally, like with — and Tanks if they could) if talk of annexation ever occurred. They move to these white enclaves with insane tax bases and amazing schools for a reason.

Tell them what they've won Jonny! Hey Mr. and Mrs. Lower Merion Resident, we'd like to welcome your 2 children into the Philadelphia School District! Instead of $16,000/year per student, the city is going to spend $6000. And the rest of your money is going to service the very low income residents that you fled the city to avoid!

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by 1487

The notion that we are owed a vote for every tax we pay is nonsense. You are owed a vote when you live in a particular municipality or state and pay taxes to that state. You are not owed a vote for every tax you pay anywhere in the country. That is ridiculous. In case you didn't realize it, you pay local taxes on hotels, rental cars, sports tickets, amusement park tickets and a host of other things wherever you go in this country. You don't get to pick how that money is spent. In fact, in many states (like Florida) taxing OTHERS is a huge part of the revenue stream. I rented a car in Florida and paid like 15%-20% in state taxes on that car. When you consider how many people come to that state and rent cars its pretty apparent that Florida is able to tax it's residents much less because it brings in so much from outsiders. Of course I have the option of never visiting Florida again if I dont like the fact that I dont get to chose elected officials there. BTW, Id like to know how far we should extend these "rights" to outside taxpayers in philly. Should those who buy drinks at bars, those who pay the 2% city sales tax or those who pay rental car taxes at PHL get to vote in Philadelphia? Also, you dont pay a "near equal" wage tax, you pay like 20% less if you are a commuter.

We aren't talking about a trivial tax here, like a car rental on a vacation LOL. We are talking thousands of dollars, more in fact than I pay my town. Why should I pay more to Philly than my hometown and then have no say in Philly? That is the point. It's a damn good thing I don't smoke or I would be really pissed off HAHAHA. Smoker's will obviously just buy their cigarettes outside the city now and that will just hurt the trucks and small shops that sell cigarettes.

I would call a 3.92 vs. a 3.49 difference near equal and if you don't like how I phrased it, well that's just too bad. That's not 20% either, if you want to start quoting numbers that are only a Google search away.

Cheers,
G.

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by GarCastle

We aren't talking about a trivial tax here, like a car rental on a vacation LOL. We are talking thousands of dollars, more in fact than I pay my town. Why should I pay more to Philly than my hometown and then have no say in Philly? That is the point. It's a damn good thing I don't smoke or I would be really pissed off HAHAHA. Smoker's will obviously just buy their cigarettes outside the city now and that will just hurt the trucks and small shops that sell cigarettes.

I would call a 3.92 vs. a 3.49 difference near equal and if you don't like how I phrased it, well that's just too bad. That's not 20% either, if you want to start quoting numbers that are only a Google search away.

Cheers,
G.

And in case anyone reads too much into my tax comments - I just finished watching the "Turn" series on AMC so I was feeling a bit more colonial than usual LOL.

Cheers,
G.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by Londonee

That's all this is an exercise in, academics. It has about as much chance of happening as we all do with Kate Upton. Lower Merion residents would wage a full scale assault (i'm talking literally, like with — and Tanks if they could) if talk of annexation ever occurred. They move to these white enclaves with insane tax bases and amazing schools for a reason.

Tell them what they've won Jonny! Hey Mr. and Mrs. Lower Merion Resident, we'd like to welcome your 2 children into the Philadelphia School District! Instead of $16,000/year per student, the city is going to spend $6000. And the rest of your money is going to service the very low income residents that you fled the city to avoid!

— and tanks? Really? You must hate the people of Lower Merion. Do you have the same loathing and contempt for, say, Beverly Hills. You know, because it has all those white people.

[summersm343]

What great city around the US is cheaper than their surrounding burbs????????

ANSWER = NONE

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by japmes

Is there only one guy working this construction site? It seems like it has been moving at a snail's pace for years.

Originally Posted by Dean4983

haha I wonder the same thing. I'm pretty sure this looked exactly the same as it did before the boardwalk began.

Haha such an exaggeration.

November of last year



October of this year

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by summersm343

They sold both Granary and Sansom. Granary before it was even finished construction!

Didn't know Pearl owns this spot too - 1523 Walnut.

http://mobile.philly.com/blogs/?wss=/philly/blogs/the-insider/&id=278466371

[Dean4983]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Haha such an exaggeration.

I honestly can't tell if you are joking or if I am missing something. Maybe an expansion like this takes longer but it doesn't look too different after a year. Maybe that's because of how quickly all of the other U-City skyscrapers sprout.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Londonee

That's all this is an exercise in, academics. It has about as much chance of happening as we all do with Kate Upton. Lower Merion residents would wage a full scale assault (i'm talking literally, like with — and Tanks if they could) if talk of annexation ever occurred. They move to these white enclaves with insane tax bases and amazing schools for a reason.

Tell them what they've won Jonny! Hey Mr. and Mrs. Lower Merion Resident, we'd like to welcome your 2 children into the Philadelphia School District! Instead of $16,000/year per student, the city is going to spend $6000. And the rest of your money is going to service the very low income residents that you fled the city to avoid!

You're right. That's why I've repeatedly said it'll never happen because no suburban residents will support the idea. But my point is that they are holding a position that is detrimental to the region as a whole, even if it is good for their own self interest.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by GarCastle

We aren't talking about a trivial tax here, like a car rental on a vacation LOL. We are talking thousands of dollars, more in fact than I pay my town. Why should I pay more to Philly than my hometown and then have no say in Philly? That is the point. It's a damn good thing I don't smoke or I would be really pissed off HAHAHA. Smoker's will obviously just buy their cigarettes outside the city now and that will just hurt the trucks and small shops that sell cigarettes.

I would call a 3.92 vs. a 3.49 difference near equal and if you don't like how I phrased it, well that's just too bad. That's not 20% either, if you want to start quoting numbers that are only a Google search away.

Cheers,
G.

You should pay more because Philly says you should pay more, and if you don't like it you can work somewhere else. It's that simple. Is the wage tax ideal? No. Would I like it eliminated? Yes. But does it make any sense to allow people that don't live in the city to hold the city financially hostage and contribute nothing? Absolutely not. That's insane.

As for the cigarette tax: cigarette demand is inelastic. Some people will stop smoking. Some people will travel to buy their cigarettes in bulk. But the majority of people will go about their business buying their packs at the local bodega and just grumble a little more about it.