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  #601  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 3:19 AM
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ctobsl ctobsl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jubguy3 View Post
Hey, an area of concern for the design is that the Plaza tunnel is way too short to successfully pass under the CCH at an acceptable steepness.
I think the Plaza tunnel is meant to be level to the ground and not go below grade. It is a passage way between the two sections of the building that is open to the outside and for pedestrians only.

Last edited by ctobsl; Sep 28, 2014 at 3:34 AM.
     
     
  #602  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 4:59 AM
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Viperlord Viperlord is offline
 
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A few project updates:

If you have driven by the Moench Printing & Mailing building at 255. W 800 S. you may have noticed that the building is now vacant, and the lawn and landscape hasn't been maintained for a while.

My office is right across the street from the site. My boss attends the community & neighborhood meetings regularly. I guess the site is under contract to be sold to a developer who wants to demolish the building and place a multi-family mid-rise (4-5 stories) on the site.

Also:

Ballpark Lofts - Apartments
1380 S. West Temple
is making progress again. It hit a bump due to some internal issues. The project is slated to be built as senior housing apartments now.

Also:
The Centro Civico Mexicano
155 S 600 W
Is looking into developing a portion of their property into some multi family project of some sort. This will not be part of the future Gateway Alta apartment project next door.
     
     
  #603  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 6:18 AM
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Are Salt Lake City zoning codes & laws holding back a much higher & greater development potential?

As many of you know, I am going to school at the moment to study business, finance, and economics. I also am working for a civil engineering firm. So, being curious as to the economics behind mid-rises & high-rises.....I did some research into the economics behind building types & heights.
I found some really good articles relating to similar issues other cities are having with this same issue:

Please read these articles and then think about how they relate to Salt Lake City's zoning laws and how they are hindering and holding back potential greater development potential in our city:

PS this thread is meant to be thought provoking:

Is Downtown's Low-Rise Building Spree Hurting the Community?
http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/is-do...e5f97ec-eb52-11e2-a694-0019bb2963f4.html

Build Up: High Cost of Wood Brings New Opportunity for DevelopersBuild Up: High Cost of Wood Brings New Opportunity for Developers
http://www.multifamilyexecutive.com/cons...ring-new-opportunity-for-developers.aspx

A hidden height limit holds back affordable mid-rise construction in DC
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post...-affordable-mid-rise-construction-in-dc/

Mid-rise buildings emphasize location, cost efficiency & style:
http://www.humphreys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/MHN_05-07.pdf

the economics of mid-rise & high rise projects
http://www.humphreys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/MFT_FL-04.pdf

Are Nervous Developers Giving Us A Stumpy Downtown?
http://la.curbed.com/archives/2013/07/are_nervous_developers_giving_us_a_stumpy_downtown_1.php

Mid-rise buildings challenge Toronto developers, city
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...toronto-developers-city/article16410177/

Seattle Considers Lowering Height Limits: How this will hurt affordable housing Downtown and its surrounding area
http://seattletransitblog.com/2014/01/10/seattle-considers-lowering-height-limits/


So, to sum it up:

I think that it is safe to say that the city leaders and planners do not take into account the economics and feasibility when they do their master zoning. Sure they are trying to limit development from encroaching into the historic neighborhoods, and I agree with that, but I think to stop development from encroaching into these areas the city should re-visit the zoning laws that it has in place in the CBD and the downtown support zoning areas. D-2, D-3 and D-4.

Wooden types of construction can go to 5-6 floors max, with one concrete floor podium (usually used for parking). This would fall within the 75' height limit in much of SLC's areas where multi family residential is being constructed. In certain areas the city does allow up to 90' or even 120' height through conditional approval, but remember that as soon as you cross over the 5-6 floor range you can't use wooden frame construction. You now have to use steel or concrete. If the developer choses to go with the steel or concrete construction type the project now becomes more expensive to build.... well, how do you make up for the higher construction costs.... you build taller or add more leasable or salable square footage to your project. but in order to make the project pen out financially with steel or concrete construction you would have to end up with many more stories than the zoning heights would allow in the 120' conditional use. So, therefore we either have to wait until the city changes this zoning issue, or the land values become so high that they outprice the cost of the steel or construction, and make the project financially feasible. This leaves many land owners to sit on their property and wait for a higher return on their investment down the road. I would be willing to argue that if land owners had higher heights and better zoning laws than what Salt Lake City currently has zoned in some of its areas, we would see a major uptick in construction and density, as well as residential units, as these land owners would be able to achieve a greater use and return on their property now by developing than just sitting and waiting for the land to go up in value.


I will be conducting some more research into this through some more developers and engineers. I want to compile my information in a study & a report and be able to present the results on this forum later.
     
     
  #604  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
I don't necessarily think it's Salt Lake City that has the aversion to splitting up the blocks, they in fact are encouraging it. Salt Lake City can't simply take property away from owners. As we know, SLC does have an aversion to using eminent domain. So that bring the burden of splitting up the blocks to the property owners and developers. Property owners don't want to just give up developable property without some sort of compensation.

Yes the city built Gallivan, and my assumption is that they bought as much property as they could afford or that property owners were willing to sell.

I know the city is encouraging the splitting up of blocks, although I'm not aware of what incentives they have for property owners and developers to do so. I would think that a density bonus related to a reduction in parking requirements would be a great incentive.
I think the RDA owned most that land, if not all, back in the 80s. But I can't remember (well I wasn't alive...but I can't remember if I read that right).
     
     
  #605  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 11:11 AM
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duplicate

Last edited by delts145; Oct 4, 2014 at 12:15 PM.
     
     
  #606  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 5:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctobsl View Post
I think the Plaza tunnel is meant to be level to the ground and not go below grade. It is a passage way between the two sections of the building that is open to the outside and for pedestrians only.
Yeah, that's what I had in mind.
     
     
  #607  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 8:02 PM
asies1981 asies1981 is offline
 
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Photo updates for Bridges and North Sixth. Also I have a meeting tomorrow with the LaPorte Group and will have a project update this week on my blog.
     
     
  #608  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asies1981 View Post
Photo updates for Bridges and North Sixth. Also I have a meeting tomorrow with the LaPorte Group and will have a project update this week on my blog.
You should ask them ( maybe in a more nicer way then what I'm about to say. ) but what is the deal with your f**k ups with the State Street Plaza development? Why was this development so poorly planned?
     
     
  #609  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 8:42 PM
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Glendale Library



     
     
  #610  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Are Salt Lake City zoning codes & laws holding back a much higher & greater development potential?

As many of you know, I am going to school at the moment to study business, finance, and economics. I also am working for a civil engineering firm. So, being curious as to the economics behind mid-rises & high-rises.....I did some research into the economics behind building types & heights.
I found some really good articles relating to similar issues other cities are having with this same issue:

Please read these articles and then think about how they relate to Salt Lake City's zoning laws and how they are hindering and holding back potential greater development potential in our city:
Very interesting stuff. It really is, and thanks for the good reading. SLC sure is getting a lot of 4-5 story apartments, and while there are advantages to more density, I'm still mostly in favor of the trend:
1) The 4-5 story buildings are not going up in the urban core where there ought to be taller buildings. Currently they are going up around the periphery, mostly along 4th south and N. Temple, and they act as sort of a 'transition' from low to high density. That wasn't there before, and was needed.
2) I would rather have lots of 4-5 story buildings spread throughout the city than just a few tall buildings. Density is as much about street interaction as it is building up and squeezing people into as few square miles as possible.
3) I believe that density works best when it is driven by market value, not forced by zoning regulations.
4) Buildings can be torn down and replaced by higher density when the time comes - especially if they're made of wood and plaster. SLC proves more often than most that buildings can be torn down.
On the other hand though, there is that back-of-the-hand rule of how to define an urban area - where the building height and street width form a ratio of 1 to 1 (meaning they are at least equal). If the buildings are taller than the street is wide, that's great, but they have to be at least as tall as the street right-of-way is wide. Basically, you should be able to draw a 45-degree right-triangle between the top of one building, it's base, and the base of the building opposite the street from it. Otherwise the location gives off a more suburban vibe than urban. SLC does worse here than other cites because of the mega-wide streets - such as N. Temple and 4th South, which is where the new 4-5 story buildings are going. There is no way 4-5 story buildings will help these two streets pass the 'urban' test.
I don't know. Interesting reads. Thanks for the links.
     
     
  #611  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:11 PM
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Looks like Fan-X is officially on for 2015. I still think they're over-reaching, and they're going to burn out their geek fanbase. Then again, as long as they keep packing the convention center and have three hour lines wrapping around the block, they've got the demand, and they'll keep doing it twice a year.

https://twitter.com/slcomiccon/status/517095421165178880
     
     
  #612  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:15 PM
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Maybe Utahns want something to do that is fun, safe, and can be enjoyed by all. !!:-D I wonder how many families attend those. Or it might just really be a nerd thing. But my nieces love dressing up.
     
     
  #613  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:27 PM
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Here is some of the new landscaping at kilowatt park. Now that the Capital Theater expansion isn't using this as their staging area they are putting things back together. I don't remember exactly what it looked like before but it seems like visibility to Benihana and Blue Iguana is a little better.

[IMG] by , on Flickr[/IMG]
     
     
  #614  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:39 PM
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The exterior of the capital theater expansion is near completion. They had the feature lights on last night....It was pretty cool how the panels were back-lit.
     
     
  #615  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:53 PM
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Viperlord. One of the articles stated that the units attracted young successfull people and empty nesters. I wonder how the millennials which aren't as financially well of as the prior generations affect this type of growth. Also. These projects have gotten larger then the once common 20 unit max, single apartment buildings downtown. The new mid-rise projects have large foot prints. What they seem to be doing is taking the old suburb multibuilding complexes and repackaging them for those wanting am urban living. Which im fine with, but it makes me wonder how they have to keep building bigger (not necessarily taller) to make a profit. Another thing is no mention if the highrise residencial occupants creat the streer vibrancy like those that occupy midrise residential structures
     
     
  #616  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CofIKid View Post
The exterior of the capital theater expansion is near completion. They had the feature lights on last night....It was pretty cool how the panels were back-lit.
Where was your phone camera?!
     
     
  #617  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EPdesign View Post
Maybe Utahns want something to do that is fun, safe, and can be enjoyed by all. !!:-D I wonder how many families attend those. Or it might just really be a nerd thing. But my nieces love dressing up.
It is a lot of fun, and there are a lot of families with kids in tow. Believe me, I get it. Plus I'm an exhibitor with the LEGO people, so it's good for me.

Considering wearing my jedi costume to the next one...maybe Aquaman. Holy — I'm a nerd.
     
     
  #618  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by EPdesign View Post
Maybe Utahns want something to do that is fun, safe, and can be enjoyed by all. !!:-D I wonder how many families attend those. Or it might just really be a nerd thing. But my nieces love dressing up.
Here is a study on Called "The Nerdiest States In America". Utah ranks #1

http://blog.estately.com/2014/04/the-nerdiest-states-in-america/
     
     
  #619  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 8:44 PM
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I sat down with the new architects for State Street Plaza and they took me on a tour of the project. The update is here. Construction is set to return full-swing this month.
     
     
  #620  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 9:22 PM
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What's under 300 W?



Old railroad ties under 300 West uncovered by the current landscaped median project.
     
     
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