LOS ANGELES | Central City Project Rundown 5.0

[Wally West]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesDreamin

LA?? I think tries too hard including too many amenities like freaking playground and stuff and designs are over the top ugly... Maguire Gardens and Angel Knolls are the only parks i consider great in DTLA. Developers are over thinking it.

I agree completely. For example, last year Gensler proposed this concept for Pershing Square.



To see how Gensler came to this conclusion, watch this video and you'll see how Gensler took in consideration of a lot of factors. I suppose it's nice they're trying to make the park as efficient as possible but it's easy to see how much they're overthinking the project. I even believe their goal of making the park into a town square is a bit misguided. Nearly every open space in DTLA has the aim of being a civic center or gathering place (which results in the parks being more cement than grass). Having this ambitious goal of being the main civic center results in developers neglecting the basic demand for green space.

Quite honestly, LA is overthinking this park and should just use the 1920s Pershing Square design which has a fountain in the middle. It's universally loved for a reason.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Wally West

I agree completely. For example, last year Gensler proposed this concept for Pershing Square.

To see how Gensler came to this conclusion, watch this video and you'll see how Gensler took in consideration of a lot of factors. I suppose it's nice they're trying to make the park as efficient as possible but it's easy to see how much they're overthinking the project. I even believe their goal of making the park into a town square is a bit misguided. Nearly every open space in DTLA has the aim of being a civic center or gathering place (which results in the parks being more cement than grass). Having this ambitious goal of being the main civic center results in developers neglecting the basic demand for green space.

Quite honestly, LA is overthinking this park and should just use the 1920s Pershing Square design which has a fountain in the middle. It's universally loved for a reason.

I watched the video. It was 3 minutes in before there was any mention of something organic........they called it plant material.............and 4 1/2 minutes in before we saw something on the same level as the square and not viewed from 20 stories above. That lasted roughly 30 sec and then the video was over. The palm tree is dominant in the area of the square which they say is primarily in sun. Palm trees do not provide shade. Shade is very important when temps get above 80º.......a fairly common phenomenon in LA. Why are there not more shade trees? Have these architects never been in a park?

They devote nearly half the square to cement......mainly as a plaza to view major events but somewhere in the middle is an area that's devoted to what they call sports.......a tennis court? a basketball court? In a park that is only the size of a block, why devote so much of it to cement? Isn't there enough hard surfaces in a DT area without adding to them?

You're right their whole process is over studied. It becomes neurotic in its attention to detail. I wonder if its to justify their fees.

[DJM19]

My only real request is that it not feel insular. Some people have the desire for an oasis where you barely feel like you are in a city. Well this is a city plaza essentially, and should be open to its surroundings like so many of the best squares and plazas. I don't mind a lot of concrete, but a more elegant paving would be nice. It also makes sense from a maintenance and drought point of view.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by alki

You're right their whole process is over studied. It becomes neurotic in its attention to detail. I wonder if its to justify their fees.

I am positive that's part of it. Gotta show some serious effort when you're getting paid the big bucks.

[Flavius Josephus]

Some news on condo projects from Bloomberg Businessweek: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-06...as-towers-rise-from-boston-to-l-dot-a#p2

[colemonkee]

Really interesting quote from that article. Anyone know what this second project five blocks away from Glass Tower is?

Trumark’s first Los Angeles project, a 22-floor tower with 151 units at the intersection of Grand Avenue and 11th Street, is expected to break ground in the fourth quarter on a site where a condo development stalled during the recession, he said. Trumark expects to start a second project five blocks away in 2016 in a neighborhood already bristling with hotel and apartment construction cranes.

[Flavius Josephus]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

Really interesting quote from that article. Anyone know what this second project five blocks away from Glass Tower is?

Just realized that Bloomberg piece was from June. Oddly, just got sent to me on a list today. Whoops.

Anyway, per Google, Trumark put out a press release a while back saying that their other site was "under contract." Nothing obvious online about where exactly it is - 5 blocks away could be straight up near Pershing Square or a zig-zag that would take you to yet another South Park parking lot.

Edit: per the Assessor's Office website, commercial property sales after May-ish 2014 include 533 S Broadway [run-down 2 story commercial], 730 W Olympic [surface parking], 811 W Olympic [car wash site], 948 S Olive [surface parking], 1100 Wilshire [existing high-rise], 655 S Hope [existing high-rise], and 654 S Figueroa [existing high-rise]. Several of those could loosely be described as about 5 blocks away, and that doesn't include any sales that were structured in such a way as to avoid registering change of ownership for Prop 13 purposes. By the way, looking at the Assessor's website, it looks like there's been a LOT of action on Broadway in the last 2 years, so probably more development in the pipeline there.

[brudy]

On the Pershing Square redo - I have ZERO faith that they will do this right. LA loves to overdesign and overthink things, especially parks. Trees, grass, some paths. Or go copy Bryant Park in New York. Can't a park just be park? Just green space that's not overprogrammed?

And no we DO NOT need any more kids stuff. They have one at Spring and a big thing is getting put up in Grand. Oh, there's the park at 9th and Hope as well. There just aren't enough kids to justify it and there won't be until they sort out the skid row situation. I'm not a pearl clutcher but there's no way I'd ever raise a kid in downtown, but a lack of jungle gyms isn't the reason.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by alki

I watched the video. It was 3 minutes in before there was any mention of something organic........they called it plant material.............and 4 1/2 minutes in before we saw something on the same level as the square and not viewed from 20 stories above. That lasted roughly 30 sec and then the video was over. The palm tree is dominant in the area of the square which they say is primarily in sun. Palm trees do not provide shade. Shade is very important when temps get above 80º.......a fairly common phenomenon in LA. Why are there not more shade trees? Have these architects never been in a park?

I'm not sure I have faith in architects to design a park. Look at how awful Spring St is. It's cute and looks great from the air, but the odd grass shape mound is too small for the demand/population/park/multiple uses and has ignited wars among residents, the huge open paved area on the middle is wasted. It's all too overthought and overwrought.

[The Illusive Man]

Isn't CA and LA in a major drought though? It rarely rains here. Is it really wise to have a park that size full of grass and trees? Grass is a major water waster and as soon as you stop watering it gets nasty and dried out. A park in LA will have to have a mixture of concrete and green. It's our reality and it's really not that big of a deal.

You folks need to relax and stop getting emotional over everything.

[edluva]

Originally Posted by brudy

I'm not sure I have faith in architects to design a park.

landscape architects are typically the people who design parks. my most accounts gensler is pretty experienced in landscape architecture. they have an extensive portfolio.

as others have stated here, the kiddie stuff is most likely a political consideration, owing to the backwards political climate of LA in general. there's no shortage of stupidity in LA and this is probably just another casualty of that.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by edluva

landscape architects are typically the people who design parks. my most accounts gensler is pretty experienced in landscape architecture. they have an extensive portfolio.

as others have stated here, the kiddie stuff is most likely a political consideration, owing to the backwards political climate of LA in general. there's no shortage of stupidity in LA and this is probably just another casualty of that.

Landscape architects are certainly not exempt from the egomania and overthinking that goes on with traditional architects working on high profile projects. For every hit like the High Line there's a an overwrought, overthought, turkey of a park or plaza that isn't getting used because the architect prioritized edginess over basic functionality. There's pressure to innovate, reinvent the wheel and make a name for yourself just as their is with regular architecture projects. The preliminary renderings and video that Gensler produced are not instilling any confidence.

Source: 1.5 years of Landscape Architecture studio courses during my planning degree (I wanted to specialize in Urban Design but those classes were full so I went for LA courses instead.)

[Flavius Josephus]

40% of Metropolis Phase I condos reserved, per press release: http://www.virtualpressoffice.com/public...sableHistory=Y&menuName=News&sId=&sInfo=

[brudy]

Originally Posted by edluva

landscape architects are typically the people who design parks. my most accounts gensler is pretty experienced in landscape architecture. they have an extensive portfolio.

as others have stated here, the kiddie stuff is most likely a political consideration, owing to the backwards political climate of LA in general. there's no shortage of stupidity in LA and this is probably just another casualty of that.

Take a look at Gensler's concepts that were floated around for Pershing a few years ago - terrible, IMO. Extremely overdesigned. And by whose accounts do they do good stuff? Other architects? I get that landscape architecture is a specialty, but that doesn't mean it's not over-intellectualized or that they do great work. I know Gensler has a good reputation on the whole, but what about their parks specifically?

Generally I think I'd prefer a more natural park even though it seems that sentiment is not in vogue. Illusive's comments about water are pertinent though...

[edluva]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Landscape architects are certainly not exempt from the egomania and overthinking that goes on with traditional architects working on high profile projects. For every hit like the High Line there's a an overwrought, overthought, turkey of a park or plaza that isn't getting used because the architect prioritized edginess over basic functionality. There's pressure to innovate, reinvent the wheel and make a name for yourself just as their is with regular architecture projects. The preliminary renderings and video that Gensler produced are not instilling any confidence.

Source: 1.5 years of Landscape Architecture studio courses during my planning degree (I wanted to specialize in Urban Design but those classes were full so I went for LA courses instead.)

no one said gensler is immune to overthinking or egomania; all designers are. it's just that swings and slides are not their m.o. this being LA, I would not hesitate to put the moronic decision to include those past the usual stupid politics that defines LA. can you honestly deny the plausibility of this, given the general tendency of star designers to muck things up when given an LA commission?

in any case, if it were up to me I'd hire james corner for this. the only LA project to get somewhat excited about thus far is grimshaw's involvement at union station. everything else has been predictably blasé.

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by edluva

no one said gensler is immune to overthinking or egomania; all designers are. it's just that swings and slides are not their m.o. this being LA, I would not hesitate to put the moronic decision to include those past the usual stupid politics that defines LA. can you honestly deny the plausibility of this, given the general tendency of star designers to muck things up when given an LA commission?

in any case, if it were up to me I'd hire james corner for this. the only LA project to get somewhat excited about thus far is grimshaw's involvement at union station. everything else has been predictably blasé.

What about Mia Lehrer? She has done some pretty sweet projects, especially Vista Hermosa Park, the Rand Corporation and Natural History Museum garden. She seems to "get it" as far as taste goes….oh and the Annenberg Beach House in Santa Monica.

[blackcat23]

The Architect's Newspaper with a nice visualization of the Union Station proposed master plan:

• Video Link

[edluva]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

What about Mia Lehrer? She has done some pretty sweet projects, especially Vista Hermosa Park, the Rand Corporation and Natural History Museum garden. She seems to "get it" as far as taste goes….oh and the Annenberg Beach House in Santa Monica.

I can definitely get behind Lehrer as well. or Martha Schwartz

[BrianMojo]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

The Architect's Newspaper with a nice visualization of the Union Station proposed master plan:

Dunno why that didn't load, but here's a direct link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKW8VaYDM0

(It looks great and really well thought out!)

[brudy]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

What about Mia Lehrer? She has done some pretty sweet projects, especially Vista Hermosa Park, the Rand Corporation and Natural History Museum garden. She seems to "get it" as far as taste goes….oh and the Annenberg Beach House in Santa Monica.

Vista Hermosa is a great park. I wonder how much the client matters, as that's a Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy thing, and not a city park?