New Central Library | Construction

[93JC]

Originally Posted by bt04ku

Was said and was met with applause (I think in no small part because of the show the guy asking the question was trying to put on, "the question from hell" as he described it).

It was almost unfortunate that they couldn't have really taken the guy to task. He challenged them to build a great bridge but never elaborated what a great bridge is. I would have argued that a bridge can only be truly 'great' if connects well with the two points it's spanning from, which frankly they could not have done in this case.

I presume that the people asking "Why no Plus-15?" mean across 3rd St to the Municipal Building. Where would it go? How would it connect to the Municipal Building? The Municipal Building was never designed for that. In order to accommodate the Plus-15 properly you'd have to completely reconfigure the interior of the Muni Building. Who's going to pay for that? I can already envision the editorials in The Sun about wasteful spending at "Silly Hall". (And on "Silly Hall" itself no less!)

And why would you want to connect the two? Some of citizens at the presentation asked about C-train access; would the point of the bridge be to make a path through the Administration Building and Municipal Building to the C-Train station on 7th Ave? The presenters had to be polite but I would have been tempted to point out the ridiculousness of this by asking if it's really worth one's time and effort (let alone the millions of dollars to build it) to take a meandering trip through the City Hall complex to a Plus-15 to get to the library. It's not as though the C-Train station is a couple blocks away; it's quite literally right across the street.

[93JC]

Originally Posted by Amsterdamned

Any bets on the mullions being simplified due to budget constraints??

I'd take that bet. There's still a rectangular grid of mullions across the entire façade, and I'd bet that those are the 'real' mullions holding the system together. The smaller diagonal pieces are probably "faux mullions" that happen to break up the look of the glass but don't actually support separate sections of glass.

[93JC]

Originally Posted by Bokimon

Unfortunately for cost, Calgary contractors know little about building these calibre designs so I bet this figure is probably overly cautious for the actual worth of the design as in other cities I bet it would be done cheaper while maintaining design quality.

I wouldn't sell our contractors short. E.g. they were the ones who fixed all the Spanish contractor's fuck-ups on the Peace Bridge.

[WaitWhat?]

Proposals for public art at the new library are due a week from tomorrow. Budget is $2 million. For that amount of money we should be able to get something fairly interesting. Or big. Or both.

http://www.calgarymlc.ca/explore-projects/new-central-library/art

[jeffwhit]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

I have mixed feelings about the new library. I love the building and I love the fact that it is utilizing a piece of land that was until now unusable. What I don't like is it's location. It's too nice of a building to be stuck behind City Hall.

I think once East Village is actually being used and lived in, your impression will change. I mean, is Telus Sky "behind" the Petro Canada building? I mean, it kind of literally is. The city currently just stops at City Hall, and I think that gives the impression you speak of.

[CorporateWhore]

In 5-10 years, the East Village side of city Hall is where we'll all want to hang out anyway...Parks and riverfront, cultural hotspots, probably more restaurants/life, and just a better atmosphere than the Institutional vibe you get on the other side.

Still I agree with Ramsayfarian in that I wish the location was a bit more open. The massiveness of the Municipal Building will always loom, if only physically, over the Library.

[Blue_Cypress]

Originally Posted by 93JC

I'd take that bet. There's still a rectangular grid of mullions across the entire façade, and I'd bet that those are the 'real' mullions holding the system together. The smaller diagonal pieces are probably "faux mullions" that happen to break up the look of the glass but don't actually support separate sections of glass.

There's not much more to simplify. The architects made excellent design choices.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Just noticed in the renders that there isn't a Plus15 connection to City Hall or other nearby buildings.
Oversight?

Does the city not require major office developments to create plus15 infrastructure, e.g. Second level must have plus15 corridor additionally the connections to other buildings are required. Of the building is away from plus15 system, they must pay into the plus15 development fund.

Will lack of plus15 become a suburban vs urban councillor dividing issue?

Other than lack of plus15, I really like the new central library renderings. Besides, if plus 15 becomes the hill to die on, at least I will have something else to peek my council watching interest besides secondary suites and cycle track network.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Tills13

One of the Snohetta people talking at the event yesterday (apparently) said, "You could make a great plus-15...but you can also make a great street crossing"

That sounds like someone who has never been standing on "a great street crossing" in a Minus Fourty Below blizzard, where the show is blowing horizontally right in your face, you can't see your hand in front of you, and you're waiting for the light to change - hoping the red blur across the street is the 'don't walk' sign which will change into a white blur soon.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Cage

Does the city not require major office developments to create plus15 infrastructure, e.g. Second level must have plus15 corridor additionally the connections to other buildings are required. Of the building is away from plus15 system, they must pay into the plus15 development fund.

Will lack of plus15 become a suburban vs urban councillor dividing issue?

Other than lack of plus15, I really like the new central library renderings. Besides, if plus 15 becomes the hill to die on, at least I will have something else to peek my council watching interest besides secondary suites and cycle track network.

Personally, I like that Calgary has +15s, but totally get the criticism (privatization of public space, outsiders feel unwelcome, takes pedestrians and retail away from street level where they might otherwise improve vibrancy, etc). I don't mind at all that it wasn't included. +15s are an interesting feature of Downtown Calgary that give us some character, but I think the network is beginning to reach it's maximum extent. Gaps in the Network will continue to be filled in, but the real challenge is improving the interface between street and +15s so that they feel more public. What will be interesting is how future underground transit is incorporated into the +15s... some areas may have -15s!

[DizzyEdge]

I know that +15s aren't supposed to be allowed south of 12th avenue, but are they allowed throughout the EV?

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

That sounds like someone who has never been standing on "a great street crossing" in a Minus Fourty Below blizzard, where the show is blowing horizontally right in your face, you can't see your hand in front of you, and you're waiting for the light to change - hoping the red blur across the street is the 'don't walk' sign which will change into a white blur soon.

I don't know what "Minus Fourty" feels like.

Do you seriously never walk anywhere in the winter? It's just crossing the street. It's not like we are asking you to wait for a bus.

[sync]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

That sounds like someone who has never been standing on "a great street crossing" in a Minus Fourty Below blizzard, where the show is blowing horizontally right in your face, you can't see your hand in front of you, and you're waiting for the light to change - hoping the red blur across the street is the 'don't walk' sign which will change into a white blur soon.

dykers addressed this - he lived in oslo for 20 years - the climate there is only marginally warmer, on average, in the winter than calgary - and they have no +15s at all.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Wooster

When East Village builds it won't feel like that place "behind" city hall, it will be a distinct and worthy place unto itself. Like the tracks do for Beltline, city hall will continue to be a physical and psychological divider, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing (especially once 3rd is transformed). I like distinct districts, the library will be a great focal point for East Village - not an isolated outpost of the cultural area of Olympic Plaza.

I'm picking up what you're putting down and I totally agree with you. I still wish the library was a tad more prominent. Like where the DIC is now.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

I think once East Village is actually being used and lived in, your impression will change. I mean, is Telus Sky "behind" the Petro Canada building? I mean, it kind of literally is. The city currently just stops at City Hall, and I think that gives the impression you speak of.

I'm sure my impression will change. In reality, I'm just happy we got it. Who cares where it goes.

You can't really compare the library with Telus Sky, but same thing with Telus Sky, I'm just glad we got it. I do wish Telus would have chosen a better parcel of land, but that area really needs this building.

I think a bigger Catch-22 is that there's spots on Scotsman Hill where The Guardian completely blocks The Bow.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

That sounds like someone who has never been standing on "a great street crossing" in a Minus Fourty Below blizzard, where the show is blowing horizontally right in your face, you can't see your hand in front of you, and you're waiting for the light to change - hoping the red blur across the street is the 'don't walk' sign which will change into a white blur soon.

When's the last time it was -40 in Calgary? Seriously. It gets like that maybe once a year...if that. So why design a city for 0.1% of the year, when it will negatively affect the street life the other 99.9%?

And I'm pretty sure someone who works out of NY, and has lived in Norway, has experience bitter cold. Go walk down a canyon in midtown NY when it's not only bitter cold, but humid as well. You could be wearing Costanza-level Goretex and your nuts would still fall off. Funny how people there can live without +15s, yet some Calgarians still cling to this idea that we should build our cities around these exaggerated The Day After Tomorrow scenarios.

[Spring2008]

I walked to work everyday last winter and most of the second half was below average temps. Our winters are pretty mild compared to the rest of the prairies. +15's are great to get around on lunch breaks etc esp when it's cold out, but I think it's better to skip the +15's for the areas outside the core and instead spend the extra money on pedestrian realm.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I know that +15s aren't supposed to be allowed south of 12th avenue, but are they allowed throughout the EV?

Nope, 3rd SE is the boundary. To the south, the boundary is 10th Ave.

[Chadillaccc]

It's a good thing.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

When's the last time it was -40 in Calgary? Seriously. It gets like that maybe once a year...if that. So why design a city for 0.1% of the year, when it will negatively affect the street life the other 99.9%?

And I'm pretty sure someone who works out of NY, and has lived in Norway, has experience bitter cold. Go walk down a canyon in midtown NY when it's not only bitter cold, but humid as well. You could be wearing Costanza-level Goretex and your nuts would still fall off. Funny how people there can live without +15s, yet some Calgarians still cling to this idea that we should build our cities around these exaggerated The Day After Tomorrow scenarios.

Agreed! our winters aren't that bad aside from the 20 or so days when our highs are below -15. The wind seems like a bigger factor in our climate, and most of the route from the library to the LRT station will be sheltered by city hall.