The Great Canadian Skyline Thread!

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Doesn't seem to have happened in South Core despite all the tall towers going up. I was in Toronto back in 2009 and again this June and despite I could notice so much development having happened, street life in that area is still completely absent and didn't seem to have improved at all in five years.

Also the CBD gets eerily so quiet after 7pm that it doesn't feel all that comfortable to be wandering around alone. I am sure it's still safe (since this is Canada and all), but it feel completely abandoned every evening.

I don't get this same feeling anywhere in Downtown Vancouver.

I tend to agree.

Toronto certainly is a busy city but the financial district is a wasteland after 6:00.

Actually all of the financial core is a wasteland for anything but banking and this is all due to PATH. A true urban planning nightmare which saps all life out of the streets and Toronto seems intent on expanding it everywhere. With Toronto's colder climate I can certainly see the rational behind it but the problem is that it has become so large that even on nice days the streets are dead because it has sucked all the restaurants and coffee shops underground.

Even on nice days there is nothing to do and no where to go for lunch except underground to yet another food court. You can count on your hands and toes the number of restaurants at street level in the financial core.

Vancouver's financial area is miniscule compared to Toronto's but it is far busier during the day and night. Considering the massive size and concentration of towers in Toronto, it probably has the deadest financial district on the planet and because Toronto is intent on connecting everything to PATH, it will only get worse.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I tend to agree.

Toronto certainly is a busy city but the financial district is a wasteland after 6:00.

Actually all of the financial core is a wasteland for anything but banking and this is all due to PATH. A true urban planning nightmare which saps all life out of the streets and Toronto seems intent on expanding it everywhere. With Toronto's colder climate I can certainly see the rational behind it but the problem is that it has become so large that even on nice days the streets are dead because it has sucked all the restaurants and coffee shops underground.

Even on nice days there is nothing to do and no where to go for lunch except underground to yet another food court. You can count on your hands and toes the number of restaurants at street level in the financial core.

Vancouver's financial area is miniscule compared to Toronto's but it is far busier during the day and night. Considering the massive size and concentration of towers in Toronto, it probably has the deadest financial district on the planet and because Toronto is intent on connecting everything to PATH, it will only get worse.

I really don't get the problem. If the life and activity is underground rather than on the street how is that an example of bad urban planning? Pedestrian activity is still happening, people are still going to restaurants, shops are still thriving, they just happen to not be exposed to the elements or seeing pedestrians squeezed between walls and vehicle traffic. I would call it a wonderful success. The cars get their space, while pedestrians get all pedestrian pathways that they can use all year, come rain, snow, or heatwave.

[GreaterMontréal]

360 view.

http://www.devmcgill.com/condominiumm9phase4/en/360view1

[caltrane74]

OK, I will stick up for Southcore..

First off Southcore was just weeds and parking lots 6 years ago with the exception of the ACC. Of all the buildings under construction there are only a few actually complete and occupied including the Maple Leaf Square Complex, Telus and Infinity Condos. So the majority of the towers you see in the skyline photos of Toronto, are still unoccupied, including Bremner Tower, Southcore Delta Hotel, ICE Condos, and Infinity Condos - Final Phase. I'm pretty sure if you make a trip back to Southcore next year it will be a far more lively place with the inclusion of residents, tourist and office workers in the said 7 massive tower complexes.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Toronto certainly is a busy city but the financial district is a wasteland after 6:00.

Actually all of the financial core is a wasteland for anything but banking and this is all due to PATH. A true urban planning nightmare which saps all life out of the streets and Toronto seems intent on expanding it everywhere. With Toronto's colder climate I can certainly see the rational behind it but the problem is that it has become so large that even on nice days the streets are dead because it has sucked all the restaurants and coffee shops underground.

The CBD is beautiful, but I agree with you 100% about the negative effect that PATH has at street level. It's a street life killer. The CBD is slowly getting better as permanent residents move in: Trump, INDX, 1 King West. With it we're seeing a bit more life on the street and a bit more retail. We'll need another 10,000 people down there (10-15 big condo towers) to counteract PATH however. A number of buildings like 432 Park or 225 West 57th Street would go a long way to fixing the problem.

I'm not that concerned with the rest of the core. It's not built out by a long shot. Even if Toronto expands PATH all over the core and up to Yorkville, the core will likely have population density high enough to withstand the presence of PATH. Looking out 20-25 years, the core might be dense to the point that PATH will be a necessity. Street level might not be enough to handle the flood of people.

Toronto is heading towards a situation where it will be 2 level or multi level; much like Hong Kong. We'll have busy packed streets and a busy packed subterranean world all year round on both. The CBD is the big problem imo. Because it's largely built out, there aren't too many more spots to put 80-120 floor condo towers. We certainly shouldn't waste the few spots remaining on more condos the size of INDX. Without the added population the CBD won't improve much at street level. It will remain eerily dead.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I really don't get the problem. If the life and activity is underground rather than on the street how is that an example of bad urban planning? Pedestrian activity is still happening, people are still going to restaurants, shops are still thriving, they just happen to not be exposed to the elements or seeing pedestrians squeezed between walls and vehicle traffic.

Because we're human beings, not gerbils. Creating a giant underground mall and empty desolate streets isn't my idea of great urban planning.

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

360 view.

http://www.devmcgill.com/condominiumm9phase4/en/360view1

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I tend to agree.

Toronto certainly is a busy city but the financial district is a wasteland after 6:00.

Actually all of the financial core is a wasteland for anything but banking and this is all due to PATH. A true urban planning nightmare which saps all life out of the streets and Toronto seems intent on expanding it everywhere. With Toronto's colder climate I can certainly see the rational behind it but the problem is that it has become so large that even on nice days the streets are dead because it has sucked all the restaurants and coffee shops underground.

Even on nice days there is nothing to do and no where to go for lunch except underground to yet another food court. You can count on your hands and toes the number of restaurants at street level in the financial core.

Vancouver's financial area is miniscule compared to Toronto's but it is far busier during the day and night. Considering the massive size and concentration of towers in Toronto, it probably has the deadest financial district on the planet and because Toronto is intent on connecting everything to PATH, it will only get worse.

I can't comment on Vancouver's financial district's vibrancy after hours, but I find it a little unfair of people to expect any sort of vibrancy on a city's financial district after hours..Aside from maybe NYC Times square, all North American cities shut down after dark..Even the Dundas square area of Toronto or Yonge at Dundas leading up to college square gets dead in the winter on a week night..It's not a shocker though.

Originally Posted by isaidso

I lived in downtown Halifax for 10 years. I've always viewed Halifax as a quaint town, so moving downtown I had no expectations that it be busy. I just wanted a cute neighbourhood where I could walk everywhere and run into 50 people I knew within an hour or so. It satisfied all of those requirements in spades.

For Halifax's size, the downtown is extremely urbane. I'd argue that it's more vibrant than the one in Hamilton, Calgary, or Winnipeg. It's on par with Ottawa, but understandably miles behind Montreal and Toronto. I haven't been to Edmonton or Vancouver so can't comment.

Ya I suspected that Halifax's DT does real well, especially in the summer months..I met a couple of Haligonians years ago here in the Market..I remember making small talk, and I also vividly remember them saying that Halifax's DT scene was just as vibrant as Ottawa's market area patio scene during Halifax's summer. They also said it died off in the winter, but so does Ottawa. Being a port, I imagine Halifax gets a lot of people touring through in the summer, and being an older city, it must have some cool established neighbourhoods and strips.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli

Griffintown + Faubourd des Recollets + Old Montréal = incredible Mid-rise density

[FrAnKs]

I call that Midrise density.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I call that Midrise density.

you're right, looks more like Mid-rise than Low-rise. I did not drink my coffee.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Because we're human beings, not gerbils. Creating a giant underground mall and empty desolate streets isn't my idea of great urban planning.

We also aren't creatures built for temperate climates, or even cities. Malls are no more natural to us than streets are. Might as well aim for the one that keeps us at a comfortable temperature without having to worry about balancing cars and pedestrians.

[Chadillaccc]

http://calgarycitycentre.ca/

[caltrane74]

Montreal Skyline - by me

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Ramako

That's a really interesting comparison that I hadn't really considered before. Whereas many cities are defined by their unique geography, Toronto's lack of geographic markers makes having the CN Tower all the more important to Torontonians in that its function goes beyond being a mere beacon or landmark but a way of defining the space that the city occupies. In other words, it's not just a signpost but the visual and psychological centre-point of the city, away from which everything radiates. Rather than just providing a supplementary practical benefit it fulfils a more fundamental role in creating a sense of place. It's our Rocky Mountains or Mount Royal.

That’s an interesting difference that deserves more thought.

In spite of Calgary’s great skyline this place remains fundamentally connected to the surrounding nature and geography. The Bow, for example, is named after the river and is said to be shaped like a curve in the river, and EAP has white lit tops to represent the snow covered peaks of the Rockies. Telus Sky and the Manulife building are both curved and organic looking as well. From a real-estate perspective I’m sure a view of the mountains is worth more than a view of downtown, although both are valuable and there are a lot of high rise condos in this city, and quite a few houses as well, where you can have both. Also note that Douglas Cardinal grew up in Calgary, although instead of the mountains he seems to get his inspiration from the foothills, prairies and badlands.

Toronto, otoh, as you say is not closely tied to the geography around it. It’s more of a stand-alone city, in a sense. Architecturally its key buildings tend to be elegant but conservative, squared, bank and insurance buildings, and the CN Tower and Skydome. The subway is also central to its identity, it seems to me. I don't know what it all means, they are interesting differences.

[middeljohn]

Kinda crazy how Calgary has overtaken Montreal in the skyline department over the last ten years.

[isaidso]

It's also crazy that Calgary is edging close to the 200m+ building count that Toronto had just 6 years ago. In 2008, Toronto had only 6 200m+ buildings. Calgary has 5 buildings 200m+ Built or U/C.

Originally Posted by Razor

Ya I suspected that Halifax's DT does real well, especially in the summer months..I met a couple of Haligonians years ago here in the Market..I remember making small talk, and I also vividly remember them saying that Halifax's DT scene was just as vibrant as Ottawa's market area patio scene during Halifax's summer. They also said it died off in the winter, but so does Ottawa. Being a port, I imagine Halifax gets a lot of people touring through in the summer, and being an older city, it must have some cool established neighbourhoods and strips.

Halifax also benefits from being a port, home to 6 universities, and a massive military population. On weekends the downtown is packed like sardines. When ships are in town, or there's an event it's the same. Halifax has a reputation as being a rough port city where the liquor flows freely and it's quite true to form.

I remember in the 80s Halifax Mardi Gras (held on Halloween) would attract 50,000+ to Argyle Street. It was so rowdy and crowded that the city had to shut the event down.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Beedok

We also aren't creatures built for temperate climates, or even cities. Malls are no more natural to us than streets are. Might as well aim for the one that keeps us at a comfortable temperature without having to worry about balancing cars and pedestrians.

So our cities should be made desolate, empty, and barren on the surface all year round because 4 months of the year the weather doesn't co-operate? That logic would entail that we move everything in our cities into climate controlled malls. Get rid of Yonge Street, the Annex, Queen West, the Danforth, Queen's Quay, Yorkville, absolutely everything that's exposed to the elements.... and put it underground because its cold here 4 months of the year.

The quality of life at street level should always be a city's priority. Only then do you start putting some stuff underground. Having only underground amenities and a barren empty city above ground is outrageous and a major FAIL. From that POV, the CBD is not something I want to see repeated ANYWHERE in this country.

You could bet the quality of life in this country would plummet. I'd emigrate. And btw, being outside is more natural for most creatures than being indoors. There's a reason people enjoy going to the beach, parks, balconies, patios, or simply walking down the street. Human beings need that (being outside), gerbils do not. Stay indoors and see how long you last before you want to pull your hair out. I bet you wouldn't last the week.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Can't wait until the Gardiner's gone and the CN tracks are cantilevered over and developed. Could happen...

Actually, that shot looks straight out of a Corbu sketch.

[FrAnKs]

Calgary is like a Skinny man trying to bodybuild, pushing itself faster by taking steroids to get bigger