The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Vin]

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/busine...al+boom/10032088/story.html?rel=10091911

Street retail in many parts of downtown isn't really working, especially when it's away from established retail centres. Time to rethink how retail structures are constructed......

[spm2013]

....

[connect2source]

Wasn't Burrard Gateway supposed to solve a lot of the missing larger format retail in Downtown South? I believe early proposals included a large format grocery retailer, I remember even hearing rumours of Whole Foods.

Regardless the area is, at present, totally devoid or amenities especially near complexes like 888 Beach and 1000 Beach situated, waterfront, between the bridges. I know Vancouver House retail will help this area a lot.

[Denscity]

Maybe the Versace store will be worlds first flagship? The others all sound like boutiques.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by connect2source

World's first Versace Home flagship store to open in Gastown, as per Retail-Insider.

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2014/8/versace-home

310 West Cordova!.. former de-Luxe Junk space.. wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmHW9IzZYzU

[Vin]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Wasn't Burrard Gateway supposed to solve a lot of the missing larger format retail in Downtown South? I believe early proposals included a large format grocery retailer, I remember even hearing rumours of Whole Foods.

Regardless the area is, at present, totally devoid or amenities especially near complexes like 888 Beach and 1000 Beach situated, waterfront, between the bridges. I know Vancouver House retail will help this area a lot.

Yeah, I think there are still plans for a market to be included for Burrard Gateway, but the rest of the retail space will be modest-sized and mostly ground-level street shops that are proven to be not working too well. Pretty much the same idea for Vancouver House. We need something out of the box and exciting. I know I'm already getting mud flung my way for even suggesting it.

[bjan]

Pls delete

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Vin

Yeah, I think there are still plans for a market to be included for Burrard Gateway, but the rest of the retail space will be modest-sized and mostly ground-level street shops that are proven to be not working too well. Pretty much the same idea for Vancouver House. We need something out of the box and exciting. I know I'm already getting mud flung my way for even suggesting it.

Unless it's a street with a more shopping oriented feel they just don't seem to cut it and even the shops that are on the robson's/4th ave etc, how many are actually profitable? I think a lot of that street level retail is built under the expectation that the towers they are being inserted in will give them traffic. Look at the retail inserted in the OV, none of it is truly busy. Even the stuff physically in the village is pretty average (outside of the the restaurants and the liquor store). The stuff that is on second and the side streets is even worse.

Another great example is the area around cambie and broadway. None of the retailers are overly successful outside of the major anchors and they only benefit because they are who they are (whole foods, save-on... i don't even think home depot is overly busy). Also the majority of the entry into those anchors is directly from the parking garage meaning most don't hit the street, same can be said for any condo towers. Also the rents are quite high in most of these towers/developments for the street level retailer. Why would a cool independent want to risk themselves on an area that arguably sees high tenant turnover?

[SpongeG]

mom and pop retail is gonna be dead everywhere and is dead, people talk the talk but they don't support smaller businesses

[Jougho]

I noticed that the Shopper's Beauty Bar has opened on Burrard beside VS

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

mom and pop retail is gonna be dead everywhere and is dead, people talk the talk but they don't support smaller businesses

Mom and Pops can be very profitable and succesfull online.

[SpongeG]

yeah a lot of retailers have abandoned storefronts for online stores. i just think more so in a place like vancouver mom and pop stores are dying.

Smaller stores that sell unique stuff can do well but even than it seems just when you discover them they close up. A lot of stuff they stock ends up elsewhere - like there was a store on main street probably still there that was one of the only places to get barbour a few years ago now its found at club monaco and j crew etc.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

yeah a lot of retailers have abandoned storefronts for online stores. i just think more so in a place like vancouver mom and pop stores are dying.

Smaller stores that sell unique stuff can do well but even than it seems just when you discover them they close up. A lot of stuff they stock ends up elsewhere - like there was a store on main street probably still there that was one of the only places to get barbour a few years ago now its found at club monaco and j crew etc.

Its the same with restaurants as well, you have great restaurants but they must do insane amounts of turnover unless they are in the skids and then when they are in the skids and the area becomes nicer the rents become unaffordable, its a vicious cycle.

You look at all the retail centric areas and the rents just keep climbing up and up and frankly I think it has more to do with land value than the actual value of the space being leased. I think on a larger scale vancouver's retail rents aren't that expensive BUT when we are a small city they are unreasonable.

Seattle seems to be a city that independents thrive in. Lots of unique restaurants and shops and if you are a reasonable successful shop you can afford to be in a busy shopping area.

Capital hill, the "hipster" area with all the hot restaurants and cool shops is like 35-50 bucks a foot. Downtown in the shopping area 40-90 bucks a foot. Even the hottest of the hot comes in at less than a 100 a foot. And thats including CAM and taxes. Oh and don't get me started on the insanity that is commercial taxes in this city.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by theKB

Seattle seems to be a city that independents thrive in. Lots of unique restaurants and shops and if you are a reasonable successful shop you can afford to be in a busy shopping area.

Capital hill, the "hipster" area with all the hot restaurants and cool shops is like 35-50 bucks a foot. Downtown in the shopping area 40-90 bucks a foot. Even the hottest of the hot comes in at less than a 100 a foot. And thats including CAM and taxes. Oh and don't get me started on the insanity that is commercial taxes in this city.

I owned a retail store in Downtown Seattle 16 years near the Pike Place Market ( we also had one here in Vancouver ). Looks can be a little deceiving, Downtown Seattle doesn't have nearly the population of Downtown Vancouver with far less foot-traffic and for far less hours daily than Vancouver. The business day is basically over at 5 and major chain retail has also suffered more than Vancouver. Post 2008, many independent retailers on 1st Avenue shut down, almost all shut down within two blocks of our store ...as did much of Westlake Center, the entire top two levels of Pacific Place, (the high end mall with Barney's). The recovery took almost 4 years so hence, there was little demand for retail spaces, hence landlords were motivated and rents stayed low.

Having stores in both cities I could compare business on every level and as an independent there was little comparison, our Vancouver sales-per-square-foot were almost double as was our rent so it all made sense.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by connect2source

I owned a retail store in Downtown Seattle 16 years near the Pike Place Market ( we also had one here in Vancouver ). Looks can be a little deceiving, Downtown Seattle doesn't have nearly the population of Downtown Vancouver with far less foot-traffic and for far less hours daily than Vancouver. The business day is basically over at 5 and major chain retail has also suffered more than Vancouver. Post 2008, many independent retailers on 1st Avenue shut down, almost all shut down within two blocks of our store ...as did much of Westlake Center, the entire top two levels of Pacific Place, (the high end mall with Barney's). The recovery took almost 4 years so hence, there was little demand for retail spaces, hence landlords were motivated and rents stayed low.

Having stores in both cities I could compare business on every level and as an independent there was little comparison, our Vancouver sales-per-square-foot were almost double as was our rent so it all made sense.

very interesting feedback! Thanks for that

IF you had to start all over, where would you place your first store considering the way things are right now? Seattle seems more appealing with lower startup costs, as does a city like victoria which seems to be having a bit of a portland style vibe going on.

[connect2source]

Thanks!!

I'd likely choose Vancouver over Seattle, don't know too much about the Portland market.

Vancouver just seems far more sustainable during market fluctuations, that's likely due to the vast amount of off-shore money supporting our retail economy, money that is not dependant on the local economy. Our Seattle sales fluctuated greatly during the dot-com bust and the '08 crash, Vancouver was barely affected if at all.

Seattle's retail economy is quite the opposite, downtown is locally driven and not greatly supported by the local wealth which mostly keeps it's dollars on the East Side in Bellevue and Kirkland. We had many Bellevue clients but it was tough getting them downtown, they always asked about crime and parking, which I found humourous. Downtown Seattle may look great to visitors from Canada shopping for bargains but spend any amount of time there and you'll see far less busy with far fewer foreigners and money.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Related to retail-the sidewalk on the NW corner Broadway @ Cambie is being torn up and the stupidly dangerous tiles being removed.

I wonder how many lawsuits it took for someone to clue in that the design was faulty.

From what I've seen in front of London Drugs the new design is butt ugly but not hazardous.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by theKB

Unless it's a street with a more shopping oriented feel they just don't seem to cut it and even the shops that are on the robson's/4th ave etc, how many are actually profitable? I think a lot of that street level retail is built under the expectation that the towers they are being inserted in will give them traffic. Look at the retail inserted in the OV, none of it is truly busy. Even the stuff physically in the village is pretty average (outside of the the restaurants and the liquor store). The stuff that is on second and the side streets is even worse.

Another great example is the area around cambie and broadway. None of the retailers are overly successful outside of the major anchors and they only benefit because they are who they are (whole foods, save-on... i don't even think home depot is overly busy). Also the majority of the entry into those anchors is directly from the parking garage meaning most don't hit the street, same can be said for any condo towers. Also the rents are quite high in most of these towers/developments for the street level retailer. Why would a cool independent want to risk themselves on an area that arguably sees high tenant turnover?

Taking the Broadway/Cambie example, I do notice that the major anchors help bring foot traffic to the smaller shops and restaurants. As for Home Depot, it's pretty quiet because it's not exactly the right kind of retail business in that area, but I sure like it being around just for the convenience. For downtown, I think our city is mature enough for a second retail/commercial node besides Robson/PC strip.

[osirisboy]

That Home Depot seems to be a lot busier now a days. They also started validating parking which is one main reason I started going there over terminal

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

That Home Depot seems to be a lot busier now a days.

Their product mix is definitely different no so many giant sizes of things since apartment dwellers don't use massive amounts of glue & the like.