General Updates and News

[mcmcclassic]

I was just looking at a report on office vacancy rates (Q1 2014) and the numbers aren't that great. Dartmouth alone boasts vacancy rates in the ~25% range for classes A,B, and C space. Bedford is not much better.

Wonder if this will hurt rental rates in the city anytime soon...

http://cwatlantic.com/wp-content/uploads...iance_MarketBeat_Office_Q12014_FINAL.pdf

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Colin May

The City of Dartmouth sold to Dell Holdings the part of Park Avenue which abuts the their property and Dartmouth Common some time in the late 1970s and the boundary is now about 15 feet from the metal fence.
The property is best viewed at http://www.viewpoint.ca/

Interesting, but presumably "Lot P" would be required to contain some sort of right of way to and by the properties, most likely a walkway but maybe a lane?

Do you know the history of this block of land? Was it just expropriated and sold, only to be cleared and left to vacant for 40+ years? Clearly it contained single and/or multi-family homes at one point in time, then it appears that they were all taken down at once. Seems really really strange to me, unless it was part of the seniors' building project that wasn't realized?

[scooby074]

Has it been mentioned that St. Pats has been declared surplus and likely heading for demo?

"Halifax regional council has declared the old St. Patrick’s High School surplus, clearing the way for the demolition of the 1950s building and sale of the property."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1224693-way-cleared-for-st-pat-s-demolition

It will be interesting to see what goes up on that site.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by scooby074

Has it been mentioned that St. Pats has been declared surplus and likely heading for demo?

"Halifax regional council has declared the old St. Patrick’s High School surplus, clearing the way for the demolition of the 1950s building and sale of the property."
http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1224693-way-cleared-for-st-pat-s-demolition

It will be interesting to see what goes up on that site.

Great location for a couple of really tall towers 50 stories plus? ? ?
There are no view planes in the area. Imagine the views. A revolving restaurant on the top would be an incredible place for a meal.

[W.Sobchak]

delete please

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Great location for a couple of really tall towers 50 stories plus? ? ?
There are no view planes in the area. Imagine the views. A revolving restaurant on the top would be an incredible place for a meal.

I get the joke.
50 storeys HAHAHAHA.
Spend a fortune digging a hole for a parking garage and then spend another fortune building hundreds of condos/apartments, but only after finding some semi-stunned lender willing to risk financing the deal.
The Trillium has $10,000,000 of unsold condos and other unsold condos in Halifax/Dartmouth total at least $20,000,000.
The market is saturated with MT condos and apartments.

How one lender makes money :

" Timbercreek offers first and second mortgage loans to qualified borrowers, on income-producing real estate, including offices, commercial, multi-unit residential retirement communities, at competitive rates and terms. Our focus is on shorter-term, customized loans provided to experienced real estate professionals who require fast execution and flexible terms.

$500,000 to $100 million loan amounts
Customized, flexible terms designed to meet your borrowing standards
Quick turnaround and approvals
Typically shorter-term, from 6 to 60 months
Generally interest only payments or flexible amortization
Loan-to-value up to 85%
Clearly defined exit strategy "

http://www.timbercreek.com/borrowers

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I get the joke.
50 storeys HAHAHAHA.
Spend a fortune digging a hole for a parking garage and then spend another fortune building hundreds of condos/apartments, but only after finding some semi-stunned lender willing to risk financing the deal.

I really don't get this hunger for supertalls in Halifax. We have 420,000 people and modest population growth--there is no market for 50+ storey buildings. Certainly not several. Even Vancouver, an especially high-risey city, has only one building taller that 50. I would be surprised if there's even one example of a city in our size range on this continent with multiple residential supertalls. It's just not going to happen, and it has nothing to do with anti-height sentiment. It's basic market fundamentals.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don't get this hunger for supertalls in Halifax. We have 420,000 people and modest population growth--there is no market for 50+ storey buildings. Certainly not several. Even Vancouver, an especially high-risey city, has only one building taller that 50. I would be surprised if there's even one example of a city in our size range on this continent with multiple residential supertalls. It's just not going to happen, and it has nothing to do with anti-height sentiment. It's basic market fundamentals.

And even 420,000 is a huge stretch as it includes hundreds of kilometers of sparsely populated countryside.

The actual urban population is only around 300,000.

I have tried to make the point that Halifax is far, far too small a market for 50 story buildings, but some people just don't want to hear it.

I want to see more mid- and high-rise development, but let's be realistic people.

The fact is, we already have a pretty decent stock of tall-ish building for such a small city. Find any other city of 300,000 that is isolated hours away from any other city of even moderate size and compare its building stock to Halifax.

Cities like ours simply aren't full of 50 story skyscrapers.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don't get this hunger for supertalls in Halifax. We have 420,000 people and modest population growth--there is no market for 50+ storey buildings. Certainly not several. Even Vancouver, an especially high-risey city, has only one building taller that 50. I would be surprised if there's even one example of a city in our size range on this continent with multiple residential supertalls. It's just not going to happen, and it has nothing to do with anti-height sentiment. It's basic market fundamentals.

About Vancouver.... We have these view-cone laws in regards to the mountains. So it is an INCREDIBLE hassle to get something built around 50 floors done. As soon as these laws drop, though, there will be higher developments.. A lot of people disagree with the view cone laws.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I get the joke.
50 storeys HAHAHAHA.
Spend a fortune digging a hole for a parking garage and then spend another fortune building hundreds of condos/apartments, but only after finding some semi-stunned lender willing to risk financing the deal.
The Trillium has $10,000,000 of unsold condos and other unsold condos in Halifax/Dartmouth total at least $20,000,000.
The market is saturated with MT condos and apartments.

How one lender makes money :

" Timbercreek offers first and second mortgage loans to qualified borrowers, on income-producing real estate, including offices, commercial, multi-unit residential retirement communities, at competitive rates and terms. Our focus is on shorter-term, customized loans provided to experienced real estate professionals who require fast execution and flexible terms.

$500,000 to $100 million loan amounts
Customized, flexible terms designed to meet your borrowing standards
Quick turnaround and approvals
Typically shorter-term, from 6 to 60 months
Generally interest only payments or flexible amortization
Loan-to-value up to 85%
Clearly defined exit strategy "

http://www.timbercreek.com/borrowers

Colin May, more worried about developer's finances than they are since 2014.

Seriously dude, if the bubble bursts... many people are buying in at low prices / low interest rates.

You seem to think there is zero money in HRM.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don't get this hunger for supertalls in Halifax. We have 420,000 people and modest population growth--there is no market for 50+ storey buildings. Certainly not several. Even Vancouver, an especially high-risey city, has only one building taller that 50. I would be surprised if there's even one example of a city in our size range on this continent with multiple residential supertalls. It's just not going to happen, and it has nothing to do with anti-height sentiment. It's basic market fundamentals.

Not sure Vancouver is at all high-risey. They have 27 protected "mountain view" corridors that have limited height and thus deterred true high risers (unlike Toronto).

And I'm not sure you want to use Vancouver as a comparator for your argument, in any case, given anything proposed over 10m in Halifax is a damn war to get approved.

Halifax has a mere 4 buildings over 80m.

Vancouver has, by contrast, 50 that exceed 100m

Halifax has 78 buildings that are 35m or above.

Vancouver has 650 that are 35m or above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Halifax,_Nova_Scotia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Vancouver

So let's break that down by population to understand proportions.

Vancouver's metro population -- 2,476,145
HRM - 408,702

So, Vancouver has 6x our population, but over 12x our number of skyscrapers; and that's comparing 80m vs 100m.

The numbers speak for themselves-- we *don't* have a proportion amount of high rise in this city. Not a proportion amount of mid-rise.

So, I don't get all the moaning and groaning in the city-- even on this site-- whenever high rise development is proposed.

Moreover, one of the reasons why we've had so much ridiculous sprawl in this sprawling-plagued city, is that we've had very little residential development on the peninsula and the the downtown core. That has meant two things-- first, the cost of living (buying a condo or renting a nice place) has been prohibitively high, leading more people to live off the peninsula in cheaper and unregulated suburban sprawl development. This, in turn, has led over time to the downtown population to crumble (while suburbs expand) undermining downtown businesses and commercial office leasing, which in turn have slowly moved to the suburbs and biz parks too.

It's more of a downward spiral than a cycle. And part of the problem, is that whenever someone proposes something truly high rise downtown, we all hand wring and disclaim that there is no market.

People said the same thing about King's Wharf and Fares can't build those condos fast enough to meet demand. He sold out both towers before they were done.

I say bring on the development, even bring on the glut; if anything, it'll bring down prices, making downtown buying and renting cheaper, to making downtown living more affordable to a wider range of people and families. This will help reverse the downward sprawl cycle. Further, we're living in a time of remarkably low interest rates. That won't last forever. So may as well build now, and build tall, before things get expensive again.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by portapetey

And even 420,000 is a huge stretch as it includes hundreds of kilometers of sparsely populated countryside.

The actual urban population is only around 300,000.

I have tried to make the point that Halifax is far, far too small a market for 50 story buildings, but some people just don't want to hear it.

I want to see more mid- and high-rise development, but let's be realistic people.

The fact is, we already have a pretty decent stock of tall-ish building for such a small city. Find any other city of 300,000 that is isolated hours away from any other city of even moderate size and compare its building stock to Halifax.

Cities like ours simply aren't full of 50 story skyscrapers.

Disagree. See post above responding to Dry's (similar) point.

[curnhalio]

Originally Posted by Colin May

The Trillium has $10,000,000 of unsold condos and other unsold condos in Halifax/Dartmouth total at least $20,000,000.
The market is saturated with MT condos and apartments.

Units in The Trillium go for the $1M range and higher. Bryant Realty lists one available at $2.2M, and another at $899,900. According to The Trillium site, there are 84 units and they claim that 98% are sold. Which would mean that only 2 or 3 are vacant. I wonder if that $4.9M penthouse is one of them, which would seriously inflate that figure.

As for this 6399 North development, I am not a fan. I happen to think the current building is very cool looking. I like the stone. They're taking a good building and screwing it up.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Not sure Vancouver is at all high-risey. They have 27 protected "mountain view" corridors that have limited height and thus deterred true high risers (unlike Toronto).

And I'm not sure you want to use Vancouver as a comparator for your argument, in any case, given anything proposed over 10m in Halifax is a damn war to get approved.

Halifax has a mere 4 buildings over 80m.

Vancouver has, by contrast, 50 that exceed 100m

Halifax has 78 buildings that are 35m or above.

Vancouver has 650 that are 35m or above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Halifax,_Nova_Scotia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Vancouver

So let's break that down by population to understand proportions.

Vancouver's metro population -- 2,476,145
HRM - 408,702

So, Vancouver has 6x our population, but over 12x our number of skyscrapers; and that's comparing 80m vs 100m.

The numbers speak for themselves-- we *don't* have a proportion amount of high rise in this city. Not a proportion amount of mid-rise.

So, I don't get all the moaning and groaning in the city-- even on this site-- whenever high rise development is proposed.

Moreover, one of the reasons why we've had so much ridiculous sprawl in this sprawling-plagued city, is that we've had very little residential development on the peninsula and the the downtown core. That has meant two things-- first, the cost of living (buying a condo or renting a nice place) has been prohibitively high, leading more people to live off the peninsula in cheaper and unregulated suburban sprawl development. This, in turn, has led over time to the downtown population to crumble (while suburbs expand) undermining downtown businesses and commercial office leasing, which in turn have slowly moved to the suburbs and biz parks too.

It's more of a downward spiral than a cycle. And part of the problem, is that whenever someone proposes something truly high rise downtown, we all hand wring and disclaim that there is no market.

People said the same thing about King's Wharf and Fares can't build those condos fast enough to meet demand. He sold out both towers before they were done.

I say bring on the development, even bring on the glut; if anything, it'll bring down prices, making downtown buying and renting cheaper, to making downtown living more affordable to a wider range of people and families. This will help reverse the downward sprawl cycle. Further, we're living in a time of remarkably low interest rates. That won't last forever. So may as well build now, and build tall, before things get expensive again.

I don't think you can pick an arbitrary building height and scale it like that, saying, for example, "if a city of 1,000,000 has 50 60-story buildings, then a city of 100,000 should have 5." It's not that simple. A city Of 100,000 doesn't have any 60 story buildings. No one would expect to see one in Moncton, for example.

And you're still trying to pit the "skyscraper rate" of a metro area with contiguous urban populations totalling 2.5 million to a "regional municipality" with an urban population of 300,000 plus another 120-odd thousand scattered loosely throughout surrounding rural villages. They're just not analogous types of communities.

I'd again suggest finding a few other relatively isolated cities of 300,000 without huge commuter sheds across North America, and show me one that is full of skyscrapers of dramatically higher in heights or numbers than Halifax. I bet you won't find any.

And again, I want more development in Halifax. I would love to see more mid or high rise buildings in Halifax, and more modernity. But I think it unreasonable to expect such a small city to suddenly crop up with a skyscraper city of 40 to 60 story buildings, like, for example, Vancouver or Panama City.

[portapetey]

I think I'd have to add too that Vancouver seems to Have an unusually dense skyline for a city of its size. From a distance, that skyline looks almost as broad and dense as, say, Hong Kong or Manhattan - much larger cities. The other other city I cited, Panama City, is also one I find is unusually dense.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by curnhalio

Units in The Trillium go for the $1M range and higher. Bryant Realty lists one available at $2.2M, and another at $899,900. According to The Trillium site, there are 84 units and they claim that 98% are sold. Which would mean that only 2 or 3 are vacant. I wonder if that $4.9M penthouse is one of them, which would seriously inflate that figure.

As for this 6399 North development, I am not a fan. I happen to think the current building is very cool looking. I like the stone. They're taking a good building and screwing it up.

Don't worry, this guy makes spurious claims based upon questionable information.

For us young people, build build build developers! If this bubble bursts, we'll all be buying in at low prices. Its called supply and demand and the developers put themselves at risk, but I don't think they build if they didn't think they could sell to at least recover their costs.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Don't worry, this guy makes spurious claims based upon questionable information.

For us young people, build build build developers! If this bubble bursts, we'll all be buying in at low prices. Its called supply and demand and the developers put themselves at risk, but I don't think they build if they didn't think they could sell to at least recover their costs.

Don't have a clue do you ?
You don't know where to find the information.
Building has 85 units
Here are the 13 unsold units : 1003, 1102, 1103, 1301, 1303, 1305, 1205, 801, 803, 306, 1901, 1902, 602.
Information accurate as of July 22 2014
'Unsold' means never sold and does not include units being re-sold.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

People said the same thing about King's Wharf and Fares can't build those condos fast enough to meet demand. He sold out both towers before they were done.

I can assure you that one condo, 31 King's Wharf Place, sold very well.
The condo next to the train tracks, 15 King's Wharf Place did not sell well at all. ( Sales to independent buyers were very low. )

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Don't have a clue do you ?
You don't know where to find the information.
Building has 85 units
Here are the 13 unsold units : 1003, 1102, 1103, 1301, 1303, 1305, 1205, 801, 803, 306, 1901, 1902, 602.
Information accurate as of July 22 2014
'Unsold' means never sold and does not include units being re-sold.

It is you who does not have a clue because you have yet to explain, for buyers and the general public, why oversupply is bad for us?

More on the market that doesn't move will lead to lower prices... if it doesn't, I can't see how developers will be able to sit on properties given the costs.

Please explain, I'd love to hear it as a person looking to eventually buy in HRM. I'm all ears, seriously.

[Ziobrop]

I agree an oversupply is a good thing.. Unless you get paid a percentage of the sale price for brokering the sale and the oversupply keeps prices low.