ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Verge]

The scale is fine-- the architecture is another matter-- very weak...

[ATLcubs]

Originally Posted by mayhem

This project is so terribly out of place, it hurts. However, in Downtown's case, anything built is a step forward. Not sure where y'all are seeing retail for this project because it seems there will be zero.

I guess I must have just assumed there was retail, because now that I think of it, I never heard anything about retail. Looking at the Centennial Park side of the development it appears like there's retail, or at least space drawn in the rendering, so i made the assumption without really knowing anything about the retail.

[echinatl]

I've lived downtown for 7 years and I LOVE this project. IMO it's the most exciting project that is on the drawing board! Do I wish it was 80 stories - yes, do I wish it had retail - yes. But that area of downtown needs residential so bad, and the existing lots are so crappy looking (these aren't just bare surface lots, they are old shitty looking surface lots) that this can only be viewed as a win. If these sell out or does well it makes it possible to get the tower and grocery store we all want.

[micropundit]

St. Clair Holdings submitted a building permit application to City of Atlanta Thursday to develop land, at 19 Weatherby St., in preparation for 66 new homes.The development, Weatherby Townhouse and Flats, will include 46 townhouses and 20 flats, according to St. Clair’s website. The community will feature five different home styles and is located directly on the corridor of the Atlanta Beltline.

A chief objective for the project is to achieve high levels of sustainability and energy efficiency,” the developer said about the project on its website.
“Sustainable features on the project will include Energy Star rated residential appliances, low-flow plumbing fixtures, native drought tolerant landscaping (green roof and site landscaping), a community garden space, regional building materials (within a 500 mile radius of the project), low VOC emitting adhesives, sealants, paints, coatings, and carpets, and an aggressive construction waste management program designed to divert a minimum of 75 percent of construction waste from the landfill.”
The project was designed by EOA Architects of Nashville, TN.( The render is one of their Nashville projects)


http://www.whatnowatlanta.com/2014/07/17/plans-filed-for-66-reynoldstown-homes/

[bryantm3]

the scale is OK for now, and i like the little area with stoops on simpson street.

in fact, that stretch of street is just so short and inconsequential for vehicle traffic, i think they ought to close it off and make it pedestrian-only. maybe they can even make a 'stepped' street lined with trees, like this:



imagine walking down that to get to centennial park!

however, i think the project needs more retail spaces, especially on williams.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by echinatl

I've lived downtown for 7 years and I LOVE this project. IMO it's the most exciting project that is on the drawing board! Do I wish it was 80 stories - yes, do I wish it had retail - yes. But that area of downtown needs residential so bad, and the existing lots are so crappy looking (these aren't just bare surface lots, they are old shitty looking surface lots) that this can only be viewed as a win. If these sell out or does well it makes it possible to get the tower and grocery store we all want.

I get your train of thought. I've been downtown for 10 years myself (do I win a cookie? Lol) and as I said it's better to get something than continue to have nothing but 400 units aren't going to make the kind of impact we need to get the Allen Plaza Publix on the way.

This design still belongs in Dunwoody.

[PremierAtlanta]

I don't mind the architecture as much as I wish they were perhaps 10-12 stories tall. If this development was adding 800 units as opposed to 400, it could make quite the impact to the neighborhood. After all things are considered, I think it is good for that area. Perhaps something on the scale of 782 Peachtree would have been better received by most. A 782 clone would be great in that location.

[ATLcubs]

Random question but it was something I was curious about: Why doesn't Atlanta have any threads in the "highrise construction" section of the forum? I noticed that a lot of other cities do and Atlanta has a few towers that fit the description of what goes in that section including the student housing towers, Yoo on the park, and the three going up in buckhead. I was just curious if there was a reason, because if not I'd be glad to start some.

[Atlanta3000]

Something is never better than nothing. Shit begets shit. Sorry for the language Ladies!

Tell me why it makes sense for Post to build a 19 Story high-rise above 7 parking levels one block from single family houses in Buckhead (I live on Longleaf Drive), a 23 story high-rise in Midtown, but people are excited Post is proposing a 5 story development in a high-rise district in downtown Atlanta?



Remember this is what Post was proposing on this site 4-5 years ago.



Folks - expect and demand more!!!!

[ATLcubs]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Something is never better than nothing. Shit begets shit. Sorry for the language Ladies!

Tell me why it makes sense for Post to build a 19 Story high-rise above 7 parking levels one block from single family houses in Buckhead (I live on Longleaf Drive), a 23 story high-rise in Midtown, but people are excited Post is proposing a 5 story development in a high-rise district in downtown Atlanta?

I hear what you're saying and i agree, that rendering from 4 or 5 years ago does look good, but that was right at the beginning of the recession and things have changed since then, including maybe the demand for a skyscraper downtown. But I do agree that it's a little out of whack for the mid-rise to be there, even though I'll be happy when the construction of it is underway.

[atlantaguy]

Atlanta3000, that original pre-recession Post proposal also included an aloft Hotel, which has now located across the street.

I'm sure if you wanted to be an equity partner with Post on this development, they may reconsider their plans. That's about the only way "expecting and demanding more" could be accomplished.

These are absolutely hideous, nasty surface lots this will replace. Bring it on - and when they rapidly fill up, the other blocks in the neighborhood can support higher and denser development.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Atlanta3000, that original pre-recession Post proposal also included an aloft Hotel, which has now located across the street.

I'm sure if you wanted to be an equity partner with Post on this development, they may reconsider their plans. That's about the only way "expecting and demanding more" could be accomplished.

These are absolutely hideous, nasty surface lots this will replace. Bring it on - and when they rapidly fill up, the other blocks in the neighborhood can support higher and denser development.

With all do respect atlantaguy, I am resident of Atlanta, a taxpayer of the County of Fulton and someone that would fall into the top 5% of taxpayers in income and property taxes for this area. I believe I have earned the right to state an opinion without being an equity partner in this development....thank you very much!

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

With all do respect atlantaguy, I am resident of Atlanta, a taxpayer of the County of Fulton and someone that would fall into the top 5% of taxpayers in income and property taxes for this area. I believe I have earned the right to state an opinion without being an equity partner in this development....thank you very much!

Well, how nice for you!

Then just exactly how do you suggest that we "demand more"? I can certainly understand expecting more, but let's face facts. These nasty blocks are a drag on North Downtown/Allen Plaza.

I would much rather see this get built versus holding out for something 'better' that may be years away.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Well, how nice for you!

Then just exactly how do you suggest that we "demand more"? I can certainly understand expecting more, but let's face facts. These nasty blocks are a drag on North Downtown/Allen Plaza.

I would much rather see this get built versus holding out for something 'better' that may be years away.

Yes it ls nice and thanks for pointing it out, but I have had to work hard to achieve where I am at - it's not family money.

How do we demand more? EASY. We zone the area for high-rise residential. If the free market does not create the demand, the city can give tax incentives to spur the high-rise residential development. If the free market still does not drive demand for this type of development, the city could then offer tax free bonds to finance the development just as Tivoli received to start Yoo on the Park in Midtown.

Any other questions atlantaguy?

[ATLcubs]

I went ahead and made a thread for centergy north on the highrise construction thread, and i plan to make threads for the remaining highrises under construction either later tonight or tomorrow. Anything added to thread would be much appreciated.

[ATL_J]

Interesting article on "Optimal Building Height" I came across recently.

I struggle to understand people's complaints. This project is eating up multiple blocks of surface street parking, bringing active uses to many of the roads (ground level entrances and what appears to be retail along COP Drive), and bringing 400+ residents downtown. Despite some remarks, this is not a "high rise" district nor is it filled with high density or demand (considering this is the first residential project downtown in how long, I think that goes without saying). The museums and attractions across the street are sprawling single story attractions, the condos on W. Peachtree are 7 stories tall, caddy-corner is a neighborhood mostly comprised of two to three story townhomes / apartments, there's a stand alone Waffle House down the road, a Best-Western Hotel closer to Peachtree that's 4 stories tall, and I could go on and on.

Most high rises are vertical cul-de-sacs, meaning they can be very harmful to the urban environment. Look at Post Alexander, which some of you seem to be lauding. It's an impersonal high rise, on top of a parking deck, that does nothing to activate the street. There's a reason Buckhead is so "dead" in regards to urban activity. It's because they're all about high rises and not about the urban environment and I find it amusing that so many that want a lively city would seek to mimic that. I understand towers are neat, but towers aren't the solution to everything. Look at a city like Paris. Would you argue that any of it's low rise residential buildings aren't good enough? No, it's a great city, precisely because it has tons of low rise residential. Atlanta's issue isn't space. We have tons of space and we need to fill so we don't have all these vacant lots and underused real estate to make neighborhoods more inviting and active. This is exactly what this development does.

I would take this over any of the other Post proposals that have been put forth so far. This is perfect for the area, despite some people's illusions.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

Interesting article on "Optimal Building Height" I came across recently.

I struggle to understand people's complaints. This project is eating up multiple blocks of surface street parking, bringing active uses to many of the roads (ground level entrances and what appears to be retail along COP Drive), and bringing 400+ residents downtown. Despite some remarks, this is not a "high rise" district nor is it filled with high density or demand (considering this is the first residential project downtown in how long, I think that goes without saying). The museums and attractions across the street are sprawling single story attractions, the condos on W. Peachtree are 7 stories tall, caddy-corner is a neighborhood mostly comprised of two to three story townhomes / apartments, there's a stand alone Waffle House down the road, a Best-Western Hotel closer to Peachtree that's 4 stories tall, and I could go on and on.

Most high rises are vertical cul-de-sacs, meaning they can be very harmful to the urban environment. Look at Post Alexander, which some of you seem to be lauding. It's an impersonal high rise, on top of a parking deck, that does nothing to activate the street. There's a reason Buckhead is so "dead" in regards to urban activity. It's because they're all about high rises and not about the urban environment and I find it amusing that so many that want a lively city would seek to mimic that. I understand towers are neat, but towers aren't the solution to everything. Look at a city like Paris. Would you argue that any of it's low rise residential buildings aren't good enough? No, it's a great city, precisely because it has tons of low rise residential. Atlanta's issue isn't space. We have tons of space and we need to fill so we don't have all these vacant lots and underused real estate to make neighborhoods more inviting and active. This is exactly what this development does.

I would take this over any of the other Post proposals that have been put forth so far. This is perfect for the area, despite some people's illusions.

Sorry I was mistaken

This area doesn't have density and a 5 story apartment building is appropriate. What was I thinking'??????



Clearly this area has more density and is more deserving of a high-rise development.




Any questions, atlantaguy?

[ATLcubs]

The project is what it is and nothing is going to change it except for the people approving it or the people developing it.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by ATLcubs

The project is what it is and nothing is going to change it except for the people approving it or the people developing it.

Exactly.

AGAIN, this is replacing two square blocks of nasty, derelict parking lots that have remained fallow for YEARS.

I guess some would rather this corner of the supposed "Core" remain that way if their unrealistic wants aren't met.

Hence, the equity partner suggestion.

[simms3_redux]

Small lot sizes are preferred for urban development. Small lot sizes are conducive for 3-8 stories, and are conducive for natural variation in architecture, spacing, and design, not forced. These are large lots (which is a perpetual problem in Atlanta). I wish the city had foresight to make smaller lots that would appeal to smaller developers who have the kind of equity and local/design expertise for smaller developments that would allow for more "residential over retail". The difficulty with the smaller lots in a market like Atlanta is parking - you still have to provide at least a space per bedroom, which requires that massive garage (and rents are not high enough to justify subterranean).

Unfortunately, I think the design is antiquated and very very fitting for Dunwoody, Vinings, parts of Buckhead, or Central Perimeter. You can be sure the materials won't be very high quality, that it will be standard Type III construction, and that the architecture itself is highly recycled in every metro in Post's portfolio (faux brick, wood, and stone, none of which is fitting for Atlanta's more historic downtown core).

It's hard to make retail work in these kinds of developments. The depths, bays, and layouts are not conducive to much more than commercial banks or Subways. And given that there isn't much demand yet, clearly Post is attempting to seem like it's "activating" the streets by having some units open up onto the streets, townhouse style, like their project on 10th. That is not the same thing. Given the lack of anything else around there and the higher crime (as opposed to Blake's and Piedmont Park for the other project), I'm sure the 10 residents who have street access will not use that access to the point of creating a thriving, bustling sidewalk scene.

At the end of the day <$2psf rents are simply not enough to justify either a high rise or truly quality materials/superior design. Midtown and Buckhead will have superior Post products from every kind of standpoint simply because they are both now seeing $2.25psf new construction rents. Post Alexander doesn't activate the street, but neither does this project. Both simply "take up" formerly vacant lots. That's fine, but it's apparent that Post Alexander has superior architecture and superior materials.

I'm longing for the day that either Atlanta rents reach the point of supporting better design, that transit is improved enough to warrant less parking in places like Midtown, and/or that Atlanta planners find the perfect balance between zoning and feasibility to support smaller scale infill that really does a better job of organically creating a more urban environment.

I agree with both sides here:

This is shitty design that is more fitting for Dunwoody.

but

Unfortunately, this is what zoning and feasibility are supporting for that site and two large vacant blocks are now being used/built up.

Pros vs cons, it's kinda' hard to really weigh in on whether long term this is a net positive or if it will end up being a net negative due to lack of proper zoning/planning/design review.