Calgary International Airport II - Page 65

LO 044 · #**1281** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 1:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

To answer your questions:
1) WS had the 732 until late 2005 or early 2006 (like cold January when Don Bell flew the last WS 732 out of YYC). The 732 was originally supposed to last until 2008-2010 timeframe, but a fuel cost spike and Jetsgo competition caused their accelerated withdrawal. The associated asset writedown was WS only period of unprofitability.
2) There are serious discussions about whether the 358 will ever be built or whether the overwhelming preference will be 359. The 358 is all ready too big of airplane for WS, the 359 is a nonstarter. For the record I am of the opinion the 358 will turn out like the 736 and 318, smaller aircraft are not popular and resale value is a big reason not to buy them.
3) The only reason for WS not to refurbish the widebody interior is because they could not secure seats. Many airlines are going through interior modifications right now and the lead time is quite lengthy. Business Class seats are the major bottleneck, but new economy seats are in short supply.
4) From Johny Aussie's assessment above and my perusal of Flyertalk QF forum, the 763s interiors have been retread but no major change to the seats.
5) WS will most definitely want to to Rouge/Transat their widebody product with new seats. The metrics on widebody are significant cost savings with transition to slim line seats (less fuel burn) plus there is the addition of 1-2 rows and no loss of pax comfort. New slim line seats drive down costs (through less weight on airplane), reduce CASM by increasing the pax count, increase revenue by increasing pax count.
6) Let me reiterate, WS has no plans to join and alliance(this goes against their business model and would require huge dollar investment), operate domestic or international business class. Consider that current business class product is 180 lie flat bed that is very expensive to purchase and operate. The last generation of recliner style Business Class products is what is now Premium Rouge and Air Transat big seat.
7) In place of joining an alliance, WS will form codeshare agreements with specific airlines, much like what they do today however outbound codeshare will be greatly expanded. I can see code share with BA and AF but less so potential with KLM. KLM has done a good job carving out a niche in the Canadian TransAt market and does not want WS to eat their lunch.

If what you're saying comes to fruition then WestJet will become a glorified Air Transat albeit with the possibility of connections. Winter ops will be all sun destinations and summer European destinations will be 99% from YYZ where the passenger base is large and ideal for niche European destinations.

Bigtime · #**1282** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 1:55 PM**

Played Silverwing golf course yesterday for the first time, it is the newish course (2006) just in front of 35R.

Awesome for a golfer and an avgeek, they've embraced the aviation thread there and have the clubhouse covered in aviation decor.

Compared to McCall lake the aircraft are much closer/lower on approach to 35R than 35L at McCall. A few times I actually waited after an aircraft passed to make my shot, as I do believe there was a good chance your ball could encounter some wake turbulence (which you could hear on almost every passing aircraft a few seconds later).

Nothing like playing one hole and getting to see the KFC DC-10 landing just a couple hundred feet away from you, and then Speedbird arriving from LHR.

Oh I'll be back, many times.

#**1283** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044

If what you're saying comes to fruition then WestJet will become a glorified Air Transat albeit with the possibility of connections. Winter ops will be all sun destinations and summer European destinations will be 99% from YYZ where the passenger base is large and ideal for niche European destinations.

I don't see that happening unless somebody else comes in to carry domestic traffic, of which WestJet carries a huge portion. AC alone can't do it.

Cage · #**1284** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044

If what you're saying comes to fruition then WestJet will become a glorified Air Transat albeit with the possibility of connections. Winter ops will be all sun destinations and summer European destinations will be 99% from YYZ where the passenger base is large and ideal for niche European destinations.

Actually I fully expect WS widebody to be very much like AC rouge. winter season heavy in the sun destinations but there will still be a few european flights. Summer season will be heavy European traffic, but likely still Western Canada based in the beginning.

One thing I do expect is that initial training route will be YYC-LAS. WS will combine two evening departures to LAS, this will be temporary to allow for maximum pilot training efficiency.

I don't expect WS to put the 763 onto YYC-YYZ. The problem with YYC-YYZ is that it is frequency dependant route, that is the amount of frequency is key to charging higher yields. YYC-LAS is different, frequency does not matter as the traffic is vacationers.

If WS were to put 763 onto YYC-YYZ AC would eat their lunch. Its a classic network scheduling conundrum that put widebody domestic service out of business. Premise goes something like this.
- In order to fill wide body airplane, airline X cannot run with high frequency and must combine departure times to get enough pax to make the flight possible. Instead of hourly narrowbody departures the company has 10:30am narrowbody, noon widebody, and 2:30pm narrowbody.
- As a competitive response, the primary competitor airline Z sticks to hourly narrowbody departures.
- Passenger A wants to travel. Their most preferable time is Noon. This passenger has choice between airlines.
- Passenger B wants to travel. Their most preferable time is 11am. 10:30am is too early departure and noon flight causes arrival time to be too late. Therefore passenger B cannot fly with airline X.
- Passenger C want to travel, Their most preferred time is 1:30pm. Noon flight is too early as they need to attend a early morning meeting, consequently 2:30pm is too late and has too much waiting time at the airport. Their only choice is 1pm airline Z.

As demonstrated above, airline X widebody service is only preferable in 1/3 passengers. where as airline Z narrowbody shuttle service is preferable in 3/3 passengers. This scenario is the primary reason for the introduction of high frequency small airplane size service.

A real life example is preEncore YYC-YEG route where AC beat WS with a bunch of old but smaller dash 8. Ws could not compete with AC on price or service.

lubicon · #**1285** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 8:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Played Silverwing golf course yesterday for the first time, it is the newish course (2006) just in front of 35R.

Awesome for a golfer and an avgeek, they've embraced the aviation thread there and have the clubhouse covered in aviation decor.

Compared to McCall lake the aircraft are much closer/lower on approach to 35R than 35L at McCall. A few times I actually waited after an aircraft passed to make my shot, as I do believe there was a good chance your ball could encounter some wake turbulence (which you could hear on almost every passing aircraft a few seconds later).

Nothing like playing one hole and getting to see the KFC DC-10 landing just a couple hundred feet away from you, and then Speedbird arriving from LHR.

Oh I'll be back, many times.

Silverwing is awesome for avgeeks. I haven't played it since 35L opened but you could clearly see how close that runway is (or seems to be). Landings on 29 and in particular 26 are also fun to watch/experience. When Canadian North is landing their 737's on 26 in the evening it is a treat as well.

Riise · #**1286** Posted **Jul 11, 2014, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

My money on the first casualty is BA, cut YYC and shrink YVR and YYZ, stem losses by entering into code share joint marketing agreement with WS.

BA has become my family's preferred airline when shuttling between London and Calgary, I really hope they can make it work at YYC.

Cage · #**1287** Posted **Jul 12, 2014, 12:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise

BA has become my family's preferred airline when shuttling between London and Calgary, I really hope they can make it work at YYC.

If you love BA, do you buy up to WT+?

Read above, for BA to work, most pax need to buy up. The lack of buy up is what sunk LH out of YYC and it will sink BA too.

Full Mountain · #**1288** Posted **Jul 12, 2014, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

If you love BA, do you buy up to WT+?

Read above, for BA to work, most pax need to buy up. The lack of buy up is what sunk LH out of YYC and it will sink BA too.

Is there any premium economy product out there that has additional seat width, while the extra recline and pitch is nice, having a few more inches of width and/or not having to share an arm rest would make the product much more appealing to me. Currently there is little reason to upgrade if I can secure a exit row.

Experienced the KLM Business product on the way home from AMS earlier this week, definitely made the flight much more enjoyable, going to be hard to move back in the cabin again.

Edit: 2000th post

Canadian74 · #**1289** Posted **Jul 12, 2014, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Is there any premium economy product out there that has additional seat width, while the extra recline and pitch is nice, having a few more inches of width and/or not having to share an arm rest would make the product much more appealing to me. Currently there is little reason to upgrade if I can secure a exit row.

Experienced the KLM Business product on the way home from AMS earlier this week, definitely made the flight much more enjoyable, going to be hard to move back in the cabin again.

Edit: 2000th post

BA WT+ is a true premium economy product. It has wider seats as you mention along with more legroom, upgraded meals, separate cabin, etc. Totally different from KLM's Economy Comfort which is basically regular economy with a couple of extra inches of legroom. Of course the BA product is much more expensive than KLM also.

Cage · #**1290** Posted **Jul 12, 2014, 6:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Is there any premium economy product out there that has additional seat width, while the extra recline and pitch is nice, having a few more inches of width and/or not having to share an arm rest would make the product much more appealing to me. Currently there is little reason to upgrade if I can secure a exit row.

Experienced the KLM Business product on the way home from AMS earlier this week, definitely made the flight much more enjoyable, going to be hard to move back in the cabin again.

Edit: 2000th post

AC premium economy on the 77HD and 787 is true premium economy with increased seat width. Also the primary meal is served from the J cabin galley,however the secondary meal (eg breakfast) is served from the economy galley.

Premium rouge on the 763 is also tie premium economy.

As mentioned above BA WT+ is premium economy.

QF and NZ also have premium economy on the wide body.

Not true premium economy is UA, AC narrow body, DL, AA, WS, B6.

Full Mountain · #**1291** Posted **Jul 12, 2014, 8:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian74

BA WT+ is a true premium economy product. It has wider seats as you mention along with more legroom, upgraded meals, separate cabin, etc. Totally different from KLM's Economy Comfort which is basically regular economy with a couple of extra inches of legroom. Of course the BA product is much more expensive than KLM also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

AC premium economy on the 77HD and 787 is true premium economy with increased seat width. Also the primary meal is served from the J cabin galley,however the secondary meal (eg breakfast) is served from the economy galley.

Premium rouge on the 763 is also tie premium economy.

As mentioned above BA WT+ is premium economy.

QF and NZ also have premium economy on the wide body.

Not true premium economy is UA, AC narrow body, DL, AA, WS, B6.

Thanks for the info. We paid for the upgrade to Business on the return (we were in economy comfort going) and we'll definitely look at a true premium economy product for our next long haul.

YYCspotter · #**1292** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 3:36 PM**

Qatar 77F about to land on 17L!

Bigtime · #**1293** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 4:04 PM**

Oh hello Qatar Cargo:

Aegis · #**1294** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 6:54 PM**

Wow, that's one I wouldn't have expected to see here.

I went out to that spotting area last week (Weds night) and not a single plane went by.. I guess wind conditions were not conducive to plane spotting in that area. Saw one missed approach by a Westjet 737 on the new runway but that was it.

Hoping for more tonight/tomorrow.

Bigtime · #**1295** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 7:28 PM**

The taxiway Romeo spot is hit and miss when the 17's are active. It seems like most arrivals on 17L can stop well short of it and get the parallel taxiways to the north back to the terminal area. I was banking on the Qatar 777 eating up more runway on landing and getting the Romeo-Foxtrot taxi by WS.

When the 35's are active more aircraft seem to be getting taxi instructions to 35R via that route.

suburbia · #**1296** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Oh hello Qatar Cargo:

What's it doing here? I may have missed a prior discussion on it.

Are any more of these types of international players checkin' Calgary's new terminal possibilities out?

Bigtime · #**1297** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 7:48 PM**

It was most likely a charter for horses from Spruce Meadows, it departed to Liege, Belgium afterwards.

Very little chance that the new terminal suddenly sees us getting airlines like this.

Cage · #**1298** Posted **Jul 14, 2014, 11:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

It was most likely a charter for horses from Spruce Meadows, it departed to Liege, Belgium afterwards.

Very little chance that the new terminal suddenly sees us getting airlines like this.

Qatar has approval for at least 3 weekly frequencies to Canada. If YUL does not work out for them, it is possible they might try for YYC with the 788.

Unfortunately for us, it appears that QR has backed away from Star. Would have been nice for QR to join Star and start 3-4 weekly service YYC-DOH to cover the YYC to ME requirements. They could have handed the YUL route to AC who would turn around and switch the flights to YYZ. From the desk of Don Quixote, airline network planner.

thegx · #**1299** Posted **Jul 15, 2014, 12:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

Unfortunately for us, it appears that QR has backed away from Star.

Appears? They've already joined oneworld, can't get clearer than that.

MrBigStuff · #**1300** Posted **Jul 15, 2014, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon

Silverwing is awesome for avgeeks. I haven't played it since 35L opened but you could clearly see how close that runway is (or seems to be). Landings on 29 and in particular 26 are also fun to watch/experience. When Canadian North is landing their 737's on 26 in the evening it is a treat as well.

Does 08 - 26 now no longer have weight restrictions - as it has in the past???
If not - did this change when the numbers were changed???

I'm on the understanding that a B737-200 weighs about 51 tons.