Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[SLC Projects]

I think SLC will get a MLB team long before an NFL team. I don't think SLC is even big enough yet to support an NFL team, but just big enough for a baseball team. The Salt Lake Bees ( AAA ) gets plenty of support here.
As for us getting an NFL team, I remember fox13 news did a story on this about five years ago when a reporter called the NFL telling them he was doing a story on a "what if" the NFL looks at either expanding to Salt Lake or moving a team here and they told him............."it's going to be a short story" in other words Salt Lake isn't even on the NFL's radar.

[asies1981]

Update on the Hardage Project at 800 East and 400 South.

[Makid]

For 10 years out, here are my predictions.

Late 2014 - Mia Love will not be declared the winner of the 4th Congressional District as the district votes against Mia by nearly 2 to 1.
Late 2014 - Announcement of who will be the contractor for the CCH
Late 2014 - Construction begins on 151 and 111 has steel rising above street level
2015 - Legislature allows an increase in taxes for transit options
2015 - Legislature issues $1.5 Billion in bonds for Road projects
2015 - Location and design released for CCH (43 Stories @ 616`)
Late 2015 - Tax increase for Transit projects passes with the clarification that this will be used to increase bus service and reliability as well as to double track FrontRunner.
2016 - CCH fully under construction
2016 - Begin Frontrunner double tracking with intended speeds of 110mph between 4am and 12:30am Monday through Saturday.
2016 - 750 Room Hotel Announced adjacent to the SPCC
2016 - SPCC Expansion announced - adding an additional 250,000 sq ft of exhibit space.
2017 - 151 and 111 both complete each at 65% occupancy by the end of the year
2017 - Begin construction of SLC Street Car
2017 - Begin double tracking of Sugar House Street Car
2018 - BRT Lines open along 5600W, Provo/Orem and South Davis
2018 - UTA hits all time ridership high of 250,000 across all forms of transit.
2018 - Investment Bank announces major expansion in Downtown SLC to build new tower.
2019 - UTA opens fully double tracked Frontrunner, averages 55,000 daily riders 6 months after opening due to the speed of transit with 15 minute frequency.
2019 - Salt Lake Street Car completed down to Granary District
2020 - UTA fully realized it's goal of doubling ridership on all transit forms by end of Q1. Daily ridership for UTA now over 300K weekday.
2020 - With increased ridership, TOD expansion multiplies. SoSaLa begins to bloom and construction begins on 40 story residential building in the 2100S TOD/Redevelopment area.
2021 - Millenials continue to increase their push for downtown living. Delloy Hansen releases plans and begins construction on twin towers on parking lot at the NE corner of State and 4th South next to the Chamber building. Each tower is 35 stories and 425' high.
2021 - Investment bank building completes construction 100% leased by the bank and sits at 650' tall
2022 - SLC Population estimated to surpass 250K in boundaries, downtown nearing 25,000
2022 - Inner and Outer loops for Trax begin construction.
2022 - BRT to South Davis to convert to full LRT.
2023 - WVC welcomes new tallest at 20 stories (Residential at Valley Fair).
2023 - Delta Airlines moves HQ from Atlanta to SLC, SL International Airport to see flights increase by 50%. Airport fast tracks construction time table for future expansions of terminals and runways.
2024 - 5600W BRT, 3500S BRT and Provo/Orem BRT converted to LRT. 15 minute frequency of transit options expands to cover 3/4 of the Wasatch Front.
2024 - SLC and UTA named Transit models for North American cities with ridership exceeding 400K weekday on all transit forms. UTA exceeds 12% population carriage.
2024 - Construction begins on HSR from Salt Lake International Airport to Denver and Las Vegas.
late 2024 - Salt Lake awarded 2026 Winter Olympics as the chosen location has a citizens initiative to reject the Olympics. No, it wasn't Denver.

In the above time frame, I do think that Utah will elect a Democrat for Governor as well as 1 Democrat Senator.

Of the above, the only things that might be wild dreams are the elections. Outside of that, I can see everything happening within a year or 2 of the time frames listed.

Lastly, the screens at the Gateway Theaters will be slated to be fixed in early 2025, sorry everyone.

[jubguy3]

I'd definitely like to see a double tracked FR reaching those speeds, as it is possible because the MPI MPXpress 36-3C UTA owns are supposed to be able to reach 108 mph. I think UTA should have put switches where the single track splits and where double tracks would connect so that construction would be much easier than what they have right now. Double track would also improve trip time even at current speeds as there is no layover (looking at you, north temple) and with 110 mph and no layover / delays system wide (I took it to provo yesterday and had to wait 10 minutes in murray) I think frontrunner will be wildly successful (a fare reduction would perpetuate this - I would support a tax that reduces fares before a tax that upgrades the line) based on the WFRC choices and the consolidation of the valley. I think if UTA wants to be a leader in commuter rail they could opt to sell the MPXpress locomotives to other agencies and invest in what is used for the Acela service in the NE corridor ( reaching 150 mph) although this would be wildly expensive and not practical as it would require many infrastructure upgrades (safer crossings and safety equip, possible upgrades of the comet cars and platform upgrades to support these additional cars, double tracking, high quality catenary for high speed usage, new facilities for electric vehicles) although this would make FR a leader in commuter rail service.

I'd like to see a peak service using only the comet cars out west to tooelle using existing track to test ridership (starting with 1 trip per day) making a ridership projection.

I also think making the hub a nice place to be (I really want it to be like DUS in LoDo) and an asset, not a liability, to west downtown is crucial in revitalizing the area. I don't think UTA sees the potential in linking west and east downtown via 2nd south and making west downtown a nice place and not a crime ridden place which upsets me as having high density near downtown is very good.

In addition to FR, I'd like to see WVC remain with midrise buildings. I support creating micro urban cores but splitting it throughout the valley is going to increase traffic.

I want to see SLC unincorporated everything west of the airport and an additional square between redwood, 32nd west, 9th south, and 21st south as fewer than 12 houses remain west of redwood in Glendale. It's an inaccurate representation of SLC and I think the meager population loss (like maybe 1000 max outside of the inlt center) could be incorporated in to a future city that would develop nicely (let's say South Bay City) in to its own urban population would be worth reincorporating. I would like to see SLC annex sosala and Millcreek, in addition to parts of WVC (murray is good on its own- it's a very responsible suburb). I would also like to see sl county mandate no development outside of certain areas (fuck the ivory CEO... riverton, really? Go put a cactus up your uretha) so as to prevent McMansions and rampant suburbanism.

[Stenar]

Can the Bombardier trains go 110mph? I thought they had a lower top speed.

Delta moving its headquarters to SLC is not a pipe dream?

Democrats winning major elections will definitely happen.

Originally Posted by Makid

For 10 years out, here are my predictions.

Late 2014 - Mia Love will not be declared the winner of the 4th Congressional District as the district votes against Mia by nearly 2 to 1.
Late 2014 - Announcement of who will be the contractor for the CCH
Late 2014 - Construction begins on 151 and 111 has steel rising above street level
2015 - Legislature allows an increase in taxes for transit options
2015 - Legislature issues $1.5 Billion in bonds for Road projects
2015 - Location and design released for CCH (43 Stories @ 616`)
Late 2015 - Tax increase for Transit projects passes with the clarification that this will be used to increase bus service and reliability as well as to double track FrontRunner.
2016 - CCH fully under construction
2016 - Begin Frontrunner double tracking with intended speeds of 110mph between 4am and 12:30am Monday through Saturday.
2016 - 750 Room Hotel Announced adjacent to the SPCC
2016 - SPCC Expansion announced - adding an additional 250,000 sq ft of exhibit space.
2017 - 151 and 111 both complete each at 65% occupancy by the end of the year
2017 - Begin construction of SLC Street Car
2017 - Begin double tracking of Sugar House Street Car
2018 - BRT Lines open along 5600W, Provo/Orem and South Davis
2018 - UTA hits all time ridership high of 250,000 across all forms of transit.
2018 - Investment Bank announces major expansion in Downtown SLC to build new tower.
2019 - UTA opens fully double tracked Frontrunner, averages 55,000 daily riders 6 months after opening due to the speed of transit with 15 minute frequency.
2019 - Salt Lake Street Car completed down to Granary District
2020 - UTA fully realized it's goal of doubling ridership on all transit forms by end of Q1. Daily ridership for UTA now over 300K weekday.
2020 - With increased ridership, TOD expansion multiplies. SoSaLa begins to bloom and construction begins on 40 story residential building in the 2100S TOD/Redevelopment area.
2021 - Millenials continue to increase their push for downtown living. Delloy Hansen releases plans and begins construction on twin towers on parking lot at the NE corner of State and 4th South next to the Chamber building. Each tower is 35 stories and 425' high.
2021 - Investment bank building completes construction 100% leased by the bank and sits at 650' tall
2022 - SLC Population estimated to surpass 250K in boundaries, downtown nearing 25,000
2022 - Inner and Outer loops for Trax begin construction.
2022 - BRT to South Davis to convert to full LRT.
2023 - WVC welcomes new tallest at 20 stories (Residential at Valley Fair).
2023 - Delta Airlines moves HQ from Atlanta to SLC, SL International Airport to see flights increase by 50%. Airport fast tracks construction time table for future expansions of terminals and runways.
2024 - 5600W BRT, 3500S BRT and Provo/Orem BRT converted to LRT. 15 minute frequency of transit options expands to cover 3/4 of the Wasatch Front.
2024 - SLC and UTA named Transit models for North American cities with ridership exceeding 400K weekday on all transit forms. UTA exceeds 12% population carriage.
2024 - Construction begins on HSR from Salt Lake International Airport to Denver and Las Vegas.
late 2024 - Salt Lake awarded 2026 Winter Olympics as the chosen location has a citizens initiative to reject the Olympics. No, it wasn't Denver.

In the above time frame, I do think that Utah will elect a Democrat for Governor as well as 1 Democrat Senator.

Of the above, the only things that might be wild dreams are the elections. Outside of that, I can see everything happening within a year or 2 of the time frames listed.

Lastly, the screens at the Gateway Theaters will be slated to be fixed in early 2025, sorry everyone.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Can the Bombardier trains go 110mph? I thought they had a lower top speed.

Delta moving its headquarters to SLC is not a pipe dream?

Democrats winning major elections will definitely happen.

I think the bombardier bilevel cars (which I assume you are talking about) probably can go 110 mph, as I can not find a speed limit for the actual cars. I'd assume the speed is within a reasonable realm so as that the cars don't fall apart. If you are talking about some other bombardier train, please explain. What I'm worried about is the comet cars as they are very old. I'd like to see them get an interior upgrade so they aesthetically match the bombardiers and get an official "quiet" designation, as well as paneling so they shape with the locomotives and the bombardiers to increase efficiency.

I do think democrats can win an election here.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

2018:large commercial skyscraper is announced (a new tallest).

Originally Posted by Makid

2018 - Investment Bank announces major expansion in Downtown SLC to build new tower.
.

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

2020: Zions Bank announcing plans to develop their new HQ tower on the parking lot of 1st and main

Looks like we are all within two years of our guesses of another bank/commercial skyscraper coming to downtown. 2018-2020.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Looks like we are all within two years of our guesses of another bank/commercial skyscraper coming to downtown. 2018-2020.

What we need is campaigns that show what slc can be and how it's an attractive market, for both employees and employers. There is some stigma about utah in general right now.

[Comrade]

No way Delta is relocating from one of the busiest airports in the world to Salt Lake City - which is 26th in the country.

I could see them expanding their hub out here - but not fully relocating.

One thing I think we'll see happen within the next 20 years is Salt Lake's white population becoming a minority.

Just look at how many schools in the Salt Lake School District are now minority-majority:

Elementary Schools:

Backman (80% Hispanic)
Bennion (53% Hispanic)
Edison (72% Hispanic)
Escalante (65% Hispanic)
Franklin (76% Hispanic)
Jackson (71% Hispanic)
Lincoln (59% Hispanic)
Meadowlark (71% Hispanic)
Mountain View (59% Hispanic)
Newman (58% Hispanic)
North Star (66% Hispanic)
Parkview (71% Hispanic)
Riley (55% Hispanic)
Rose Park (65% Hispanic)

The total white population in SLC's elementary schools is just 42%. Only a handful of schools, most on the east side, have a white majority population.

Junior Highs:

Bryant (61% Hispanic)
Glendale (65% Hispanic)
Northwest (70% Hispanic)

The total white population in SLC's middle schools is just 35% - with Hispanics making up 48%.

High Schools:

Hispanics don't make up a majority of the population in any SLC high school sans Horizonte - however, they make up a plurality at East and West (where the white population is 39% and 34% respectively).

That's the future of SLC right there. It'll be interesting to see how things shift with an increasingly different demographic.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Comrade

One thing I think we'll see happen within the next 20 years is Salt Lake's white population becoming a minority.

We'll see if immigrant kids arent just as excited to flee to the suburbs as anyone who gains a little bit of social mobility in this country.

[Makid]

Record sales point to Salt Lake City’s rebounding downtown
Business » Image is soaring as City Creek Center and surrounding developments take off.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58170383-78/downtown-salt-business-lake.html.csp

Retailers in Salt Lake City’s core amassed a record $800 million in sales in 2013 as younger residents, suburban dwellers and tourists sought out its downtown restaurants, bars, stores and night life.

Downtown’s business clout within Salt Lake County and its overall vibrancy have improved dramatically in the past year, according to an annual snapshot of the core’s economic and overall health. Defined by the 84101 and 84111 ZIP codes, the central business district now makes up 10.8 percent of the county’s total retail sales in key categories, up from 8 percent in 2005.

Once-cautious predictions of additional development on blocks immediately surrounding City Creek are coming true, when only a few years ago much of downtown was sprinkled with boarded-up buildings and the streets fell quiet at night.

Last year saw dozens of new office buildings, residential complexes, hotels, theaters and sizable public structures break ground within the 500-acre central business district. A nascent sense of 24/7 liveliness is starting to rev up. And while pockets of urban blight, vacant storefronts and prominent parking lots aren’t gone from downtown’s landscape, the urban heart does seem to be turning.

"Our downtown is fundamentally different than it was just a few years ago," said Linda Wardell, general manager for City Creek Center.

And it’s not just the new mall working in downtown’s favor.

Thousands of new multifamily residential units, several new high-profile office projects, increased use of public transit and growth in urban jobs are also spurring downtown’s comeback.

Stories like this will help to further attract more businesses and residents.

Also, regarding my thought of Delta relocating their headquarters. This was with the thought that Atlanta would continue to lose access to water as well as major climate changes along the coasts raising the cost of living. This would cause more air traffic to be shifted inland as people migrate away from high costs.

Sure, it is a bit of a dream but I still see it as a possibility.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Makid

Record sales point to Salt Lake City’s rebounding downtown
Business » Image is soaring as City Creek Center and surrounding developments take off.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58170383-78/downtown-salt-business-lake.html.csp





Stories like this will help to further attract more businesses and residents.

Also, regarding my thought of Delta relocating their headquarters. This was with the thought that Atlanta would continue to lose access to water as well as major climate changes along the coasts raising the cost of living. This would cause more air traffic to be shifted inland as people migrate away from high costs.

Sure, it is a bit of a dream but I still see it as a possibility.

Atlanta is the biggest airport in the US and biggest by some metrics in the world. It's not going to happen.

[Makid]

I do think that there will become a time in the near future that will change the metrics that keep many headquarters where they are located.

We are starting to see it with the potential of Walgreens moving their headquarters out of the country.

As costs in various locations go up, there will be increased pressure to move the HQ to a location where they are able to keep more profits in the company to provide bigger dividends to their investors.

As with Delta, sure Atlanta has one of the largest airports in the world by traffic. Delta has to pay fees at the airport even though their headquarters are located in the area. I don't see Delta dropping their flights in the area if they move their HQ as they make money in the market.

BOA certainly doesn't pay more tax money in Charlotte then New York that is one reason why their HQ is there. Even though most of their employees still work in New York. They made the move for money and the CEO wanted to move.

All the above means is that we shouldn't look at the service that is provided by a given company as the reason for their HQ location. HQ's can move without changing the services provided in an area and companies will be under more and more pressure to save more money.

It is all this that makes me feel that we will start to see more HQ's move across the country in the next 10 to 15 years than we have at any time in the past. States, Cities, Counties and even Countries will be doing everything they can to woo prospective HQ's to their locations.

[Orlando]

Awesome post Makid! I love it!

But, what about Air 7? Tower 8? and Tower 2?

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

We'll see if immigrant kids arent just as excited to flee to the suburbs as anyone who gains a little bit of social mobility in this country.

"Immigrant kids?!"

[ToysNoiz]

Deleted to avoid politics.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Old&New

"Immigrant kids?!"

Children of immigrants or children who immigrated who will enter the public school system and have opportunities their parents didn't. Most our minority kids are immigrants or children of immigrants. Have you met our lovely Sudanese children in South Salt Lake? You have to leave your house to do that... A sheltered person is the type of person who would find the term "immigrant kids" offensive... The person that comes to mind is someone who processed hours upon hours of Disney Channel growing up and believed the sort of creepy 90's Disney idea that all ethnicities were secretly bland white americans hidden under different ethnic avatars. Please contribute to the conversation or stay out of it. Feigning offense over semantics when you know a person's heart is a distraction.

[Palladio]

Hey guys! So a little bit of an update.

This might be a wee bit more appropriate for the transit feed, but since we are casually mentioning BRT right now I thought it would be worth a mention. One of my glamorous day jobs is being a planning intern with the City of Taylorsville. With that, I always get to hear lovely new plans in our glamorous city. I was talking with our city planner today and he said that the 47th south BRT route from Murray Central to SLCC is on track to be under way in the next two years. Additionally he said he can easily see an extension of that BRT route from SLCC to WVC via 27th west to be done a year after that.

With that, there is a huge effort in city hall to rezone huge pieces of the city to be mixed use along that corridor. So in case you guys were looking for something to add to your long term predictions.

[Boss Hogg]

I like many of your points, which should bode well for mid markets such as SLC, but I think it also misses some important elements. First, there definitely is movement nationally and internationally to move companies' legal headquarters to low/no tax states or countries, but they are mere shells. What we really need are the high wages that come with real corporate headquarters and their spending on "wining and dining" customers. If they simply make their legal headquarters here, that doesn't have nearly the positive impact. Second, while lowering direct costs are a growing element it still takes a backseat to where the executive team and board want to live. If you have to pay a premium to recruit talent here, then those savings may not look so nice. I maintain Utah is excellent at starting companies and growing them into successful businesses, but they are sold and absorbed by larger competitors. That could change drastically if you have a few build and maintain their companies here, which then grow into multinationals themselves. That would go a long way in developing local executive talent and attract back more of the "Mormon diaspora" who are execs. back East and could be lured in more easily. Just some thoughts.

Originally Posted by Makid

I do think that there will become a time in the near future that will change the metrics that keep many headquarters where they are located.

We are starting to see it with the potential of Walgreens moving their headquarters out of the country.

As costs in various locations go up, there will be increased pressure to move the HQ to a location where they are able to keep more profits in the company to provide bigger dividends to their investors.

As with Delta, sure Atlanta has one of the largest airports in the world by traffic. Delta has to pay fees at the airport even though their headquarters are located in the area. I don't see Delta dropping their flights in the area if they move their HQ as they make money in the market.

BOA certainly doesn't pay more tax money in Charlotte then New York that is one reason why their HQ is there. Even though most of their employees still work in New York. They made the move for money and the CEO wanted to move.

All the above means is that we shouldn't look at the service that is provided by a given company as the reason for their HQ location. HQ's can move without changing the services provided in an area and companies will be under more and more pressure to save more money.

It is all this that makes me feel that we will start to see more HQ's move across the country in the next 10 to 15 years than we have at any time in the past. States, Cities, Counties and even Countries will be doing everything they can to woo prospective HQ's to their locations.

[jubguy3]

One thing to consider if the depot district / intermodal hub were actually developed, one thing would be a capacity issue at north temple. All bus traffic would have to terminate there as opposed to other places filling up spaces and making everything farther away from the central garage. Everything would have to get demolished for the rio grande pavilion as well, and FR would have to pass through to NT and blue would have to terminate at greektown because of accesibility issues. That being said, i would like to see the depot district get revitalized and a mixed use get put in with lots of residential (from different developers to make everything more aesthetically interesting and not a monolithic mega apartment) to tie everything together.