Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Building the CCH on the RWP site solves the very problem you are saying would be nearly impossible to solve. Building a 1,000 room CCH on the RWP site, will not only add additional convention space to the Salt Palace it will take up the entire street frontage that is now fronted by parking for the Post Office and RWP. The hotel would most likely have at least one or two retail spaces fronting 200 S, creating vibrancy along that stretch of 200 S.

If a 1,000 room convention hotel is built on the RWP site, as detailed above, the parcels on the south side of 200 S are going to be much easier to redevelop. Having a hotel with 1,000 rooms with high to full occupancy several hundred days a year right across the street is a gold mine for property owners and developers. As has been mentioned before, the convention and visitors bureau estimates that there is actually need for two large hotels near the Salt Palace, particularly once the first one, that includes additional Salt Palace space is included and more conventions begin to book here. Putting the CCH on the RWP site could very easily be the catalyst for a second 500-800 room hotel being built on the other side of 200 S.

If the above scenario were to play out, it would eliminate what is for the most part an entire block, (both sides) of baron waste land for the future street car to run through.

I do agree though, that redeveloping 200 S between 200 W and 300 W would be a very big hurdle and would take many years, if the CCH isn't built there.

But this isn't the City Creek Reserve, right (they aren't community builders). It's a private company with some money to mitigate the costs of building and operating all this stuff. These hotels are very expensive to stay at. They want the best location view wise, amenities wise, and they want the fastest potential return on their investment. Being part of the Salt Lake City cluster of buildings in our Main Street skyline is going to be more prestigious than some disconnected location with a view of a solar roof. For the hotel company, for City Creek Reserve, it just makes the most sense to build it on the Arrow Press site.

And if they do decide to go to the Arrow Press site there won't be the kind of battles to be fought that slowed down the UPAC. They could swoop in and buy up the land as fast as they can pay for it and we could see demolition within a year.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

But this isn't the City Creek Reserve, right. It's a private company with some money to mitigate the costs of building and operating all this stuff. These hotels are very expensive to stay at. They want the best location view wise, amenities wise, and they want the fastest potential return on their investment. Being part of the Salt Lake City cluster of buildings in our Main Street skyline is going to be more prestigious than some disconnected location with a view of a solar roof. For the hotel company, for City Creek Reserve, it just makes the most sense to build it on the Arrow Press site.

And if they do decide to go to the Arrow Press site there won't be the kind of battles to be fought that slowed down the UPAC. They could swoop in and buy up the land as fast as they can pay for it and we could see demolition within the year.

There will be a much bigger battle to fight if they try and demolish Arrow Press Square.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

There will be a much bigger battle to fight if they try and demolish Arrow Press Square.

Is there much precedence for private companies not getting what they want in Salt Lake City if the historical buildings aren't skyscrapers? Does Dinwoody have the same clout as say, the old arcade building downtown?

Does the convention center hotel require a variance because of zoning laws?

Is there going to be a property owner who won't sell for the right price?


I really think making this a private venture with tax subsidies pretty much frees the project from much public outcry.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

But this isn't the City Creek Reserve, right. It's a private company with some money to mitigate the costs of building and operating all this stuff. These hotels are very expensive to stay at. They want the best location view wise, amenities wise, and they want the fastest potential return on their investment. Being part of the Salt Lake City cluster of buildings in our Main Street skyline is going to be more prestigious than some disconnected location with a view of a solar roof. For the hotel company, for City Creek Reserve, it just makes the most sense to build it on the Arrow Press site.

Guess what, on Arrow Press Square, rooms on the west side will still see the solar roof top. RWP east side rooms yes they can see the solar panels, but they can also see more of the downtown Skyline.

Yes the Arrow Press Square site provides access to CCC, the Eccles theater and Main Street right out the door. On the other hand, RWP provides access to those same things, only two blocks away, while also providing access to movie theaters and even more restaurants only two blocks away at the Gateway, not to mention there are even more restaurants right down 200 W.

Leaving the above points behind Arrow Press Square requires negotiating with multiple property owners, all wanting way above market value, while RWP requires dealing with one owner wanting way above market value. Not to mention the historic structures and dealing with preservationists, and forumers, not wanting to lose even more of our historic past in the heart of downtown.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Guess what, on Arrow Press Square, rooms on the west side will still see the solar roof top. RWP east side rooms yes they can see the solar panels, but they can also see more of the downtown Skyline.

Yes the Arrow Press Square site provides access to CCC, the Eccles theater and Main Street right out the door. On the other hand, RWP provides access to those same things, only two blocks away, while also providing access to movie theaters and even more restaurants only two blocks away at the Gateway, not to mention there are even more restaurants right down 200 W.

Leaving the above points behind Arrow Press Square requires negotiating with multiple property owners, all wanting way above market value, while RWP requires dealing with one owner wanting way above market value. Not to mention the historic structures and dealing with preservationists, and forumers, not wanting to lose even more of our historic past in the heart of downtown.

I agree 100 percent that the location you have stated as the preferred location is the easiest location to acquire and probably second best from the developer's stand point. But...it's still not the best location and if the owners are to sell, I see nothing stopping the developer from getting the best location.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

I agree 100 percent that the location you have stated as the preferred location is the easiest location to acquire and probably second best from the developer's stand point. But...it's still not the best location and if the owners are to sell, I see nothing stopping the developer from getting the best location.

Well, if it has to be close to Temple Square and CCC, then the site next to the Salt Lake Plaza (or even including SL Plaza) is even better than APS. It's closer to Temple Square and nearly as close to CCC as APS. But has an option for a direct connection to the Salt Palace.

I don't think you can say APS is the best location.

[Future Mayor]

Bridges at Citifront update, 600 W building.



South view of 600 West Apartments (mural). Exterior finishes are being installed on the northern portion of the building.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Well, if it has to be close to Temple Square and CCC, then the site next to the Salt Lake Plaza (or even including SL Plaza) is even better than APS. It's closer to Temple Square and nearly as close to CCC as APS. But has an option for a direct connection to the Salt Palace.

I don't think you can say APS is the best location.

That seems like the 3rd or 4th best location.

The APS location puts it across from City Creek and the front entrance of the convention center; it also places next to Main Street and more secular fun downtown.

Future Mayor's site keeps it downtown but it's not connected to light rail or city creek.

The Plaza location isn't really adjacent to any retail or resturants. And it probably can't serve alcohol from that spot. So it is missing everything Furture Mayor's location has but light rail. Is it better to be close to temple square than city creek, probably not (an over engineered mall to ogle at and shop in or the geneology center). And if we put the hotel there we have two blocks left undeveloped instead of just one.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Stenar

but I don't agree that the park where the transformers are needs to be built on. Open space is a good thing.

But does that "park" ever get used? Seems like every time I walk/drive by, it's empty. Open space is great if it gets used.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

But does that "park" ever get used? Seems like every time I walk/drive by, it's empty. Open space is great if it gets used.

It gets used during conventions, and I would venture to guess that if APS were to develop into something like the narrows, that it would get much more use than it currently does.

[Stenar]

The Plaza location is half a block from CCC. I don't see how that is an issue.

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

That seems like the 3rd or 4th best location.

The APS location puts it across from City Creek and the front entrance of the convention center; it also places next to Main Street and more secular fun downtown.

Future Mayor's site keeps it downtown but it's not connected to light rail or city creek.

The Plaza location isn't really adjacent to any retail or resturants. And it probably can't serve alcohol from that spot. So it is missing everything Furture Mayor's location has but light rail. Is it better to be close to temple square than city creek, probably not (an over engineered mall to ogle at and shop in or the geneology center). And if we put the hotel there we have two blocks left undeveloped instead of just one.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

The Plaza location is half a block from CCC. I don't see how that is an issue.

I wouldn't be an issue to you and me, but apparently there are people who have to be located next to things; you know, the special kinds of people who can apparently navigate much more complicated metros from whence they came (perhaps after years of special life skills training), but the idea of say booking convention space in the Grand America to run concurrently with their convention in the convention center and having to take free trax to get there just overwhelms their mental faculties and beetus ankles.

Let's really consider the premise of this CCH, these are people who are willing to pay way more just to be minutes closer to their work trip convention. Let's be honest, these are people who hate walking. And you know what, I truly believe they exist from my experience working at the City Creek Center. But we'll take these plebs and offer them overpriced amenities and get some sweet sweet sales tax and then they can go back to their CCH and have a masseuse rub their swollen ankles. Location seems to be branded into everything with a CCH, that's why I think they will be willing to fight for the best location.

[Future Mayor]

You may have just proved RWP to be the best location after all. Imagine how much less stressful it would be for those convention attendees to not even have to leave the hotel and figure out how to cross a street in order to get to the convention center. RWP would allow for direct access right into the Salt Palace, just imagine the super duper uber convenience of that.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

...The APS location puts it across from City Creek and the front entrance of the convention center

There are many entrances to the salt palace. The east entrance is just one of them. And Royal Wood Plaza would provide for a much easier and affordable direct connection.

Future Mayor's site [Royal Wood Plaza] keeps it downtown but it's not connected to light rail or city creek.

RWP is equidistant (2.5 blocks) between Gallivan and Planeterium TRAX stations (a little over a quarter mile? Which is well within walking distance). This could be seen as a strategic location to increase pedestrian traffic between transit stops and the CCH. Oh, and eventually there will be a Street-Car running by the front doors to the hotel (Great for UTA ridership!).

...it also places next to Main Street and more secular fun downtown...

RWP is equidistant between Main Street, the Gateway, and City Creek Center, providing visitors EVEN MORE access to shopping, food, and entertainment, or in your words: "secular fun"

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

You may have just proved RWP to be the best location after all. Imagine how much less stressful it would be for those convention attendees to not even have to leave the hotel and figure out how to cross a street in order to get to the convention center. RWP would allow for direct access right into the Salt Palace, just imagine the super duper uber convenience of that.

Haha, I think I did just prove your point.

Alright, full disclosure, I guess I just really push the APS location because there is a good chance they will get confused and wander into City Creek Center instead.

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Most of the buildings within your new building footprint are either historic or of significant historic type value. The only one that isn't is the very corner building on 1st S and W. Temple, other than that all those remaining buildings have historic value or historic character and give 100 S much more interest than the new CCH would be. The W. Temple building is the former X-96 building and behind that Arrow Press Sq, all historic.

I really think the best option for that block is a new tower (most likely Zions) facing 1st and Main, surrounding the white bank building, a remodel of the Dinwoody into either condos or a third CCC Department store, and the remainder of the area being developed into "The SLC Narrows" concept. The nice thing about the Narrow concept is that it would provide an E/W connection from W. Temple to Main as well as to 2nd and 1st.

Total agreement on all points here.
I'm not sure of the rehab-ability of the Arrow press square building(s), at this point. I haven't ventured back in there for many years. I hope they're still salvageable at this point. I would love to put a jazz club in there. Live music most nights, vinyl, OK digital remasters at the rest of the time.
And the Narrows concept is great. I'd like an inventive developer to get a hold of that scheme. Anyone know of somebody?
And the SW corner of 1st and main is now, I think, THE hottest property in town. Okay, maybe not hottest necessarily, but the most valuable, ...at least for larger commercial.

[ajiuO]

Speaking of APS. Someone had better do something about the suspended roof hanging over the front entrance.. It needs to be removed ASAP. The metal cross beams are rusted so bad that they are starting to snap and the roof is showing potential for collapse.. Someone could be hurt if this is not addressed. They should just rip the building down.. It's never going to undergo a rehab.. It's just sitting there rotting away and causing safety hazards. We can't wait 10 years for someone to maybe want to rehab it.. And by then it will be beyond repair... If it isn't already... Just let it go.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Speaking of APS. Someone had better do something about the suspended roof hanging over the front entrance.. It needs to be removed ASAP. The metal cross beams are rusted so bad that they are starting to snap and the roof is showing potential for collapse.. Someone could be hurt if this is not addressed. They should just rip the building down.. It's never going to undergo a rehab.. It's just sitting there rotting away and causing safety hazards. We can't wait 10 years for someone to maybe want to rehab it.. And by then it will be beyond repair... If it isn't already... Just let it go.

I love that entrance canopy. It's not too late to replicate it, if not refurbish it. Why not put pressure on the property owner to do something about it? It's a beautiful building.

[ajiuO]

I took my first trip to Hogel Zoo in probably 15 years. While some of the new exhibits were refreshing.. I was appalled by a lot of what has been done to that place.

I wish they would have made at least some attempt to preserve some of the history of the place.. They also took some pretty cool stuff out... It actually seems like the zoo is smaller.. Definitely don't care for the new bridge is much. It's up a lot higher and doesn't cut through the trees. The old one is still there.. But that area is now restricted.. That use to be one of the coolest parts of the zoo with all the trees.

I was really sad to see the giraffe building gone.. The new giraffe are is much nicer for the animals.. With all of the open space... I think they could have also included a similar internal 2 story structure..

[Old&New]

*bumped*