Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by downtownslcresident

Seriously, guys? Come on...this is just rude. I happen to think that the person you are clearly referring to brings a lot to this forum. More than some of you that just like to argue and be stubborn and cause problems. At least "j" posts about development related things that help to get a discussion going. That's more than a large group of you can say. They may sometimes be silly things to post, or silly questions, but I appreciate them and it's rude of you to treat him in a way that would make him want to post less on the forum.

Get over yourselves.

Thank you! I do think that they could have either a. Told me to stop over posting (which I have done) and b. carried it out outside the dev forum. It's like they purposefully put on a huge parade of ignore-j (who I presume is me) even though I kindly say that if I've made a dumb idea or a dumb post that they can tell me how to improve it

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I don't think anyone is going to let the building that formerly houses X96 be demolished because it is beautiful. You cannot build on the land where the transformers are and you're reduced area covers the entrance to the transformers. I doubt Zions Bank will sell the parking lot. I also think it's questionable whether Zions would sell the Dinwoody.

This leaves a much smaller place to work with.

The X96 building was gutted on the inside when some transients lit a fire in there to try and keep warm... It's gonna be really hard to say that is a loss at this point.

The whole underground substation / power line argument is probably the most silly. Power companies work with developers (when compsenated) to move things around or make them more compact. I'm sure that is really low on the cost factor of all of this...

Dinwoody is the only buidling that has a fighting chance to hold this thing up as far a historical buildings goes. Right now it's hidden in slabs and most of the public is unaware it even exists, so I don't know how well the mobs will show up for that one.

Basically you have 4 resturants in the far left corner near the convention center; the rest is storage, parking, or abandoned.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

The X96 building was gutted on the inside when some transients lit a fire in there to try and keep warm... It's gonna be really hard to say that is a loss at this point.

The whole underground substation / power line argument is probably the most silly. Power companies work with developers (when compsenated) to move things around or make them more compact. I'm sure that is really low on the cost factor of all of this...

Dinwoody is the only buidling that has a fighting chance to hold this thing up as far a historical buildings goes. Right now it's hidden in slabs and most of the public is unaware it even exists, so I don't know how well the mobs will show up for that one.

Basically you have 4 resturants in the far left corner near the convention center; the rest is storage, parking, or abandoned.

I'd like to see the hotel maintain retail and see those same restaurants included back in the hotel (naked fish for the win!) but considering the arguments you have presented, the plan I have laid out with a plaza might work.

[Stenar]

I think you mean the DV8 building was gutted by fire. I've never heard of any fire at the former X96 building, especially since it still has tenants.

Zions Bank is supposedly land-banking their parking lot for a future build.

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

The X96 building was gutted on the inside when some transients lit a fire in there to try and keep warm... It's gonna be really hard to say that is a loss at this point.

The whole underground substation / power line argument is probably the most silly. Power companies work with developers (when compsenated) to move things around or make them more compact. I'm sure that is really low on the cost factor of all of this...

Dinwoody is the only buidling that has a fighting chance to hold this thing up as far a historical buildings goes. Right now it's hidden in slabs and most of the public is unaware it even exists, so I don't know how well the mobs will show up for that one.

Basically you have 4 resturants in the far left corner near the convention center; the rest is storage, parking, or abandoned.

[Old&New]

The DV8 building was completely destroyed by the fire. It was located in the vacant space (now a dirt lot) bordering West temple where you can see cars parked. None of the existing buildings have been "gutted."

I've had conversations with the mayors office and downtown alliance about the park. They said touching the lines in any way would be extremely expensive.

[bob rulz]

Here's an article I found about it with a pretty telling photo:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/69524...DV8-building-to-be-torn-down.html?pg=all

That's far more than a "gutting". It's total destruction.

It was a nice little building, too.

[SLC Projects]

Maybe not a CCH, but there really needs to be SOMEKIND of development to happen in the old DV8 site and around that area. We can keep the old buildings ( as long as they are being used with retail and such ) but we need something to go in where the old DV8 building once stood and there needs to be something where the park/transformers site is, even if it's just a one or two story building.
While some of the buildings are worth keeping, the area, overall, needs some help.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I think you mean the DV8 building was gutted by fire. I've never heard of any fire at the former X96 building, especially since it still has tenants.

Zions Bank is supposedly land-banking their parking lot for a future build.

Yeah, my mistake on x96.

Zions is very high up in the downtown rising / alliance / chamber of commerce. If the wheels are moving to do a convention center hotel there, you can bet they will be fine with it and handsomely compensated.

[ajiuO]

I thought x96 use to be in trolley Corner??

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I thought x96 use to be in trolley Corner??

It was, however way back in the day they started out on West Temple.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

I love our Denver forumers, especially you. <3 (best walking tour of a city I've ever had).

That was a great day!

You should take the Zephyr out here the weekend of July 26 and join us for the big Union Station grand opening bash!

[delts145]

Given this weekends discussion I thought this was an appropriate article below in this mornings Deseret News. I've often thought that the CCH should be configured around the same premise as the new CCH here in Los Angeles. I think a mixed use, Ritz Carlton/Marriott combo would be an excellent choice. I'm convinced that while the LDS Church might not want the new CCH right on top of their Temple Square Campus, they're still going to be heavily invested in seeing that this CCH is a stunner. Much like the Historic Hotel Utah was one of the great Grand Hotels between Chicago and San Francisco, I think the new CCH will be a show piece, not just another Phoenix or run of the mill setup. I would be very surprised if the Marriott hierarchy, above and beyond their personal corporate holdings, do not take a hands on stake in the new CCH. This new CCH will be the first and lasting impression that hundreds of thousands of new visitors will have of Salt Lake City, and you can bet that there are many civic and religious leaders who will want that impression to be as positive as the impressions of the Temple Square Campus and the City Creek Center.

Remember also that much of Park City/Deer Valleys new luxury market is set up on this same formula. Properties such as The St. Regis, The Montage, The Walforf Astoria, The Escala, Le Chateaux, etc. are all top luxury brands who have experienced incredible success with this formula. Even the venerable Stein Eriksen is building a huge new addition wrapped around this same principle.

Room service draws buyers in US condo-hotel boom

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/76565...-buyers-in-US-condo-hotel-boom.html?pg=1

Nadja Brandt, Bloomberg News

...Steve Nagelberg, 60, an orthopedic surgeon, said such amenities and a high-end brand name attracted him to the Ritz-Carlton Residences in downtown Los Angeles. He and his wife bought a 4,100-square-foot (380-square-meter) three-bedroom unit with panoramic views in early 2012. The project was conceived before the current development wave as part of Anschutz Entertainment Group's 4 million-square-foot L.A. Live entertainment complex.

"No matter how wealthy you are, you are always considering where to park your cash," Nagelberg said in a telephone interview. "But when I saw the Ritz-Carlton name, I thought, you can depend on this. I knew this type of company would be here not just a year from now, but 20 years from now."

For developers, adding condos to a hotel project can attract financing that may not otherwise be available, ...

.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Here is my rendering. Orange is building outline, red is site outline. Green is plaza and black is midblock and bridge.

If I destroyed any historic buildings or made the actual hotel way too small, let me know!

Most of the buildings within your new building footprint are either historic or of significant historic type value. The only one that isn't is the very corner building on 1st S and W. Temple, other than that all those remaining buildings have historic value or historic character and give 100 S much more interest than the new CCH would be. The W. Temple building is the former X-96 building and behind that Arrow Press Sq, all historic.

I really think the best option for that block is a new tower (most likely Zions) facing 1st and Main, surrounding the white bank building, a remodel of the Dinwoody into either condos or a third CCC Department store, and the remainder of the area being developed into "The SLC Narrows" concept. The nice thing about the Narrow concept is that it would provide an E/W connection from W. Temple to Main as well as to 2nd and 1st.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Most of the buildings within your new building footprint are either historic or of significant historic type value. The only one that isn't is the very corner building on 1st S and W. Temple, other than that all those remaining buildings have historic value or historic character and give 100 S much more interest than the new CCH would be. The W. Temple building is the former X-96 building and behind that Arrow Press Sq, all historic.

I really think the best option for that block is a new tower (most likely Zions) facing 1st and Main, surrounding the white bank building, a remodel of the Dinwoody into either condos or a third CCC Department store, and the remainder of the area being developed into "The SLC Narrows" concept. The nice thing about the Narrow concept is that it would provide an E/W connection from W. Temple to Main as well as to 2nd and 1st.

What are the narrows? I haven't heard about this project yet

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Maybe not a CCH, but there really needs to be SOMEKIND of development to happen in the old DV8 site and around that area. We can keep the old buildings ( as long as they are being used with retail and such ) but we need something to go in where the old DV8 building once stood and there needs to be something where the park/transformers site is, even if it's just a one or two story building.
While some of the buildings are worth keeping, the area, overall, needs some help.

I agree that something ought to be built on the old DV8 site, but I don't agree that the park where the transformers are needs to be built on. Open space is a good thing.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Futuremayor. Would you be able to add the new project on 400s and 500e on the first page? That would be awesome. :-)

Yes I will. It would be nice if I had more than the black and white sketch drawings to post though.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

What are the narrows? I haven't heard about this project yet

Here's the details. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=6490818&highlight=narrows#post6490818

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by delts145

...I'm afraid S.P. could very well be right. Hopefully, the very powerful(CCC) is not fixated on 1st S. as a CCH area essential to the enhancement of their City Creek Center property. The importance of visitor traffic to CCC's future prosperity cannot be overemphasized. That just might include demanding that the CCH have two main doors and that they empty onto both 1st S. and also W. Temple.

Would it be possible to creatively intermingle the CCH and it's diverse requirements on the available plots from Main to W. Temple? This of course must include a tall tower on the corner of 1st S. and W. Temple, but not destroy the Dinwoody or the Arrow Press Building. Could the Dinwoody and the Arrow Press actually become exciting, usuable space for the CCH itself...why not?

Something just occurred to me, and I'm curious if any of you might be thinking the same thing. I'm beginning to wonder if they've all but decided to reconfigure the Salt Palace's Southeast corner, at W. Temple and 2nd S? Redeveloping that corner would actually make a lot more sense than many of the alternatives. There's an awful lot of wasted space there, both vertical and circumference.

The challenge is that Salt Lake City has one big visitor draw at 5.1 million people a year (the 16th most visited attraction in the United States), Temple Square. The footprint for it is huge, the scale is huge. So you put your convention center and retail center near it as well, which also have massive footprints and scale. Now look at what City Creek Center and the Church has done to orchestrate the building of the performing arts center to add to this visitor designation cluster and the scale required for that.

It just seems inevitable that there will be a push to do the same on the last block that has been redeveloped in the largely underused portion. I think we need to concede much to the sadness of our neighborhood loving Jane Jacobs sensibilities that this part of Salt Lake City is what it is. It's a magnet for tourism and all the money tourists bring. But honestly, for everyone of these little restaurants that are pushed out many more are added throughout parts of Salt Lake City that are becoming better neighborhoods each year. Whatever we loose is going to be recouped massively as the city has more money to streetcar and assist in development in abandoned parts of our city with good bones. Really when you think about it, after the convention center hotel, all the big footprint / scale projects that could be pushed by the Chamber of Commerce aren't going to be downtown. This is really the last on the list. After this concludes the Church, City, and Chamber won't need such a tight knit alliance. We're getting really close to a post Downtown Alliance era.

With regards to finding a way to redevelop everything In the two blocks west of the convention center, good luck. That really is the great planning challenge of our city. It's like how the Sierra Mountains create a rain shadow over Nevada. It's really an urban vitality desert there. If I were looking to build a luxury hotel I would steer clear of that place.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I agree that something ought to be built on the old DV8 site, but I don't agree that the park where the transformers are needs to be built on. Open space is a good thing.

The right configuration of the right amount of open space is a good thing. Imagine if that park was 1/3 of the size with restaurants on both sides with outdoor tables and benches. That would be a Portland style urban playground vs. a San Jose afterthought.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

With regards to finding a way to redevelop everything In the two blocks west of the convention center, good luck. That really is the great planning challenge of our city. It's like how the Sierra Mountains create a rain shadow over Nevada. It's really an urban vitality desert there. If I were looking to build a luxury hotel I would steer clear of that place.

Building the CCH on the RWP site solves the very problem you are saying would be nearly impossible to solve. Building a 1,000 room CCH on the RWP site, will not only add additional convention space to the Salt Palace it will take up the entire street frontage that is now fronted by parking for the Post Office and RWP. The hotel would most likely have at least one or two retail spaces fronting 200 S, creating vibrancy along that stretch of 200 S.

If a 1,000 room convention hotel is built on the RWP site, as detailed above, the parcels on the south side of 200 S are going to be much easier to redevelop. Having a hotel with 1,000 rooms with high to full occupancy several hundred days a year right across the street is a gold mine for property owners and developers. As has been mentioned before, the convention and visitors bureau estimates that there is actually need for two large hotels near the Salt Palace, particularly once the first one, that includes additional Salt Palace space is included and more conventions begin to book here. Putting the CCH on the RWP site could very easily be the catalyst for a second 500-800 room hotel being built on the other side of 200 S.

If the above scenario were to play out, it would eliminate what is for the most part an entire block, (both sides) of baron waste land for the future street car to run through.

I do agree though, that redeveloping 200 S between 200 W and 300 W would be a very big hurdle and would take many years, if the CCH isn't built there.