ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[RocketSurgeon]

Wow, you guys are really confusing me with this one. I see people around there all the time. There's retail a block to the north, retail a block to the south, retail and high-rise residential a block to the west, a huge art museum and performing arts center across the street, and another art museum next door. I'm not sure "dead" is the best way to describe an area like that, but then again I also consider that area to be Midtown, so I guess I've lost my mind today

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I can't comprehend the praise for the project, honestly. That portion of Midtown is stifled by a lack of residential density and a lack of retail fronting the street; this project exacerbates both problems.

I guess if we just concede that Midtown north of 15th is Buckhead Junior, then yes, the project is all well and good.

I agree, but just to sound a dissenting vote. The section of Peachtree north of 15th is a nice transition from the upscale single family neighborhoods in Ansley.

That's a common complaint about Peachtree in the Lenox area as well, but the old neighborhoods are charming and worthy of being treated with TLC. They're a big part of what makes Atlanta what it is.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I agree, but just to sound a dissenting vote. The section of Peachtree north of 15th is a nice transition from the upscale single family neighborhoods in Ansley.

That's a common complaint about Peachtree in the Lenox area as well, but the old neighborhoods are charming and worthy of being treated with TLC. They're a big part of what makes Atlanta what it is.

I could not agree more arjay57, in regards to Ansley and all of the other wonderful Peachtree-adjacent neighborhoods.

As far as the design for this goes, I happen to love it. I just wish it were much taller - but I will definitely take it.

[Alfred E Neuman]

I like OMP's black/white motif. It gives me a feeling of a certain sense of sophistication like being dressed and ready to cross P'tree to attend an opening night gala at the symphony. I think it will make a handsome neighbor to the High.

[Tuckerman]

The discussion on the street front of One Mus. Pl. adds another significant problem to this project. I had mainly objected to the architectural fit of the project. With regard to the street front it clearly creates a dead space on Peachtree. Originally, I believe, the high rise planned there would have had gallery spaces with access to the street. As mentioned, the current design is more fitting a Buckhead development, particularly the type on Lenox Rd. from the Mall to I-85 - an absolutely dead area for walking with no street frontage. This project further isolates the High and SCAD from a relationship with Peachtree. Essentially there is a dead pedestrian zone from 15th. to Brookwood. Perhaps this will always be the case. The possibility of a type of "arts district" from the High northward seems to have failed. The Museum of Contemporary Arts (MOCAGA) abandoned the area for Bennett St; LOWE'S gallery moved out to Miami Circle; SCAD is left with a building that might as well be located on Buford Hwy.I am disappointed in this loss of possibilities both socially and architecturally.

[Atlanta3000]

AC Marriott Phipps

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

AC Marriott Phipps

Interesting update, Atlanta3000.

The original plans showed the hotel sitting further back from Peachtree, with the corner itself reserved for future development.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Alfred E Neuman

I like OMP's black/white motif. It gives me a feeling of a certain sense of sophistication like being dressed and ready to cross P'tree to attend an opening night gala at the symphony. I think it will make a handsome neighbor to the High.

Not every inch of every major street needs or can support a strong retail presence-- this is a very elegant building that addresses the street well-- this section of Peachtree is one of the most pleasant places to walk in the city -- yes the High is a (beautiful) object building but that is perfectly appropriate for a major (singular) cultural destination-- Variety and complexity make a city interesting as long as the individual building are well designed-- something we DO need a whole lot more of--

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Interesting update, Atlanta3000.

The original plans showed the hotel sitting further back from Peachtree, with the corner itself reserved for future development.

that looks to be in line with the rendering; i think the space marked 'future development' is literally right up to the corner, replacing the existing 'phipps plaza' sign.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

that looks to be in line with the rendering; i think the space marked 'future development' is literally right up to the corner, replacing the existing 'phipps plaza' sign.

Ah, that could be.

What I heard was that the "future leasable" area was going to remain vacant land for the time being.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Verge

Not every inch of every major street needs or can support a strong retail presence

Nobody said that. But if there is one street in the entire state of Georgia that should support active uses, it's Peachtree Street. Nobody would be complaining if they were going to build this on Howell Mill, Lenox Road, Memorial Dr, etc... but for Peachtree Street in Midtown, it's unacceptable. Blueprint Midtown shows this lot as medium density mixed-use.

Also note that nobody said it has to have retail. "Active use" is different than retail. It could be residential entrances, museum space, restaurants, etc.

[Tuckerman]

Agree with shivtim. This is our "Prunkstrasse" (show street). It should be special and in particular this area around the city's cultural center needs to be special. Even the name is offensive, given the architecture. "One Museum Place" sends a powerful message that this is connected to the arts, when in fact it is just another high-end residence for a few rich people. Obviously I feel strongly about this - we are donors to the ASO, Alliance and the High and regular participants in their activities. I would only live in OMP so that I wouldn't have to look at it.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Nobody said that. But if there is one street in the entire state of Georgia that should support active uses, it's Peachtree Street. Nobody would be complaining if they were going to build this on Howell Mill, Lenox Road, Memorial Dr, etc... but for Peachtree Street in Midtown, it's unacceptable. Blueprint Midtown shows this lot as medium density mixed-use.

Also note that nobody said it has to have retail. "Active use" is different than retail. It could be residential entrances, museum space, restaurants, etc.

I helped write the zoning for Midtown. "Active use" is anything other than parking, storage, telecom hotels, or mechanical equipment. The project complies with this.

[atl2phx]

love this!

imho, OMP is a great solution for the site and a very nice addition to the neighborhood. as someone else mentioned, i believe the scale and design respects the residential/cultural tone of the area. i have to believe this is a good use of the property and a nice compromise between the original plan that addresses the current market.

given that swiss pearl and slate are a few of the cladding materials mentioned, OMP should be a very well appointed property. the contemporary design and the subdued tones are perfect. i love the use of climbing/boston ivy.

its going to be a gated community, but i would expect that given the amenities and asking price points.

also, being weiland, i'm sure there will be an installation of modern art onsite.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Terminus

I helped write the zoning for Midtown. "Active use" is anything other than parking, storage, telecom hotels, or mechanical equipment. The project complies with this.

Terminus, I really respect what you say and have found that you're a great source of knowledge, but it doesn't seem to jive with what's in Blueprint Midtown:
"Street-level, side-walk accessible retail must be incorporated as an essential component for all mixed-use building types."
"...ongoing focus on developing the Peachtree corridor as a major shopping destination with 14 consecutive blocks of street-level retail from The Fox Theatre to the Woodruff Arts Center."

http://www.midtownatl.com/about/programs-and-projects/planning-and-urban-design

Doesn't the zoning match blueprint? If blueprint has the site as mixed-use, and defines mixed-use as having retail, doesn't the DRC have to follow this guideline? Additionally, is a new curb-cut even allowed on Peachtree Street?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

imho, OMP is a great solution for the site and a very nice addition to the neighborhood. as someone else mentioned, i believe the scale and design respects the residential/cultural tone of the area. i have to believe this is a good use of the property and a nice compromise between the original plan that addresses the current market.

given that swiss pearl and slate are a few of the cladding materials mentioned, OMP should be a very well appointed property. the contemporary design and the subdued tones are perfect. i love the use of climbing/boston ivy.

I like it, too. It respects the surrounding neighborhood and has a strong presence on Peachtree.

I appreciate the objection that you may not be able to walk into a restaurant or shop on the property, but folks paying $1 million and up for a condo may want a little more privacy.

[sunking1056]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I appreciate the objection that you may not be able to walk into a restaurant or shop on the property, but folks paying $1 million and up for a condo may want a little more privacy.

I don't hate the building (though I do share many of the same concerns). I do, though, hate this sentiment. This is a city not a subdivision.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Terminus, I really respect what you say and have found that you're a great source of knowledge, but it doesn't seem to jive with what's in Blueprint Midtown:
"Street-level, side-walk accessible retail must be incorporated as an essential component for all mixed-use building types."
"...ongoing focus on developing the Peachtree corridor as a major shopping destination with 14 consecutive blocks of street-level retail from The Fox Theatre to the Woodruff Arts Center."

http://www.midtownatl.com/about/programs-and-projects/planning-and-urban-design

Doesn't the zoning match blueprint? If blueprint has the site as mixed-use, and defines mixed-use as having retail, doesn't the DRC have to follow this guideline? Additionally, is a new curb-cut even allowed on Peachtree Street?

The zoning does match the Blueprint, which does not call for continuous retail north of 14th Street. Check out page 2, which specifically shows the retail vision:

http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/docs/blueprint-ii_ex_sum.pdf

As you will see, anchoring the retail with the Woodruff Art Center is really about ending it at 14th Street. We did this because you can't just put retail everywhere and expect it to work, especially of the caliper envisioned on the Midtown Mile. Colony Square and the NS buildings are major breaks in the urban fabric north of 14th and kill the willingness of (future) shoppers to walk past their blank walls and dead plazas. In the type of high-quality retail envisioned in Midtown, even a 20 ft blank wall can kill the cohesiveness of the retail district, and between 14th and 15th we're talking hundreds of feet.

As you read other parts of the code you will see this reflected. Sec. 16-18P.013. Supplemental zone actually accounts for this and calls for buildings to be set at lest 30 feet from the back of the sidewalk past 14th Street. This is a striking difference from the shallower setbacks everywhere else in Midtown.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by sunking1056

I don't hate the building (though I do share many of the same concerns). I do, though, hate this sentiment. This is a city not a subdivision.

Well, there are a lot of options between this project and a suburban subdivision.

I think it's common in many cities to have upscale residential buildings that have very limited goings-on at street level. The building may have fenestration on the ground floor, a doorway or a lobby but that's about it.

Just an example here but there are many places like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.789551,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sS3q4-XMv33i0EyKlT3PcrQ!2e0

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Verge

Not every inch of every major street needs or can support a strong retail presence.

That's true, and I'm surprised anyone could think the area is dead and OMP should have retail. Those ideas don't seem compatible. How do they expect any retail to survive if no one is around? I guess some people haven't considered that the addition of residential units will bring more people to the area and allow more retail spaces to be built in the future.

Anyway, in the real world, OMP is only a block from one of the busiest parts of Midtown and more than 100,000 sq ft of retail is already being proposed within a half mile of it. I don't think the absence of one more taqueria is going to result in an apocalypse for the entire neighborhood.

Keep calm and carry on...