LOS ANGELES | Central City Project Rundown 5.0

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I think DTLADenizen does love downtown, which is why he is so hard on it. No, downtown isn't as bad as DTLADenizen makes it, but it isn't as wonderful as other forumers say it is either. For example, there is a growing homeless issue downtown. I was at Bottega Louie the other night getting dessert after Q Sushi (which is the best sushi place in L.A., and I've tried literally every single high end sushi place in L.A.) and there were two homeless men flanking the entrance panhandling. I shouldn't have to walk through a tunnel of homeless just to get to some dessert. This is only gonna get worse with that huge hotel in the historic core being turned into homeless housing. Honestly, someone should place a moratorium on new homeless housing downtown. Why not spread the love around the county a little bit?

Also, OC is probably building more housing than DTLA. OC is fucking massive, DTLA is only 60 something blocks. Be logically, people.

The only thing I don't like about DTALDenizen is that he quoted all his photos when he posted his new batch. Don't do that!

Thank you - I removed the quote.

Homelessness is completely out of control lately, theres not a day that I don't see one of them pissing or shitting on Broadway or Spring. When the patio furniture is brought out (in August) on the extended sidewalks I guarantee you the homeless epidemic on Broadway will be much worse. Just take a drive through historic core and look at any bus bench, park bench, etc. If theres a normal person sitting on it please take a picture (because I won't believe it).

Jose Huizar should be doing something to fix the Broadway homeless problem first before the lack of wide-enough sidewalks.

I've been in Bottega several times and seen homeless people stroll right in, through the dining room, and into the restrooms without being stopped.

[Illithid Dude]

Yeah, the only thing my friends hate about Downtown is having to dodge homeless poop on the sidewalk. Homelessness has been growing generally though in L.A. The other day I walked out of my house and there was a homeless guy sleeping on the sidewalk. I never see homeless people in my neighborhood and suddenly, there one was. It was pretty surprising.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by DTLAdenizen

More office tenants moving out of DTLA. And what I said was it seems to me that more are moving out, because (it feels like) every piece of office news we get is about a company downsizing their spaces.

And I do 100% stand by what I said about Irvine (area) building more housing than DTLA is.


Lastly to be super-clear, the statistics have proved me wrong about Apex, Watermarke, etc being empty. I'm just going by what it feels like on the ground (because, you know, I'm actually in DTLA and paying attention day-to-day). I watch the front doors to buildings throughout historic core where people come and go every few seconds - then I watch the front doors to the luxury products in South Park where you can sit there for literally an hour and not see a single person. I then combine that with how few lights I see on each night in these buildings.

You guys are so childish, I actually contribute to this thread and you go pulling up old crap to try and bring me down? People on this forum are generally from outside DTLA, and need to understand what it feels like to actually be here. BS articles by GQ & NY Times aren't going to give them that. Sorry (I'm not sorry) for my inability to sugarcoat.

I live in downtown too, bro. You accused me of not being a downtown resident a few months ago. I responded where I live (Skyline Condos) and how long (7 years). No response from you at that point.

If somebody disagrees with you, you outcast by saying we don't live here or we're just basing our statements on GQ, New York Times or Money Magazine with its glorious articles.

Have you lived in downtown 7 years? Have you seen each lot around you develop (Apex, Watermarke, Market Lofts and the soon iHope have closed lots since I moved in). Isn't that impressive, Hunter or you think that downtown is still failing?

A lot of us contribute to this forum by talking about firsthand accounts, new articles online about downtown or their experiences. It doesn't necessarily need to be pictures (which I can get on Twitter by searching #dtla).

Irvine is not building more than LA. There is thousands of units in downtown under construction at 8th and Hope, Onni, Related Tower, Block 8, 12th and Olive, 8th and Grand, Olympic and Hill and Olympic and Grand.

You make these empty systems with no back-up and you get us all riled up with anger. Your contributions continue to divert us from the topics by bringing negative statements and unnecessary city v city discussions.

This forum was much better before you entered it.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Yeah, the only thing my friends hate about Downtown is having to dodge homeless poop on the sidewalk. Homelessness has been growing generally though in L.A. The other day I walked out of my house and there was a homeless guy sleeping on the sidewalk. I never see homeless people in my neighborhood and suddenly, there one was. It was pretty surprising.

Yeah the homeless tend to migrate.

News flash: there is no perfect city and no easy solutions to fix the problems cities face. I've lived in Chicago for a year and a half and if you think LA is a frustrating place to live, come here. You will see why Chicago is losing population. I've never seen a more corrupt city. Chicago still hasn't fixed the pothole problem from this past winter, schools are closing left and right, crime is still bad, everyone has a gun and are quite trigger happy, heroin is making a comeback, and yet Rahm Emanuel (who is a horrible mayor) wants to spend millions and millions of money that Chicago doesn't have to light the Chicago River and buildings downtown. The past 2 weeks, we've had our own 'Carmageddon' where they shut down the Kennedy Expressway to destroy a bridge which gridlocked the city as it's the only freeway that connects O'Hare to downtown.

Some of you need to realize that brightly colored 7 story buildings are not a big deal when you see the problems other cities are facing.

And a lot of us have been on this forum for a very long time. I remember walking and chatting with Brigham when LA Live was a hole in the ground and imagining what downtown LA was going to look like in 2007. Hell I remember when LA Central was called Venture. No Watermarke, no Metlofts, no 7 story shit boxes, no South Group, no Palmer's Tuscans (aside from Medici), 1100 Wilshire was still totally empty, the Purple Line was still the Red Line, no Apex, Spring Street was the edge of Skid Row, no Artwalk, no Bottega Louis (hell The Brockman was still covered in it's death shroud) nothing in Little Tokyo, no Grand Park, no nothing. So if you think downtown LA is shit, 10 years ago it was barren. There was NOTHING there. 5:00 was the mass exodus and 5:30 it was ghostly. Realize where we are and the progress DTLA has made in a short period of time. Cities do not grow over night. There will be growing pains. But DTLA of 2014 is light years better than the DTLA of 2004 and that's a fact.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Yeah, the only thing my friends hate about Downtown is having to dodge homeless poop on the sidewalk. Homelessness has been growing generally though in L.A. The other day I walked out of my house and there was a homeless guy sleeping on the sidewalk. I never see homeless people in my neighborhood and suddenly, there one was. It was pretty surprising.

It's so bad in Historic Core. A lot of people, even long-time residents, are jumping ship.

Just checked the DTLA Facebook Page and saw this too:

Edgar Varela (member of DLANC) writes:

It seems the people of downtown are shifting a bit in it's transient population. I am noticing more punk rock style "Hollywood Street Kids", more aggressive drunks and panhandlers. I have spoken to many that like me have been here for 10+ years and they are noticing a change and say despite all the gentrification it is actually feeling less safe in the Historic Core and in DTLA in general. Maybe we should form a neighborhood walk/watch for fun and community. Thoughts?

There are 107 comments on that post.

[LAofAnaheim]

And I was watching the World Cup at 9 am this morning at Dublins on 7th street with 60-80 Brazil fans. Do I need to report that as a downtown experience or we need to discuss homeless people around Bottega Louie?

As Brandon said, nothing is perfect. But downtown is going phenomenal right now. Downtown is not losing population, it's gaining. And that's a fact!

[Mojeda101]

It's gaining homeless too, lol.

[alki]

Originally Posted by DTLAdenizen

More office tenants moving out of DTLA. And what I said was it seems to me that more are moving out, because (it feels like) every piece of office news we get is about a company downsizing their spaces..

Not to pick on you denizen but there is a reason why God created google. A quick search could have answered your question, or you could have ordered JLL's 2013 analysis of major office markets in the US, including DTLA, for which I provided a link on this forum. Had you done that you would know that the DTLA office market is pretty much in stasis and ended 2013 with a slight negative absorption.

Here's a link that provides the Q2/2013 breakdown of the important metrics for DTLA's office market....not the year but just the first two quarters:

http://www.cassidyturley.com/DesktopModu...=2672&fileName=LA_2Q13_Market+Report.pdf

Office markets in general are not doing as well as they normally do after a recession. Of the major markets, DTs SF, Seattle, and Chicago had slight positive absorption in 2013. The two best major markets were NYC and DC. Nonetheless, positive absorption can be a hit or miss thing. For an example, the booming secondary market of Austin had major negative absorption in 2013. Given its job growth, I never would have predicted that conclusion for Austin...but there it is.

So what's happening in DTLA is not so out of line with the rest of the country. However, the big problem is that DTLA has not had decent office market absorption for the past 20 years. Why? Well when you have a major quake and a major uprising within two years of each other that can cast a pretty negative pall over a city. In addition, LA lost a huge portion of its aerospace industry in the early 90s and the leadership for the city has not found a real replacement.

Despite that negativity, DTLA is pretty close to booming.......which is pretty remarkable given the economic back drop of the past 20 years and is pretty much VERY LA. LA seems to always find a way to grow despite the obstacles that might be in its way.

IMO a lot of the disagreements we have on this forum come from not asking each other questions, or not doing a search before we post. Instead, we make assumptions and attack. Everyone is pretty much guilty of that. Yesterday, when I posted my opinion on the Clifton Cafeteria Brudy and ThomJames both asked me how I came to that conclusion. I didn't like ThomJames' approach but I am glad both asked. It prompted me to explain myself and clarify that I was speculating based on my past experience.

I think there are a lot of smart, passionate posters on this forum.......that's what makes it interesting. However I think we need to work a little harder in getting along better. JMO.

[LA/OCman]

First of all it really is against this blog's purpose to compare cities. Having lived in OC much of my life I can assure you most here are not interested in the sprawling culture of our friends in the next county south of us. We are urbanists here. To discuss the success of our city center to a suburban city is futile.

Facts are important so if you quote something, I hope you would always will quote your source. Regarding DTLA and the amount of employees working here, there are many questions to be answered. If you think about those 30,000 plus who have moved here in the past 10 years, I would estimate a decent amount work out of their lofts. Check out this list. I am sure live/work employees would top this list.

http://downtownla.com/pdfs/Econ_employers/major_company_list.pdf

Additionally, do they count USC employees Downtown? That number alone is 23,653 according to USC Facts….and growing:

http://about.usc.edu/facts/

How many construction employees are currently working on projects Downtown? Thousands. The Korean Air building alone will have a total of 11,000 construction jobs. Here is some info from Bloomberg...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-07...otel-building-to-be-tallest-in-l-a-.html

So, office vacancy rates don't always tell the whole story. For those who dwell on the negative…it is part of their character. You can't change 'em….so don't bother trying.

Regarding homelessness…..according to the Chamber of Commerce, the number of units for the homeless is half of what it used to be in DTLA. Many were torn down due to code violations. Plus, we have just come off the worst recession since the Great Depression. On top of that, we are having to empty our prisons due to overcrowding and we have many veterans returning from two wars with severe problems. The solution is not easy. Our warm weather here draws a large homeless population….but we need to do more (government services as well as public/private partnerships). I am hopeful the growing economy will help better the situation and that each one of us holds our politicians responsible for this domestic tragedy.

[alki]

Originally Posted by DTLAdenizen

It's so bad in Historic Core. A lot of people, even long-time residents, are jumping ship.

Maybe we should form a neighborhood walk/watch for fun and community. Thoughts? .

I think the most important takeaway on that FB page was the one I've bolded. DTLA is an urban neighborhood with real live stakeholders and it needs to start acting that way. That means community meetings, neighborhood watches, organized campaigns to get things done, etc.

And before anyone accuses me of talking the talk but not doing the walk........I done my share of changes. When I first got to LA, I hated the strip malls and got my councilman to put a moratorium on their construction in his district.......fortunately he hated the malls too. When we had crime on my street, I got the city to install street lamps.........old fashioned street lamps. Everyone told me the city would never agree to install street lamps and if by some miracle they did, they would be the cobra fixtures. I planted or helped plant nearly 100 trees in LA. There's more but I won't bore you.

The point is people in DT need to get active. There's enough of you and that means you have clout. You don't like the ugly designs..........then do something about it. You don't like the way the homeless people are monitored, then do something about it. You don't like how wide the streets, then do something about it. Oh wait that's me. Never mind.

Seriously, get plugged in and start lighting some fires. It does the body good. Trust.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

Regarding homelessness…..according to the Chamber of Commerce, the number of units for the homeless is half of what it used to be in DTLA. Many were torn down due to code violations. Plus, we have just come off the worst recession since the Great Depression. On top of that, we are having to empty our prisons due to overcrowding and we have many veterans returning from two wars with severe problems. The solution is not easy. Our warm weather here draws a large homeless population….but we need to do more (government services as well as public/private partnerships). I am hopeful the growing economy will help better the situation and that each one of us holds our politicians responsible for this domestic tragedy.

And really......homelessness is a national issue but the Feds are not doing their job. They are putting the onus on cities and its unfair. And the West Coast cities, esp LA, get more than their fair share of homelessness, because the weather is more benign than the rest of the country.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I think DTLADenizen does love downtown, which is why he is so hard on it. No, downtown isn't as bad as DTLADenizen makes it, but it isn't as wonderful as other forumers say it is either. For example, there is a growing homeless issue downtown. I was at Bottega Louie the other night getting dessert after Q Sushi (which is the best sushi place in L.A., and I've tried literally every single high end sushi place in L.A.) and there were two homeless men flanking the entrance panhandling. I shouldn't have to walk through a tunnel of homeless just to get to some dessert. This is only gonna get worse with that huge hotel in the historic core being turned into homeless housing. Honestly, someone should place a moratorium on new homeless housing downtown. Why not spread the love around the county a little bit?

Also, OC is probably building more housing than DTLA. OC is fucking massive, DTLA is only 60 something blocks. Be logical, people.

The only thing I don't like about DTALDenizen is that he quoted all his photos when he posted his new batch. Don't do that!

those two homeless guys in front of Bottega have been there for years. Its annoying as hell and i have no idea why they are allowed to harass people like that.

Brandon, great post putting everything into perspective. The downtown LA of today is so much better than the downtown LA of 2004, its almost unrecognizable. Yes, we still have problems, but we are all working on making it a better place.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by alki

And really......homelessness is a national issue but the Feds are not doing their job. They are putting the onus on cities and its unfair. And the West Coast cities, esp LA, get more than their fair share of homelessness, because the weather is more benign than the rest of the country.

This is absolutely true. It's weird to say this but LA is one of the best cities to be homeless in. Quite a few homeless people in Chicago froze to death because it was absolutely cold this past winter. Wasn't it in the 80's in January in LA? It was in the negatives here (-15 on this one Monday in January with wind chills at -35).

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

No Watermarke, no Metlofts, no 7 story shit boxes, no South Group, no Palmer's Tuscans (aside from Medici), 1100 Wilshire was still totally empty, the Purple Line was still the Red Line, no Apex, Spring Street was the edge of Skid Row, no Artwalk, no Bottega Louis (hell The Brockman was still covered in it's death shroud) nothing in Little Tokyo, no Grand Park, no nothing. So if you think downtown LA is shit, 10 years ago it was barren. There was NOTHING there. 5:00 was the mass exodus and 5:30 it was ghostly. Realize where we are and the progress DTLA has made in a short period of time. Cities do not grow over night. There will be growing pains. But DTLA of 2014 is light years better than the DTLA of 2004 and that's a fact.

that is something I'd want to copy/paste, & I just did.

I generally always like the tone of laofanaheim's posts too.

the only forumer who I really dislike & whose name shall go unmentioned....& thankfully doesn't post too much....is the one who always slams LA, says that ppl in LA are cretins, & loves to make LA sound like a place for losers. The fact he one time tried to flamebait me....or wrote me a weirdly nasty private message....I take as a badge of honor.

as for being honest or candid about the problems of dtla, that can rub some ppl the wrong way, & whenever I come across unflattering descriptions of dt I admit my first reaction is to sort of flinch....even though I know the problems that are being pointed may be totally legitimate ones. So it comes down to whether such criticism is being made constructively, from someone who is truly rooting for dtla, or is being expressed with too much glee....by someone who might be visiting from another city, from perhaps a NYC or SF, or is a happy camper from the distant burbs.

I do think that the bad design of projs like Ava should be placed in full context....in the context of dtla going back over 10, 20 or over 50 yrs.....& I'd be the last one to claim that mediocre architecture of new devlpt in dlta deserves a total gnashing of the teeth & the greatest wringing of the hands, & make it sound like such an issue forever darkens the future of the hood.

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

those two homeless guys in front of Bottega have been there for years. Its annoying as hell and i have no idea why they are allowed to harass people like that.

Brandon, great post putting everything into perspective. The downtown LA of today is so much better than the downtown LA of 2004, its almost unrecognizable. Yes, we still have problems, but we are all working on making it a better place.

Ditto on Brandon's post.

I think in the last couple years since several high rises have gone up, some people have gotten greedy and feel the need to complain about everything... Oh, Metropolis is taking a while to start construction? Boo hoo, this city's a failure. Oh, there's a few whacky looking buildings popping up? Boo hoo. Someone call the whambulance.

You're witnessing the beginning of the transformation of a city center that not long ago most Angelenos went out of their way to avoid. You don't like something, then try to make a difference if you really care. Complaining on the internet is the lazy way.

[The Illusive Man]

Originally Posted by eclipse

Ditto on Brandon's post.

I think in the last couple years since several high rises have gone up, some people have gotten greedy and feel the need to complain about everything... Oh, Metropolis is taking a while to start construction? Boo hoo, this city's a failure. Oh, there's a few whacky looking buildings popping up? Boo hoo. Someone call the whambulance.

You're witnessing the beginning of the transformation of a city center that not long ago most Angelenos went out of their way to avoid. You don't like something, then try to make a difference if you really care. Complaining on the internet is the lazy way.

Exactly. Crying about these things on here constantly isn't going to get anything done. They just don't seem to understand that though for some reason.

[citywatch]

^ dtladenizen, I've yet to come across just about any readers forum out there, involving a wide variety of subjects....from cooking/food to culture, from politics to movies....that doesn't contain plenty of clashing of opinions, oftentimes quite heated, full of sniping, with occasional bouts of flame baiting & trolling.

If one browses through the opinions on yelp, an owner of a store or restaurant would go crazy trying to, & find it impossible, to please any & every customer that walks thru the front door.

as for ppl who find the subj of architecture interesting, the following vid shows a lengthy discussion about the broad museum, with a panel of Eli broad, his museum's director & the main architect of his new bldg on bunker hill. I personally find it a good way of getting a better understanding about what's going on & what the public can look forward to. the second vid gives a brief overview of the plaza & restaurant next to the broad.


• Video Link

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Watching things like that, I find it hard not to get very excited about what's going on in dtla.

but returning to the topic of differing opinions, & how the design of new projs in dtla often elicit a variety of reactions, pro & con, notice the way the following involves another museum in LA, which should be at the top of its game in fostering good aesthetics, good design, even more so when the matter was put together by an artist....

One thing that struck me at LACMA, which I didn’t tweet about, was the paucity of visitors in the Art of the Ancient Americas galleries, where the garishly over-the-top 2008 reinstallation, designed by artist Jorge Pardo (viewed more favorably by the LA Times‘ Christopher Knight), did not include the use of bilingual labels to better serve the area’s substantial Latino population:


artsjournal.com/culturegrrl

OMG! Notice the curtains?! again, this is at LACMA, one of the most important museums in LA, managed by ppl who should be very skilled in good design & artistry....who should have the ability to pick or reject the best design options available.....& involves an area designed by an ARTIST. The art critic of the LA Times liked what that artist did, whereas I find his work surprisingly very tacky.

Reminder: Some of the new apt projs in dtla that have booked up the fastest....presumably reflecting their acceptance by quite a few ppl looking for a place to live in dt....are the faux tuscan bldgs of GH palmer.

[ThomJames]

A worsening homeless problem hasn't been my experience. I live at 9th and Broadway walk to work in the Financial District. Walk down Spring street at least once or twice a week.

My end of Broadway seems no better or worse than the last 5-6 years. Over toward the Financial District same thing. Walked home from LT at around midnight last night, (mostly down Main) other than the odd homeless encampment, and the area in front of Nickel Diner, area seems the same as it has been. Main St seems to actually be a little better these days, IMO

I think the same people that complain about the homeless, how shitty downtown is, then turn around and complain incessantly about projects like Ava. Which architectural masterpiece or not, goes along way to activate the street and clean up the city. Most certainly not my favorite building, but I think looks passable. If you compare it to all the -over-the-decades shitty construction, here, or in many other cities, it probably actually looks nice.

I also think people on here tend to judge a building before it is completely finished sans all the finishing touches. Then once completed about-face and say " Oh, that isn't that bad" Think I heard that quite a bit on here about Avant, in South Park as well

As mentioned, I was in Little Tokyo last night. Didn't see any homeless people around there. Not many in the Financial Dist or South Park or Fashion District where I live.

As for poop on the street/ Sidewalk, I have seen homeless people crap on the street maybe once or so a year. But I'm assuming most of the crap/urine is from dogs. There are some real asshole dog owners out there.

[citywatch]

^ I like the detail & specificity of posts from forumers like you who live or spend lots of time in dtla. I also like the tone of posts from ppl like losangelessportsfan, la/ocman & laofanaheim. Then, too, I like the pics from & candor of forumers like dtladenizen or, as things turn out, the correctness of forumers like brudy...he was right about the way that Ava really does look in broad daylight.

To me, it's all good.

I just like seeing this thread stay active, interesting, continuously being updated.

Obviously, I'll always prefer vids like the following, compared with watching a typical segment on the late night local news show about a breaking story taking place in dt that results in the lapd being called in, or some story about how another homeless shelter is opening in the hood instead of somewhere else....or some story on the city being sued by an activist group & how the sidewalks can no longer be easily cleaned, & homeless ppl can no longer be dealt with, without violating a court order.


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dtla is now the most interesting, active, complicated, sometimes contradictory but also increasingly uplifting hood in all of LA, & I think the diversity....the back & fro....of most of the posts to this thread reflects that.

[alki]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

http://brighamyen.com/2014/06/27/breaking-aeg-worldwide-leased-entire-desmond-building-downtown-la/

Breaking: AEG Worldwide Has Leased Entire Desmond Building in Downtown LA

As it turns out, this lease is a plus for both DTLA and LA in general. Currently AEG has offices in DT and mid Wilshire:

http://www.aegworldwide.com/about/companyoverview/contact

All of the mid Wilshire offices are coming DT. A commenter [to be verified] indicated that currently the two sites have roughly 65K sq ft. The new DT lease is for 80K......that suggests an expansion; not a contraction, assuming the info is correct.