[New Westminster] Anvil Centre | 11 Floors | Completed

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

??? I'm surprised by your take that they aren't progressive. They have added significant commercial and residential densities, preserved heritage and made significant investments in public facilities including Pier Park etc. What more should they be doing?

(Personally I don't think they should have approved plaza 88 in its current form. love the height and density, hate the execution.)

I think maybe they were willing to take what they could get in this case: Plaza 88 predates a lot of the exciting development in the area, and I think the influx of density and affluence to downtown has really helped kick off the current phase of development. Now that things are actually ticking along, I think council can take a stronger stance with developer negotiations.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by NewWester

.. From an actually living in New West perspective, it would be great if Royal wasn't a roaring expressway (especially bad after the Portmann tolls) and if Front Street was pedestrian oriented instead of a raging truck route. ...

I think my view is that downtowns are expected to be busy congested places and cities need routes through them.

In downtown Vancouver, no one expects West Georgia Street in or Waterfront Road (below Canada Place and along the harbour) to be pedestrain oriented streets - they serve particular needs - one is a major traffic artery and other other is vital to port traffic. There are other streets like Robson that provide the pedestrian oriented uses.

Columbia is a pedestrian oriented street, so why can't Front St. take the commercial traffic load rather than trying to be pedestrian oriented. Maybe it's the spread of a "one-size fits all" mentality that seeks to put bike lanes on congested arterial streets despite the danger posed to cyclists.

Outside downtown Vancouver, in reisdential areas, you have heavy commuter traffic on Knight, Cambie, Oak and Granville - but absent a freeway system, those streets are vital to moving traffic.

Is Royal Ave. just New West's version of Granville St. - with extreme rush hour flows? Are residents just longing for the past (the way it used to be?) Granville was probably a quiet street at one time too.

I think it's just part of being is a large metropolitan region with inter-city movements. Short of building freeways and bypasses around the city (i.e. acting like a wall) you'll have people passing through on city streets.

[rcdm]

Originally Posted by c041v

Thanks for the updates rcdm. I recently moved to Edmonton, but still have a place in NW and this site is the best place for updates!

Any chance you could get a shot of the new Pedstrian crossing at fourth street sometime?

I'll try and get some pics of the crossing soon. I'm not sure how far along it is but I'll check it out. Once the western half of the parkade is down and the eastern half is spruced up along with the new pedestrian bridge, the parkade will actually be a charming piece of old infrastructure instead of the eyesore it is now.

I'm also quite happy with the new Larco plans. Westminster Pier Park is now the anchor of the waterfront and the new Larco plan will extend the park with another two acres or so of green space. Three towers with extra green space instead of five towers is a win in my books. I believe they were planning eight towers along the waterfront many years ago before Westminster Pier Park was a possibility. I find the western portion of the waterfront with all those towers to be very closed off, so it seems like they are trying to avoid that happening with the eastern portion.

I understand the traffic flow problem is very difficult. Once the North Fraser Perimeter Road project was shelved, I think New West took their opportunity to make it pedestrian friendly instead of a thoroughfare. Livability would take a giant hit with a highway on the waterfront, which would be a shame, but I understand how some think New West is being selfish. In some ways they are but if they weren't it wouldn't be turning into such a great place to live.

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think my view is that downtowns are expected to be busy congested places and cities need routes through them.

In downtown Vancouver, no one expects West Georgia Street in or Waterfront Road (below Canada Place and along the harbour) to be pedestrain oriented streets - they serve particular needs - one is a major traffic artery and other other is vital to port traffic. There are other streets like Robson that provide the pedestrian oriented uses.

Columbia is a pedestrian oriented street, so why can't Front St. take the commercial traffic load rather than trying to be pedestrian oriented. Maybe it's the spread of a "one-size fits all" mentality that seeks to put bike lanes on congested arterial streets despite the danger posed to cyclists.

Outside downtown Vancouver, in reisdential areas, you have heavy commuter traffic on Knight, Cambie, Oak and Granville - but absent a freeway system, those streets are vital to moving traffic.

Is Royal Ave. just New West's version of Granville St. - with extreme rush hour flows? Are residents just longing for the past (the way it used to be?) Granville was probably a quiet street at one time too.

I think it's just part of being is a large metropolitan region with inter-city movements. Short of building freeways and bypasses around the city (i.e. acting like a wall) you'll have people passing through on city streets.

I find the Vancouver comparison misleading in that downtown Van is much bigger than downtown New West which really only has three of five stretches of commercial (Columbia, Front, Carnarvon Lower Sixth and Lower Eighth). For being such a small urban neighbourhood, currently two very high traffic roads blast through it. I don't think it is unreasonable to want that heavy traffic to pass around the downtown core of New West rather than through it so that the downtown can make better use of its lovely waterfront and so that one of its main concentration of (heritage) commercial property can be better enjoyed. Particularly the truck traffic which really is only going to pass through (downtown Van's truck traffic has designated port streets and a tunnel).

And really, New West streets are already bulging at capacity, so adding or expanding routes into the city without road improvements doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Especially when the tolled Portmann and Golden Ears bridges are driving more traffic off efficient freeways and highways and into the city grid already.

Like, wouldn't it be better if truckers stuck to the freeway or took advantage of South Fraser roads through commercial spaces rather than barreling through a pretty nice largely residential downtown core?

[officedweller]

I'm sure to many Knight St. residents, the truck traffic is "just passing through".

It's also likely that some of the truck traffic through New Westminster is going to and from Queensborough, New Westminster.

WRT a largely residential downtown core - it needn't be that way. It should be a "City". It would have been nice if New Westminster had focussed more office development downtown, instead of at Sapperton (Brewery District) and in future at Braid.

I also think that building the Larco projact at grade will just create problems with the railways tracks. The original plan had the projects elevated with the streets over the tracks and the tracks either decked over or ready to be decked over.


http://www.newwestcity.ca/database/files...n_House_2_Boards_Mar_18_2014_REDUCED.pdf

Compare to Canada Place viaduct near Fairmont Pacific Rim, etc. - walking along it provides great views over the water - without even knowing you're elevated or about all the commercial activity below.

Originally Posted by officedweller

This is the site of Fairmont Pacific Rim, but the entrance is at the level of the viaduct:


http://www.kingstonconstruction.ca/?p=63

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm sure to many Knight St. residents, the truck traffic is "just passing through".

It's also likely that some of the truck traffic through New Westminster is going to and from Queensborough, New Westminster.

WRT a largely residential downtown core - it needn't be that way. It should be a "City". It would have been nice if New Westminster had focussed more office development downtown, instead of at Sapperton (Brewery District) and in future at Braid.

The only new office tower downtown was literally built by the city. If developers aren't interested in building office here, how would you propose New West gets more office downtown?

Brewery District has the advantage of being right across the street from RCH, so medical office space was very attractive and Braid is a tough comparison since the developer there seems to want to build out so much residential, so the city can force them to build office as a bargaining chip. But downtown is, I think a tougher nut to crack unless they make a few floors of office a requirement for all new developments along Columbia...

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm sure to many Knight St. residents, the truck traffic is "just passing through".

It's also likely that some of the truck traffic through New Westminster is going to and from Queensborough, New Westminster.

Knight St. isn't exactly the downtown core of Vancouver, is it?

Oh for sure, I'm not advocating zero trucks here. Trucks with destinations within New West obviously should pass through it. But I'm for fewer trucks that have destinations outside New West and perhaps moving such "passing through" trucks out of the downtown core and along an upgraded Mcbride/Tenth or along (as much as it inconveniences me) along Royal.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by NewWester

The only new office tower downtown was literally built by the city. If developers aren't interested in building office here, how would you propose New West gets more office downtown?

Brewery District has the advantage of being right across the street from RCH, so medical office space was very attractive and Braid is a tough comparison since the developer there seems to want to build out so much residential, so the city can force them to build office as a bargaining chip. But downtown is, I think a tougher nut to crack unless they make a few floors of office a requirement for all new developments along Columbia...

One way would have been to place a moratorium on condos within a "downtown core" (like Vancouver has done) - whether along Sixth St or Columbia St. Sure, it may take years for it to be developed, but then it wouldn't be fighting against more profitable condos. True that office space near RCH has synergy with the hospital, but office space (even if at SkyTrain Stations) is dispersing the commercial market that could help support a more vibrant downtown (and shouldn't comprise the majority of office space in the City).

Office space contributes much more in sustaining retail and restaurants than residential space (just look at Yaletown - retail has a tough time surviving there because there are few shoppers during the day. Only destination restaurants (open at night) seem to survive).

Is New Westminster preserving (through zoning) any sites along Sixth or Columbia for office space?
It seems like much of Columbia is being built out with condos.

WRT Royal Ave. versus Knight St. - Royal is at the edge of downtown - so is Clark Drive, with Strathcona and Commercial Drive to the east.
It's just a busy arterial - among many - and {at least?] one of those arterials needs to be a truck route (if it's not Front, is it Royal?].
In the past, Main St. probably had truck traffic too.
With respect to just "passing though" - then the cargo on those trucks is just passing through on the way overseas (or from overseas).

[NewWester]

I think the idea of placing a moratorium on condo development in down town New West is a bit crazy: as little as 10 or 15 years ago downtown was almost a ghetto. To just accept that as the state of things and the lost tax revenue (New West has a miniscule tax base as is) is kind of nuts. Especially since downtown New West seems to be poised to be a really vibrant little urban commuter core. It's never going to the commercial hub downtown Van is, and I'm glad that council, while interested in preserving and expanding office space, isn't trying to make New West into a mini-Vancouver. (I mean it's only a twenty-five minute skytrain to downtown Van.)

I actually kept an eye out on my last dog walking excursion along Columbia, and really most of the strip is lowrise office with ground level retail. A lot of it is sitting vacant or is leased by groups that I suspect don't pay a lot of rent. I mean, a lot of this office space isn't AAA, but it seems like New West has more office than demand at the moment. I don't think there is space necessarily blocked off for future office, but I suspect many future projects (particularly the rebuilding of the burned down Copps site) will have an office component/podium with condo towers on top. Which for me is pretty ideal and a good use of space along Columbia. I think, except for a few exceptions (anvil centre tower, the old Westminster building) that there is never going to be overwhelming demand for designated pure office high rises in New West. Most of the condos going up at the moment are above carnarvan, which is solid residential anyway or in the Quay area, which has also historically been mostly residential.

(Also, there are a couple proposals going through the process, one on Carnarvan and one on sixth that might have a small office component. I'll have to double check the boards. Also, I think further up sixth the... 238? building has a few floors of office space as well.)

At this present moment both Front and Royal are both designated as truck routes as is 10th avenue which runs parallel 10 minutes up the hill on the border between New West and Burnaby.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by NewWester

I find the Vancouver comparison misleading in that downtown Van is much bigger than downtown New West which really only has three of five stretches of commercial (Columbia, Front, Carnarvon Lower Sixth and Lower Eighth). For being such a small urban neighbourhood, currently two very high traffic roads blast through it. I don't think it is unreasonable to want that heavy traffic to pass around the downtown core of New West rather than through it so that the downtown can make better use of its lovely waterfront and so that one of its main concentration of (heritage) commercial property can be better enjoyed. Particularly the truck traffic which really is only going to pass through (downtown Van's truck traffic has designated port streets and a tunnel).

Well posted, it is difficult if not impossible to compare the two.

The issue with New West is it will never have a "lovely waterfront" for most of it due to the design of the city. Part of the NFPR design was to have it run along an expanded front street along the tracks in such a way that would allow New West to build over and to the other side along the river. That would have in essence created a major transport tunnel running between Stewardson@Columbia and Front@East Columbia.

If you look on a map or walk that stretch, there really isn't anything New West can do along Front Street. For half of the stretch it is a 1 lane road flanked on the left by a giant cliff and on the right by major railroad tracks.

For the other half, it is a smattering of antique stores and closed out retail locations with a giant ugly parkade above it. It is effectively a tunnel already. There is no way New West can get rid of all the railway tracks as they are vital to the region so front street really will never change nor be some amazing pedestrian street.

Ultimately all New West needed to do was say AOK to the NFPR (like the SFPR on the other side) through that stretch, and through the "downtown New West" stretch it would have effectively been completely unseen. That would have removed _ALL_ truck traffic through downtown New Westminster and then with connections to a new Patullo would have effectively removed a huge bulk of traffic from present and future New Westminster.

So from a transportation perspective, New West council is extremely non-progressive. That doesn't mean they are not progressive in other areas. Just transportation I think they get a giant F and the city is suffering today because of their lack of forward thinking. The traffic issues today are completely self inflicted.

And really, New West streets are already bulging at capacity, so adding or expanding routes into the city without road improvements doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Especially when the tolled Portmann and Golden Ears bridges are driving more traffic off efficient freeways and highways and into the city grid already.

NFPR. Would have been an efficient freeway. Ask people in Surrey how amazing the SFPR is today.

Like, wouldn't it be better if truckers stuck to the freeway or took advantage of South Fraser roads through commercial spaces rather than barreling through a pretty nice largely residential downtown core?

NFPR. Again killed by New Westminster. So ask them, wouldn't it have been great? Answer is yes. So why did they kill it when it probably would have solved all of today's issues.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by NewWester

I think the idea of placing a moratorium on condo development in down town New West is a bit crazy: as little as 10 or 15 years ago downtown was almost a ghetto. To just accept that as the state of things and the lost tax revenue (New West has a miniscule tax base as is) is kind of nuts. Especially since downtown New West seems to be poised to be a really vibrant little urban commuter core. It's never going to the commercial hub downtown Van is, and I'm glad that council, while interested in preserving and expanding office space, isn't trying to make New West into a mini-Vancouver. (I mean it's only a twenty-five minute skytrain to downtown Van.)

It needn't be a wide swath under a moratorium - but something - whatever the "core" would be defined as. Even the blocks around Columbia Station.

I tend to think that if tenants like Translink (@ Sapperton) and WestPort Innovations (@ Marine Gateway) chose locations at "suburban" SkyTrain Stations, why wouldn't they choose new office space (if given the opportunity) at a "downtown" Skytrain station like Columbia or New Westminster Station (with many nearby services)?

I agree with jhausner regarding NFPR.

[NewWester]

I'd suggest the area around New West Station is more the core of downtown New West than Columbia, which is kind of at the end. Maybe when they eventually redevelop Columbia Square (which is probably a waayys off) the city can force the developer to include a couple designated office towers. It's a pretty big parcel, which leaves room for some bargaining methinks. It would also be cool if the lot immediately up sixth from the anvil centre which is currently a one story sushi restaurent and parking lot could be another designated office plot. Which would make the anvil centre/westminster building/plaza 88/and maybe a New West CBD.

That said, New West has a population of ~250 000, so I still wouldn't expect a huge downtown core of office only... but suspect a few stories of heritage facade or fake heritage facade office podium might be the rule for along columbia. It could still generate a ton of office square footage, while also allowing for increased residential and retail commercial density in the area. I think that's my ideal.

Yeah, I still don't know about the NFPR. In New West the argument, and sticking point, was the united boulevard extension and that it was going to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for Sapperton, muck up the already horribly congestion Braid street further, and just increase traffic into New West by bringing tri-city traffic that currently detours around the city into it. Although, I'm not entirely sold on it. I suspect part of the issue is like with the HST, where the Liberals took a pretty good idea (I have a lot of issues with their implementation but still...) and ruined it by not consulting with the public properly and forcing the idea through BEFORE there was support for it. But yeah, I dunno.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by NewWester

That said, New West has a population of ~250 000,

How did you get that number? Wikipedia says 65k and 250k would make it larger than Burnaby.

[NewWester]

Ha! I pulled it out of my 🞵🞵🞵🞵. How embarrassing! 65K it is. (So much for credibility, eh?)

Which actually makes my point even better: trying to suggest New West ought to command Vancouver, Surrey, or Burnaby clout is kind of mad. It's a small, mostly residential city that is packed so close to larger cities that are far more likely to be major commercial hubs.

Although, it occurred to me that maybe New West could be poised to hoover up some of the businesses that moved to Chinatown from Gastown when Chinatown rents go up as gentrification blows through there. If so, smaller office units in larger buildings might make more sense, since I still can't see a huge demand for giant open concept mega office space.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by NewWester

... It would also be cool if the lot immediately up sixth from the anvil centre which is currently a one story sushi restaurent and parking lot could be another designated office plot. Which would make the anvil centre/westminster building/plaza 88/and maybe a New West CBD.

Any chance of Douglas College expanding?
Others like Langara and VCC seem to be expanding.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Ha! I pulled it out of my 🞵🞵🞵🞵. How embarrassing! 65K it is. (So much for credibility, eh?)

Which actually makes my point even better: trying to suggest New West ought to command Vancouver, Surrey, or Burnaby clout is kind of mad. It's a small, mostly residential city that is packed so close to larger cities that are far more likely to be major commercial hubs.

Although, it occurred to me that maybe New West could be poised to hoover up some of the businesses that moved to Chinatown from Gastown when Chinatown rents go up as gentrification blows through there. If so, smaller office units in larger buildings might make more sense, since I still can't see a huge demand for giant open concept mega office space.

new west has been called the "brooklyn" of greater vancouver

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

new west has been called the "brooklyn" of greater vancouver

Would that it was! Be great for my property value!

[SpongeG]

i have an old coworker who lives there and he is involved in the arts scene and is always posting about events going on there

Head out to New West when Vancouver starts to get boring

Vancouver Needs a Brooklyn, and New West Could Be It

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i have an old coworker who lives there and he is involved in the arts scene and is always posting about events going on there

Head out to New West when Vancouver starts to get boring

Vancouver Needs a Brooklyn, and New West Could Be It

Interesting, but the Tyee article is a little hyperbolic. I'd hardly characterize Downtown New West as a mecha of "artist studios" and "indie cafes". And the taqueria the article mentions served me the saltiest, most awful taco I've ever eaten. New West has great stuff, and there are certainly gems there, but it's not yet Main Street 2. I think it has the potential to be that, but not yet.

Also, I would kill for a properly good bakery in the neighbourhood. (That actually serves regular gluten bread.)

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Ha! I pulled it out of my 🞵🞵🞵🞵. How embarrassing! 65K it is. (So much for credibility, eh?)

Which actually makes my point even better: trying to suggest New West ought to command Vancouver, Surrey, or Burnaby clout is kind of mad. It's a small, mostly residential city that is packed so close to larger cities that are far more likely to be major commercial hubs.

Although, it occurred to me that maybe New West could be poised to hoover up some of the businesses that moved to Chinatown from Gastown when Chinatown rents go up as gentrification blows through there. If so, smaller office units in larger buildings might make more sense, since I still can't see a huge demand for giant open concept mega office space.

I still think New West could gain some commercial space over time. It is well positioned. As Surrey grows (ok if Surrey continues to grow) as with Metrotown which is definitely growing, New West starts to be less the far out former capital suburb, and becomes more central to a more diversified region.

None of the major cities though will ever command the office space that Vancouver does. Not in our life times.