Atlantic Canada airport thread

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by mmmatt

Terrible news about the United flight, although I half expected it when Continental was bought out...They really stood behind the flight and marketed it well in NB...that all ended when United took over.

Hopefully someone will fill the void soon.

Completely agree. Continental was Skyteam then too. It does bother me that last fall when they (United) came here and were given praise by business leaders (Robert Irving) that nothing seemed to be wrong. I know the aviation biz can change at the drop of a hat but wow. On the hopes and dreams level, if the GMIA can show good numbers to AA or Delta..... well..... maybe.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by mmmatt

Terrible news about the United flight, although I half expected it when Continental was bought out...They really stood behind the flight and marketed it well in NB...that all ended when United took over.

Hopefully someone will fill the void soon.

I must admit as someone who is in and around airports often I dont believe I once saw any mention or marketing of this flight. It really did not work for anyone outisde the immediate GMIA area as it was so early in the AM.

This certainly opens an opportunity for either YSJ or YFC to try and snag a US based flight but I imagine the proximity to BGR makes it unrealistic for both. Personally i would much rather see additional YYZ or YUL flights.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by mmmatt

I'm quite jealous of you and nwalbert for your globetrotting ways!!

Here I was getting excited to fly to Montreal for a week of training this month!

Haha... trust me it appears MUCH more glamorous than it is.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I must admit as someone who is in and around airports often I dont believe I once saw any mention or marketing of this flight. It really did not work for anyone outisde the immediate GMIA area as it was so early in the AM.

This certainly opens an opportunity for either YSJ or YFC to try and snag a US based flight but I imagine the proximity to BGR makes it unrealistic for both. Personally i would much rather see additional YYZ or YUL flights.

I really can't see how BGR would be redundant to service in New Brunswick. Sure, the leisure traveler uses BGR to save money (Allagiant Air) but that would hurt Air Transat and Sunwing. I know personally people who have driven to BGR for vacation trips to Florida, but the business traveler is a different animal. New Brunswick needs that direct connection with the U.S. so that business can be accomplished more efficiently and seamlessly.... otherwise... all we can hope is that they will use Skype.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

I really can't see how BGR would be redundant to service in New Brunswick. Sure, the leisure traveler uses BGR to save money (Allagiant Air) but that would hurt Air Transat and Sunwing. I know personally people who have driven to BGR for vacation trips to Florida, but the business traveler is a different animal. New Brunswick needs that direct connection with the U.S. so that business can be accomplished more efficiently and seamlessly.... otherwise... all we can hope is that they will use Skype.

I agree... Business travelers dont bother going to BGR as cost is usually not as big of a factor.

However I disagree that a US connection is critical to business success. As someone who has done a few hundred business trips all over the world I fail to see what area in the world cannot be served by YYZ.

Sure, if we had a connection to Boston and you were flying to/from Boston for business it would be beneficial to have a direct. If your going ANYWHERE else in the world your making your connection in Boston. You can do the same thing in Toronto. I fail to see the advantage.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Sure, if we had a connection to Boston and you were flying to/from Boston for business it would be beneficial to have a direct. If your going ANYWHERE else in the world your making your connection in Boston. You can do the same thing in Toronto. I fail to see the advantage.

There's probably far more connections to U.S. cities from Boston than there are from Toronto.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by OliverD

There's probably far more connections to U.S. cities from Boston than there are from Toronto.

That is the general assumption I hear people make but it is incorrect. Pearson serves the US VERY well.... we just need better connections to Pearson.

I will admit that a flight to OHare like Halifax has would be a different story.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I agree... Business travelers dont bother going to BGR as cost is usually not as big of a factor.

However I disagree that a US connection is critical to business success. As someone who has done a few hundred business trips all over the world I fail to see what area in the world cannot be served by YYZ.

Sure, if we had a connection to Boston and you were flying to/from Boston for business it would be beneficial to have a direct. If your going ANYWHERE else in the world your making your connection in Boston. You can do the same thing in Toronto. I fail to see the advantage.

Well, here is a quote from the GMIA website.

Robert Irving, Co-CEO of J.D. Irving Limited and Chair of Greater Moncton’s Economic Leadership Council, also emphasized United’s New York/Newark connection as vital to the local economy.

“Infrastructure and transportation are very important components to J.D. Irving Limited’s growth,” Mr. Irving said. “We choose to give our business to United because they provide us with outstanding service and value,” he said. “Our people are travelling daily to see our U.S. operations and our customers in the Northeast and throughout the U.S. To have a daily direct non-stop flight to Newark makes doing business in Northeast, the U.S. and around the world much easier for us.”

“Today, I want to say that our success is helped in part because of United Airlines’ continued investment in the Greater Moncton International Airport. Without your airline, your dedicated flight and operations staff, we’d have fewer options and we’d have less flexibility. Your presence is very good for the region.”

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Well, here is a quote from the GMIA website.

Robert Irving, Co-CEO of J.D. Irving Limited and Chair of Greater Moncton’s Economic Leadership Council, also emphasized United’s New York/Newark connection as vital to the local economy.

“Infrastructure and transportation are very important components to J.D. Irving Limited’s growth,” Mr. Irving said. “We choose to give our business to United because they provide us with outstanding service and value,” he said. “Our people are travelling daily to see our U.S. operations and our customers in the Northeast and throughout the U.S. To have a daily direct non-stop flight to Newark makes doing business in Northeast, the U.S. and around the world much easier for us.”

“Today, I want to say that our success is helped in part because of United Airlines’ continued investment in the Greater Moncton International Airport. Without your airline, your dedicated flight and operations staff, we’d have fewer options and we’d have less flexibility. Your presence is very good for the region.”

I wouldn't call that an unbiased assessment of the flight accessibility of Newark vs. Pearson but please don't get me wrong, I don't think its a positive thing that the flight has been cancelled. I think it will impact the passenger numbers at GMIA.

Personally I just don't see a flight to the US as the key to quality air service in NB. I see the key as frequent, efficient and reliable service to a major hub. Since we are mainly serviced by AC our best shot at that is Pearson or Montreal.

If we could have connections to multiple hubs that is a bonus but for me, I see the key as bigger planes (lower prices) going more often (better connections).

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I wouldn't call that an unbiased assessment of the flight accessibility of Newark vs. Pearson but please don't get me wrong, I don't think its a positive thing that the flight has been cancelled. I think it will impact the passenger numbers at GMIA.

Personally I just don't see a flight to the US as the key to quality air service in NB. I see the key as frequent, efficient and reliable service to a major hub. Since we are mainly serviced by AC our best shot at that is Pearson or Montreal.

If we could have connections to multiple hubs that is a bonus but for me, I see the key as bigger planes (lower prices) going more often (better connections).

Demand and frequency drives plane size. Lower prices are driven by competition. Just because you have a bigger plane doesn't mean you will have lower prices. I went to AC's website and checked the price on a flight from Halifax to Toronto one way on July 14. The price changes very little but the plane sizes changed from E-jets to 767's. In some cases the E-jets were actually cheaper.

Of course Mr. Irving has an agenda. What he says is still no less valid. Business wants choice. Choice creates flexibility, competition and opportunity. As you say, no it is not "critical" to have multiple hubs, but, in the global economy, it certainly gives you an advantage that I think is necessary for our province to compete.

I do agree that the frequent, efficient and reliable service that AC offers us to Pearson is the foundation of our business air travel in Moncton.... but we need to grow beyond that. Look at the choice Halifax has and the opportunities it creates for business.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Demand and frequency drives plane size. Lower prices are driven by competition. Just because you have a bigger plane doesn't mean you will have lower prices. I went to AC's website and checked the price on a flight from Halifax to Toronto one way on July 14. The price changes very little but the plane sizes changed from E-jets to 767's. In some cases the E-jets were actually cheaper.

Of course Mr. Irving has an agenda. What he says is still no less valid. Business wants choice. Choice creates flexibility, competition and opportunity. As you say, no it is not "critical" to have multiple hubs, but, in the global economy, it certainly gives you an advantage that I think is necessary for our province to compete.

I do agree that the frequent, efficient and reliable service that AC offers us to Pearson is the foundation of our business air travel in Moncton.... but we need to grow beyond that. Look at the choice Halifax has and the opportunities it creates for business.

Larger planes with more seats are generally more cost efficient which drives down cost per seat for the operator. Competition can drive down price but more often it is driven down by reduced costs. Looking at a single random day doesnt tell us much since seat cost is also greatly impacted by passenger load on the particular flight. The last few seats on any plane are always multiple times more expensive that the first seats sold.

Like I said, a flight to another hub is great. However I feel that consistent service to YYZ is more valuable to the region.

It is all for not anyway since we most likely wont see a centralized airport that would actually be capable of delivering either of these things on a reliable basis.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Competition can drive down price but more often it is driven down by reduced costs.

Well I guess we will agree to disagree. From my point of view, competition and demand drive the price of air fares. Controlling your costs will determine how much profit you make. Yes, a larger plane can have lower cost per seat but that doesn't mean they will pass those savings on to you if the demand is there and the competition isn't. Why would they?

[MonctonRad]

Congratulations to the St. John's International Airport on the inaugural flight of WestJet's new service to Dublin, Ireland!

With over 11,000 tickets already sold for this service, this is turning out to be a huge success.

There is already talk of new WestJet flights from St. John's to places like Scandinavia and Paris. It is conceivable that St. John's could become a major east coast hub for WestJet service to Europe.

If so, this would also auger well for improved connections (via WestJet or it's new regional airline) between the Maritimes and St. John's. There would certainly be demand for connecting flights to Europe, and if you add this to the ex-pat Newfoundland community in the region, students going to MUN, and business and recreational travel to Newfoundland and I can see a strong business case being made.

I look forward to the possibility of a WestJet route from GMIA to St John's…..

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Congratulations to the St. John's International Airport on the inaugural flight of WestJet's new service to Dublin, Ireland!

With over 11,000 tickets already sold for this service, this is turning out to be a huge success.

There is already talk of new WestJet flights from St. John's to places like Scandinavia and Paris. It is conceivable that St. John's could become a major east coast hub for WestJet service to Europe.

If so, this would also auger well for improved connections (via WestJet or it's new regional airline) between the Maritimes and St. John's. There would certainly be demand for connecting flights to Europe, and if you add this to the ex-pat Newfoundland community in the region, students going to MUN, and business and recreational travel to Newfoundland and I can see a strong business case being made.

Wow! 11,000 tickets sold is impressive that quick. I believe St Johns already has an AC flight to LHR. At least they did a few years back. I would be surprised if there was enough traffic to justify a third European destination.

It is somewhat hard to believe there is no NB route to NFLD. I could see YSJ well poised for a route like that with the connection in the Energy sector but I am sure an airline would be serving that route if there was sufficient demand.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Wow! 11,000 tickets sold is impressive that quick. I believe St Johns already has an AC flight to LHR. At least they did a few years back. I would be surprised if there was enough traffic to justify a third European destination.

It is somewhat hard to believe there is no NB route to NFLD. I could see YSJ well poised for a route like that with the connection in the Energy sector but I am sure an airline would be serving that route if there was sufficient demand.

We do have an Air Canada route YYT-LHR and they just announced that they would extend it to daily year round. West Jet also mentioned possible direct routes to Scandinavia and Paris in the near future

also, those 11,000 seats that they mentioned, were sold in the first 24 hours. More have been sold since.

CEO of WestJet Gregg Saretsky addressed the St. John's Board of Trade this morning to discuss the company's first transatlantic flight from St. John's to Dublin. VOCM's Katie Thompson has more.

In the fall of last year, WestJet offered service from St. John's to Dublin for $199 one way. Newfoundlanders jumped on the chance to fly to Europe and purchased 85 per cent of the 11,000 seats sold in the first 24 hours. Saretsky says WestJet is considering expanding their transatlantic service past Dublin.

Saretsky mentioned Scandinavia and Paris as future direct destinations. The CEO also talked about the future of WestJet including new in flight entertainment which uses wireless technology to send movies and tv shows to your personal device. Saretsky also says the airline is now offering wireless in flight access.

The first transatlantic flight to Dublin leaves St. John's this Sunday at 11 a.m.

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&ID=46907

I have my tickets for late July got them after the initial sale but still got them for $620 return taxes in

[MonctonRad]

If St. John's becomes WestJet's European hub for Atlantic Canada, we'll need that flight connection from the GMIA to St. John's even more than ever!!

This is what air travel in the region needs - meaningful competition for Air Canada.

[Sunnybrae]

Not sure why the St. John's route map on the airport website shows Moncton as a direct flight. Is there something i'm missing?

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Not sure why the St. John's route map on the airport website shows Moncton as a direct flight. Is there something i'm missing?

it was probably from when they WERE going to put one in but pulled out before it even started and the Airport has probably just not removed it. OR maybe there's something in the works

yes, this is an old image. The London route is now year round and the Dublin route isn't there.

http://www.stjohnsairport.com/index/index.cfm?id=43

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Not sure why the St. John's route map on the airport website shows Moncton as a direct flight. Is there something i'm missing?

Probably because of the ill fated Pascan misadventure.....

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

it was probably from when they WERE going to put one in but pulled out before it even started and the Airport has probably just not removed it. OR maybe there's something in the works

yes, this is an old image. The London route is now year round and the Dublin route isn't there.

http://www.stjohnsairport.com/index/index.cfm?id=43

Interesting Geographical placement of NFLD in that graphic. Its a little more out of the way to Europe than that.