Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[UPP]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

That would make sense. So where are the temporary bleachers in the renders? Behind the end zone? And speaking of end zones, is that a series of patio decks at the opposite end?

That will be a 'General Admission' area sort of like what they have at the Cowboy's stadium in Dallas (also built by this firm). It'll be a tiered pub/beer garden that will hold up to 2000. Those numbers are not included in the 33,000 seats so total attendance could be around 35,000 for home games.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by UPP

That will be a 'General Admission' area sort of like what they have at the Cowboy's stadium in Dallas (also built by this firm). It'll be a tiered pub/beer garden that will hold up to 2000. Those numbers are not included in the 33,000 seats so total attendance could be around 35,000 for home games.

Unlike Jerry World, it looks like they have made them more like proper terraces so people standing at the back can actually see the game. Fair play to them, terraces are the best place to watch games.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not saying that there weren't issues with IGF, but what are the problems with materials?

Also, not sure what you consider to be an adequately large video screen, but the ones in Winnipeg are 120 x 30 which makes them among the biggest you will find in North American stadiums...

Yes you compare the detailed drawings and renders and there was a bait and switch with materials. The siding of IGF was supposed to be different and you can see visually they cheaper out on materials. It was supposed to be way nicer then it turned out. These facilities age quickly if they are not done right the first time. BMO field shows us what happens when you go on the cheap as less then 10 years later the building is (almost) inferior and now needs massive upgrades.

The video boards at IGF for new/recent construction are among he smallest. The Vikings are expanding their main board from a original size they thought was to small, and even that was still larger then IGF. Levis Stadium for the 49ers for example there boards will be 49 x 200, Jacksonville is installing the leagues largest screens with total screen space at 54,000 square feet over their old total space of 7,000 square feet. The reasons for this are as I noted. Even in football crazy America the NFL now has to compete with the couch and TV which offers a better experience for many then the stadium. Plus these are cheap addictions. Video boards cost at most for the high end models $8 million, the average boards we see at IGF likely cost &1 million. It's a "cheap" method of boosting the fan experience, no clue why Canadian stadiums have shuned this emerging trend when we started it with Skydome with the Jumbotron. The only place that did it right is BC Place since for indoor/outdoor facilities the large center hung board is the new standard.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by osmo

Yes you compare the detailed drawings and renders and there was a bait and switch with materials. The siding of IGF was supposed to be different and you can see visually they cheaper out on materials. It was supposed to be way nicer then it turned out. These facilities age quickly if they are not done right the first time. BMO field shows us what happens when you go on the cheap as less then 10 years later the building is (almost) inferior and now needs massive upgrades.

Really now... it looks more or less as advertised to me.

The biggest differences that I can see relate to the roof... heavier trusses for sure, and the vertical beams anchoring each end are not clad the way that they are in the rendering. I don't think that will have much of an impact on the fan experience, though.

Oh, I guess it looks like there might be a little less glass on the clubhouse than initially envisioned too.

The video boards at IGF for new/recent construction are among he smallest. The Vikings are expanding their main board from a original size they thought was to small, and even that was still larger then IGF. Levis Stadium for the 49ers for example there boards will be 49 x 200, Jacksonville is installing the leagues largest screens with total screen space at 54,000 square feet over their old total space of 7,000 square feet. The reasons for this are as I noted. Even in football crazy America the NFL now has to compete with the couch and TV which offers a better experience for many then the stadium. Plus these are cheap addictions. Video boards cost at most for the high end models $8 million, the average boards we see at IGF likely cost &1 million. It's a "cheap" method of boosting the fan experience, no clue why Canadian stadiums have shuned this emerging trend when we started it with Skydome with the Jumbotron. The only place that did it right is BC Place since for indoor/outdoor facilities the large center hung board is the new standard.

Both IGF screens are 30' x 123', which is slightly bigger than Rogers Centre. I guess they could have just gone with one slightly bigger screen like at new Mosaic, but having a big screen at each end is a pretty good amenity and ensures ideal viewing distances. Besides, these things can easily be replaced down the line.

[tomthumb2]

Haven't had the pleasure to see a game in Winnipeg yet but that stadium looks super nice, like if Seattle's Century Link had a baby. It sure as hell beats what they had before. If they built something like that in Calgary I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about outside materials.

[lubicon]

I'll give Mosaic a 9 out of 10. Just wish there was a little more seating at 33 000 seems a little on the small size. I would have preferred seeing closer to 40k.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I'll give Mosaic a 9 out of 10. Just wish there was a little more seating at 33 000 seems a little on the small size. I would have preferred seeing closer to 40k.

The fact that a city of 200,000 can fill a 33,000 seat stadium is amazing in its own right... that is a huge stadium for that size of a city.

Think about it: the most popular team in a hard-core sports town like Chicago is the Chicago Bears, and their home stadium is not even twice as big as new Mosaic. That's a metro area of 9.5 million... almost 50 times as big as Regina! The Riders will get slightly over half the crowds that the Bears get, but with just 2% of the population.

Being a Winnipegger I obviously have no love for the Riders, but I respect their fans for being some of the most devoted in all of sport.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I'll give Mosaic a 9 out of 10. Just wish there was a little more seating at 33 000 seems a little on the small size. I would have preferred seeing closer to 40k.

There's a growing trend in the CFL to build stadiums in the 26-35k capacity range with the option to add temporary seating for the Grey Cup.

This creates more demand for tickets and looks far more favourable on television than half empty 50,000+ cavernous stadiums.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

There's a growing trend in the CFL to build stadiums in the 26-35k capacity range with the option to add temporary seating for the Grey Cup.

This creates more demand for tickets and looks far more favourable on television than half empty 50,000+ cavernous stadiums.

This trend is widespread... MLB stadiums of the last 15-20 years are smaller than the ones built in the 60s and 70s. NFL stadiums, with the exception of Cowboys Stadium, are generally smaller than their predecessors. NASCAR tracks are demolishing grandstands to reduce capacity. NHL and NBA arenas are kind of holding steady, but certainly aren't growing anymore.

The formula for pro sports now seems to be to reduce seating capacity to ensure scarcity and to jack up the prices as much as possible with buyers knowing that if they give their tickets up, they won't soon get another crack it. Basically, every team wants to follow the Leafs' strategy now.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I'll give Mosaic a 9 out of 10. Just wish there was a little more seating at 33 000 seems a little on the small size. I would have preferred seeing closer to 40k.

At first I thought the same thing, but I just calculated the Roughrider's average regular season attendance last year and it came out to be 37,503, with the lowest attended game getting 32,701 fans. So I think 33,000 is just fine. You could probably make the temporary expansions permanent if the small capacity ever does become a real issue.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

At first I thought the same thing, but I just calculated the Roughrider's average regular season attendance last year and it came out to be 34,140, with the lowest attended game getting 32,701 fans. So I think 33,000 is just fine. You could probably make the temporary expansions permanent if the small capacity ever does become a real issue.

Regular season average was 37,503...

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Regular season average was 37,503...

I just recalculated and you are correct. That's why I didn't get into UBC Edited my post above.

The lowest attended game still stands though, and I think that's a better indication of how many seats to build, so that events like the Banjo Bowl don't skew the results.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

At first I thought the same thing, but I just calculated the Roughrider's average regular season attendance last year and it came out to be 37,503, with the lowest attended game getting 32,701 fans. So I think 33,000 is just fine. You could probably make the temporary expansions permanent if the small capacity ever does become a real issue.

I predict temporary end zone seating right from the get-go.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

I predict temporary end zone seating right from the get-go.

I hope so. I think empty seats bringing down atmosphere are a bit exagerated. The Lions get an average of 28,000-29,000 people a game in a 54,000 seat stadium, and I still get a rush when I'm there, even if I'm sitting in the upper bowl that is 90% empty.

Or maybe that's because I'm used to the atmosphere at Canucks games

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I hope so. I think empty seats bringing down atmosphere are a bit exagerated. The Lions get an average of 28,000-29,000 people a game in a 54,000 seat stadium, and I still get a rush when I'm there, even if I'm sitting in the upper bowl that is 90% empty.

Or maybe that's because I'm used to the atmosphere at Canucks games

I agree, even with 4-5k empty seats, a Rider game is still going to be loud with amazing atmosphere at the new stadium (having the 40k expansion capacity in mind here).

The problem, I think, is that people get the picture that with empty seats, you'd get a Skydome atmosphere... but I think we can agree that Argo fans and Rider fans might be a tad bit different in their general intensity... I'm excited to hear what the noise level with a roof to reflect/trap the sound would be like.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I agree, even with 4-5k empty seats, a Rider game is still going to be loud with amazing atmosphere at the new stadium (having the 40k expansion capacity in mind here).

The problem, I think, is that people get the picture that with empty seats, you'd get a Skydome atmosphere... but I think we can agree that Argo fans and Rider fans might be a tad bit different in their general intensity... I'm excited to hear what the noise level with a roof to reflect/trap the sound would be like.

I'm not, at least not when the Lions are in town!!

[UPP]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I'll give Mosaic a 9 out of 10. Just wish there was a little more seating at 33 000 seems a little on the small size. I would have preferred seeing closer to 40k.

While I agree that I'd like a bit bigger stadium, I think we need to remember first and foremost that they are:

1) dealing with a tight budget and every seat costs money
2) dealing with a limited amount of space; they're going to have to shoe-horn this stadium in that area already
3) they aren't counting the 'general admission area' which is like a pub-viewing area that will add another 2,000 to the capacity

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Haven't had the pleasure to see a game in Winnipeg yet but that stadium looks super nice, like if Seattle's Century Link had a baby. It sure as hell beats what they had before. If they built something like that in Calgary I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about outside materials.

Hell, I though the old Bomber stadium (CanadInns) was better than McMahon


I had a chance to see the Bombers at a preseason game last year (am a Bomber fan myself) and it was amazing relative to other stadiums I've been to in Canada.

Hopefully all these new stadiums puts the idea for the Stamps to start thinking about seriously moving forward.

Originally Posted by esquire

The fact that a city of 200,000 can fill a 33,000 seat stadium is amazing in its own right... that is a huge stadium for that size of a city.

Think about it: the most popular team in a hard-core sports town like Chicago is the Chicago Bears, and their home stadium is not even twice as big as new Mosaic. That's a metro area of 9.5 million... almost 50 times as big as Regina! The Riders will get slightly over half the crowds that the Bears get, but with just 2% of the population.

Being a Winnipegger I obviously have no love for the Riders, but I respect their fans for being some of the most devoted in all of sport.

Yep precisely this. Similar size to IGF too which is neat. Very impressive, I don't like the riders either but massive respect for the support the riders receive. Sask fans are fantastic imo.

[osmo]

The Chicago comparison makes sense but its kind of a stretch, and football is the only sport that could get away with it (aside form Hockey in Canada, Footy in the UK/Europe).

Green Bay is even smaller than Regina and they have recently expanded Lambeu Field close to 70,000 and have had every game sold out for decades. Football is a event sport and very small places if they support their team can manage to fill a Stadium for 10 days out of the year.

[tomthumb2]

What's really incredible about Regina is that they are also rebuilding the entire area, which anyone who lives there or been to that area can tell you is pretty grim. Some nice concepts here:

http://www.reginarevitalization.ca

Plus a video (scrub to :35 secs to skip the sappy intro):
• Video Link