DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

BTW, it seems slightly odd that Fort Collins is using NABI articulated buses while RTD is using New Flyer. One would think Fort Collins could've saved some money by doing a joint order.

Not a criticism so much as an observation. I assume they looked at both and had a good reason.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Actually, the best way to vist the breweries is by bike.

Start north at Black Shirt then hit (roughly north to south)

Crooked Stave (If you can jump your bike over railroad tracks)
Epic
Our Mutual Friend
River North
Great Divide
Jagged Mountain
Skip Wynkoop, Breck, Chophouse and Rock Yard and Sandlot - ride through Commons Park/CPV to:
Denver Beer Co. (Ambiance is better than the beer)
Prost
Diebolt (If you head north to Sunnyside)
Get on S. Platte Trail
Strange
Wit's End
Colorado Cider Co.
Take 8th Viaduct to Santa Fe/Kalamath
Breck (Real one)
Black Sky
Renegade
LoDown
Ride to S. Broadway
Baere (If they're even open yet)
Trve
If you're still not drunk, head to Platte Park
Former Future

You should be hammered by the end.

That's also a good drunken Car2Go route. Don't judge. That's no less safe than a BUI.

I was thinking Fort Collins though. Do you have a comparable FTC circuit you like?

[seventwenty]

I'm narcing, bunt.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Actually, the best way to vist the breweries is by bike.

Start north at Black Shirt then hit (roughly north to south)

Crooked Stave (If you can jump your bike over railroad tracks)
Epic
Our Mutual Friend
River North
Great Divide
Jagged Mountain
Skip Wynkoop, Breck, Chophouse and Rock Yard and Sandlot - ride through Commons Park/CPV to:
Denver Beer Co. (Ambiance is better than the beer)
Prost
Diebolt (If you head north to Sunnyside)
Get on S. Platte Trail
Strange
Wit's End
Colorado Cider Co.
Take 8th Viaduct to Santa Fe/Kalamath
Breck (Real one)
Black Sky
Renegade
LoDown
Ride to S. Broadway
Baere (If they're even open yet)
Trve
If you're still not drunk, head to Platte Park
Former Future

You should be hammered by the end.

I was going to do a small tour of bars downtown the penultimate time I was there. A friend suggested I try Trve the first night I was there and I had their salted wheat beer, didn't have anything else the rest of the weekend.

The last time I was there they were out and my mood was finally appropriate for the ambiance of the bar .

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Trve

That is one interesting brewery. Heavy metal, pentagrams, goat skulls... There's nothing like a taste of satan with a splash of hell while enjoying your beer.

Of course, since this is a transit discussion, I will take the 0, or ride my bike there. If I'm daring I'll passenger in Bunt's Car2Go.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

BTW, it seems slightly odd that Fort Collins is using NABI articulated buses while RTD is using New Flyer. One would think Fort Collins could've saved some money by doing a joint order.

Not a criticism so much as an observation. I assume they looked at both and had a good reason.

Individual bureaucracies. Combine that with having to work with Godzilla*, and Ft Collins' doing it's own thing is understandable.

*In honor of the new Godzilla movie.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

*In honor of the new Godzilla movie.

New? Wait, you mean this isn't an original movie? How disappointing. We young whipper snappers don't have any fresh ideas.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

BTW, it seems slightly odd that Fort Collins is using NABI articulated buses while RTD is using New Flyer. One would think Fort Collins could've saved some money by doing a joint order.

Not a criticism so much as an observation. I assume they looked at both and had a good reason.

Differing order schedules. I think Fort Collins had their BRT order locked up a couple of years ago while RTD didn't select a bus for the MetroRide until fall of 2013 and piggybacked their on a larger order for other replacement articulated buses for the fleet.

[Zmapper]

Transfort's NABI buses were also far more expensive than RTD's order: $800k v. ~$630k. Lest it be thought this was due to bulk-purchasing, CyRide in Ames also bought artics from Nova Bus for the same price as RTD's New Flyer buses.

My completely hypothetical conjecture is the bus companies base their prices off of perceived willingness to pay: The presume that liberal Fort Collins is willing to pay more for buses to compliment their shiny BRT toy then conservative RTD, who would presumably be more willing to switch vendors or delay replacement of older buses. Additional theoretical examples of this concept in action would be the San Francisco Board of Directors signing off on an order at $800k for 40' buses with all the green bells and whistles, while CyRide pays the same price as RTD despite only ordering two articulated buses.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by Zmapper

Transfort's NABI buses were also far more expensive than RTD's order: $800k v. ~$630k. Lest it be thought this was due to bulk-purchasing, CyRide in Ames also bought artics from Nova Bus for the same price as RTD's New Flyer buses.

My completely hypothetical conjecture is the bus companies base their prices off of perceived willingness to pay: The presume that liberal Fort Collins is willing to pay more for buses to compliment their shiny BRT toy then conservative RTD, who would presumably be more willing to switch vendors or delay replacement of older buses. Additional theoretical examples of this concept in action would be the San Francisco Board of Directors signing off on an order at $800k for 40' buses with all the green bells and whistles, while CyRide pays the same price as RTD despite only ordering two articulated buses.

Something tells me the price difference has more to do with MAX/Transfort purchasing buses running on CNG while the other two articulated buses are diesel/electric hybrid.

[Zmapper]

True, and that would amount to some portion of the difference, but is a CNG vehicle really over $150k more?

[Wizened Variations]

Headline in Denver Post this morning "Survey turning wheels for RTD"

Classic publicity release* relating to a few comments on a national study on bicycle usage..

Part of RTD's well orchestrated campaign to bury people's frustrations about what RTD has built and how it operates. I am surprised (not really, just acting ) the story made the front page,

One interesting info blurb from page 12A, however.

Denver (not the metro area) has 2.3 percent of the city's commuters who use bicycles to commute to work.

Of course, as has been "discussed" before, the light rail and bus systems are NOT designed for bicycle usage by riders. Carrying bicycles boarding and exiting light rail cars via a four step stairway discourages many from taking their bikes on board, and, being able to put 1 or 2 bicycles on the front of a bus, or 4 or 5 stowed away on a Lodo to Boulder bound bus is certainly not "bicycle friendly."

A question to the Denver bicyclists: how many bicycles is the BRT to Boulder via US 36 supposed to carry? There are to be no storage bins on the buses, so, are the bicycles to be attached to the front of the bus?

*How do you convince users that what you are going to do despite their input is what the users want to do?

[bunt_q]

You're surprised that an article about the bicycle lobby feeling slighted (as usual) made the front page? That's comical.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're surprised that an article about the bicycle lobby feeling slighted (as usual) made the front page? That's comical.

Nope. Just have to point it out.

The "bicycle" bunch is a vocal, rather powerless bunch. But then again, most of us who have beliefs and express them, are powerless too.

With all the manure in our transportation scene, you have to know where not to step.

[bobg]

No one is feeling slighted. RTD sent out a survey and got honest opinions. Bike access to most stations/park and rides is horrendous. That's not usually RTD's fault but the cities in which those stations are located. Although RTD could do a better job coordinating bike access with those cities.

Bike parking at stations/park and rides is not secure (duh). RTD cannot even secure their car parking lots appropriately and it's a million times easier to steal a bike. They could offer better bike storage but RTD should be getting out of the parking game altogether for bike and car. IMO the city or organizations like BikeDenver should come up with and finance a solution (like Boulder County did in the article).

So yes there are things that can be improved, as always. The bigger cycling last mile issues are in the hand off between RTD and the city/county. It will require more communication/commitment between those entities to solve them.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by Zmapper

True, and that would amount to some portion of the difference, but is a CNG vehicle really over $150k more?

I'd also assume/hope some of that is extra bells and whistles for BRT.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

HA question to the Denver bicyclists: how many bicycles is the BRT to Boulder via US 36 supposed to carry? There are to be no storage bins on the buses, so, are the bicycles to be attached to the front of the bus?

US 36 will not use low-floor BRT-style buses, touring coaches with under-storage will be used along with front-racks as well. The granola-loving hippy/yuppies out of Boulder will have plenty of bike storage.

[Launch 12]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

US 36 will not use low-floor BRT-style buses, touring coaches with under-storage will be used along with front-racks as well. The granola-loving hippy/yuppies out of Boulder will have plenty of bike storage.

Example number 1143 or so of any and every reference to Boulder on this thread being negative. I will likely be reprimanded by this message as I have in the past for pointing this out.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Launch 12

Example number 1143 or so of any and every reference to Boulder on this thread being negative. I will likely be reprimanded by this message as I have in the past for pointing this out.

I think it's actually example number 6,987 of any mention of Boulder containing some kind of negativity. If you get butt-hurt over Boulder's stereotypical image of being uber-healthy, wealthy, and liberal than maybe work to dissuade it?

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

US 36 will not use low-floor BRT-style buses, touring coaches with under-storage will be used along with front-racks as well. The granola-loving hippy/yuppies out of Boulder will have plenty of bike storage.

But, the granola bunch won't use it: the young college student going to Boulder, and, the working poor will use the bikes.

The millennial workers might take the bus when they don't take their plug in cars, their fuel cell powered cars, or don't like carpooling with 2 other riders.

Without enough short walking distance connections from off US 36 located stations, riding the BRT will be another transportation pain in the *** for the financially challenged.