Winnipeg Construction VIII

[bomberjet]

Okay, put up 10 more single family houses. The large field with schools, playgrounds, baseball diamonds, hockey rinks, etc. a block away aren't enough for the community? Or do you propose putting some shops in there maybe? Or a park? There is an ugly Hydro substation across the street too. Maybe that should be redeveloped into a TOD highrise because it doesn't fit with the neighbourhood.

It would seem the end of a transitway is a good place for people to leave their cars and take the bus downtown or wherever they're going. This would increase ridership, which would make the cost of the transitway more palatable, which... Whatever, not getting into this again. Just a thought. Maybe put a park and ride somewhere else then and have buses run from there onto the transitway. Or do you think park and rides are a farce?

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by rypinion

I see this daily on the Free Press website for basically everything the city spends money on.



It appears MM thinks the current state of the Alexander Docks is hindering H2O sales. Does anyone agree? What would "repairing" the docks entail? What would people like to see done there?

I think a marina where you can rent a slip for the season would be popular. I'd love to live in the exchange and walk down to my boat for evening cruises or fishing trips. (not now, but in 15 yrs when kids are older). The Forks marina is not a marina, it's a place to park while having ice cream.

[esquire]

No one is going to build amazing TODs down at the end of the line right away... Downtown, Fort Rouge, even Fort Garry, maybe you can find developers to do that... but not Fort Richmond. Perhaps in 5 or 10 years time it might happen, though.

I see park and ride as a reasonable way to bank land until a suitable TOD proposal comes along... by that I mean mid-rise, mid-to-high density, not just two storey townhouses or whatever.

[rypinion]

Wouldn't a midrise development with x number of units be infinitely better than a park and ride with x number of spaces?

Especially down there, the demand for housing/apartments is high (being close to the U of M) - you'd think a small apartment or condo would work well, perhaps as part of a rapid transit station.

[tekgeek]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on Transit ways and Park n Ride discussion. I was born and raised in Winnipeg but moved to Ottawa for 9 years (now back in Winnipeg) and I have to say that Park n Ride's are hugely popular there.

If you have a system where you develop Park n Rides near the perimeter with feeders running to your rapid transit it is extremely efficient. Ottawa has PnR's East,South, and in communities West of the city. The lots where always full as most people from bedroom communities (myself included) would use the PnR which fed into the rapid transit lines to get downtown. With the cost of parking downtown and the ease of movement via the Transit way it was cheaper and faster to use.

I would hope something after that model (Ottawa) would be the end game for Winnipeg's development.

For what it is worth, I absolutely loved the transit system in Ottawa, and I feel Winnipeg could benefit from a similar style of BRT.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It would seem the end of a transitway is a good place for people to leave their cars and take the bus downtown or wherever they're going. This would increase ridership, which would make the cost of the transitway more palatable, which... Whatever, not getting into this again. Just a thought. Maybe put a park and ride somewhere else then and have buses run from there onto the transitway. Or do you think park and rides are a farce?

My method for building transportation infrastructure is to say: I don't care about cars, I want to move people. I think about people when I make suggestions, I don't think about cars. Sure, I think about the people in the cars, but I don't think about the cars.

Building park and ride is a good way for the City to take money away from everyone (people who walk, bike, take transit and drive cars) and give it to people who drive. That land is no longer viable for development and will be a park and ride forever (despite what equire says, if a parking lot gets built it will never become a low-rise). This is the stupidest planning decision that could be possible.

Park and rides are a useful method for Transit departments to inflat their ridership numbers without actually taking cars off the street. I posted this before, but I would not want to see a rapid transit station like the one outside my Uncle's place... Link to google maps.

Park and Rides will create more sprawl. I would rather people actually live near the RT stations.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rypinion

Wouldn't a midrise development with x number of units be infinitely better than a park and ride with x number of spaces?

Of course it would be, but who is prepared to build something like that right away? In the absence of any concrete plans for proper TOD developments, a park-and-ride is a reasonable way to engage in land banking on a temporary basis to keep room for TOD at these stations.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by tekgeek

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on Transit ways and Park n Ride discussion. I was born and raised in Winnipeg but moved to Ottawa for 9 years (now back in Winnipeg) and I have to say that Park n Ride's are hugely popular there.

If you have a system where you develop Park n Rides near the perimeter with feeders running to your rapid transit it is extremely efficient. Ottawa has PnR's East,South, and in communities West of the city. The lots where always full as most people from bedroom communities (myself included) would use the PnR which fed into the rapid transit lines to get downtown. With the cost of parking downtown and the ease of movement via the Transit way it was cheaper and faster to use.

I would hope something after that model (Ottawa) would be the end game for Winnipeg's development.

For what it is worth, I absolutely loved the transit system in Ottawa, and I feel Winnipeg could benefit from a similar style of BRT.

My uncle lives around a 5 minute walk from Fallowfield station -- like right behind the stripmall on the far side of Fallowfield. He would drive and do the Park and Ride... the logic behind this I never asked, but I assume because there was so much space to park, why wouldn't he?

[tekgeek]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

My uncle lives around a 5 minute walk from Fallowfield station -- like right behind the stripmall on the far side of Fallowfield. He would drive and do the Park and Ride... the logic behind this I never asked, but I assume because there was so much space to park, why wouldn't he?

My initial guess would be that the Fallowfield/Woodroffe intersection is an extremely busy/high traffic one. Might not feel comfortable crossing on foot and may feel safer just driving there .

The Fallowfield PnR is the one I also used. Ottawa Transit had an express bus pass for I believe was 15$ more than a regular pass. The express routes had significantly less stops. So using BRT and the Express buses I could get downtown quicker than waiting in traffic... I saved on average over 100$ per month based on parking price VS bus pass. Plus less mileage and gas usage in my car.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by tekgeek

My initial guess would be that the Fallowfield/Woodroffe intersection is an extremely busy/high traffic one. Might not feel comfortable crossing on foot and may feel safer just driving there .

The Fallowfield PnR is the one I also used. Ottawa Transit had an express bus pass for I believe was 15$ more than a regular pass. The express routes had significantly less stops. So using BRT and the Express buses I could get downtown quicker than waiting in traffic... I saved on average over 100$ per month based on parking price VS bus pass. Plus less mileage and gas usage in my car.

I'm not saying it wasn't well used... I loved the rapid transit station, I loved almost everything about their BRT situation. It was faster than driving, it was on par with driving cost-wise, and it went directly into the Downtown in corridors not connected to regular traffic.

What I dislike is the huge waste of space around the station... Imagine if they build medium density housing around there, and used the tax money they generated to build a pedestrian overpass over Fallowfield.

Marketplace Station was even worse -- it was in the heart of Barrhaven, but it was surrounded by even more parking.

[tekgeek]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

I'm not saying it wasn't well used... I loved the rapid transit station, I loved almost everything about their BRT situation. It was faster than driving, it was on par with driving cost-wise, and it went directly into the Downtown in corridors not connected to regular traffic.

What I dislike is the huge waste of space around the station... Imagine if they build medium density housing around there, and used the tax money they generated to build a pedestrian overpass over Fallowfield.

Marketplace Station was even worse -- it was in the heart of Barrhaven, but it was surrounded by even more parking.

Keep in mind thought that the Fallowfield Park n Ride specifically was located in the Ottawa Green belt. Development of the green belt is regulated by the NCC which basically means zero development will occur in those fields. If you look at a map of Ottawa the Green belt clearly separates development between old Ottawa and all the newer areas Kanata/Barrhaven/Orleans/etc..).

As for the Marketplace station, I am not familiar with that one.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by tekgeek

Keep in mind thought that the Fallowfield Park n Ride specifically was located in the Ottawa Green belt. Development of the green belt is regulated by the NCC which basically means zero development will occur in those fields. If you look at a map of Ottawa the Green belt clearly separates development between old Ottawa and all the newer areas Kanata/Barrhaven/Orleans/etc..).

As for the Marketplace station, I am not familiar with that one.

Sorry for all the off topic -- it's a few stops up the line from Fallowfield toward Barrhaven Centre. And I understand the green belt concept; my uncle and I talked about it a fair bit while I was there... Here it is on Google Maps, in the centre of what I would equate to Kenaston Commons type area.

[tekgeek]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Sorry for all the off topic -- it's a few stops up the line from Fallowfield toward Barrhaven Centre. And I understand the green belt concept; my uncle and I talked about it a fair bit while I was there... Here it is on Google Maps, in the centre of what I would equate to Kenaston Commons type area.

Okay got it now! Yes that is the suburban sprawl at it's best with far too much wasted space for concrete parking lots. The denser development tends to be inside the greenbelt.

Sorry also for the off topic.

Back to my original 2 cents. Would love to see PnR/BRT type transit here in Winnipeg as it is highly effective. You will also see in Ottawa that there has been a lot of high rise/densification built up along the transit-way in many parts of Ottawa. I would hope some of that development could translate to Winnipeg as well once a full BRT line has been developed.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by esquire

Of course it would be, but who is prepared to build something like that right away? In the absence of any concrete plans for proper TOD developments, a park-and-ride is a reasonable way to engage in land banking on a temporary basis to keep room for TOD at these stations.

South Pembina and Bison Drive are getting a new 4 - 6 storey condo or apartment building every few months it seems...

http://www.mococondos.ca/
http://www.bisonpointe.com/
http://karmaproperties.ca/properties/mosaic-condos

Are a few examples. I'm sure there'd be demand for that lot if it was made available, especially if it was right on a bus stop leading to the U of M (and downtown).

[bomberjet]

There's a small RT split station right there. That's why I thought the point about a park and ride would be great there. I wonder how the residents would feel if an apartment went up right there. Even a small 3 storey one.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by rypinion

I see this daily on the Free Press website for basically everything the city spends money on.



It appears MM thinks the current state of the Alexander Docks is hindering H2O sales. Does anyone agree? What would "repairing" the docks entail? What would people like to see done there?

The Alexander Docks were completely rebuilt a few (5-7?) years ago. The process happened over two years, half the structure was replaced one year, the other half the next. The work was done by Subterranean.

There is nothing wrong with the Alexander Dock.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

The Alexander Docks were completely rebuilt a few (5-7?) years ago. The process happened over two years, half the structure was replaced one year, the other half the next. The work was done by Subterranean.

There is nothing wrong with the Alexander Dock.

They just need to make it pretty.

[bomberjet]

I'm thinking they mean it's an ugly, gravel, weedy, garbage dumpy looking place. Which I agree with. Not the physical condition of the actual dock. Is it hindering sales, I don't know.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I think a marina where you can rent a slip for the season would be popular. I'd love to live in the exchange and walk down to my boat for evening cruises or fishing trips. (not now, but in 15 yrs when kids are older). The Forks marina is not a marina, it's a place to park while having ice cream.

Not going to happen, the economics just don't work. The two existing marina/boatyards in the city are run as volunteer organizations using all free labour, and even so their operations are tenuous at best. Plus the security needed downtown would be quite expensive.

This, along with huge and unpredictable variations in river levels make marina operations very difficult.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

They just need to make it pretty.

I see what you mean but the fact remains that it is really an industrial site meant for commercial marine operations. If the nearby businesses and residents want the site prettied up there is nothing stopping them from doing so.