[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was actually a lively debate about the convention centre siting in this thread.. back in 2008.



I agree with this. These two blocks were terrible prior to this development. Even the lower block with the Herald building was ugly and fit in poorly with the rest of Argyle Street. Most of the ground floor of the Herald was blank walls. The building itself was not a loss and the Nova Centre looks like it will be a dramatic improvement, even if it's not without its own flaws or compromises.

Totally. And wasn't much of the lot across from different bars on Argyle just a big, empty, ugly parking lot?

[hokus83]

My hugest pet peeve about the design is that it fit in very poorly with the surrounding area, I wish it had a bit more color to it like the Montreal convention center. Argyle and the area around it has so much character to it that I feel this needs a bit more colourful feel to it, that boat has probably already sailed on the design aspect, I really wish the first 3 or 4 floors had something a little more interesting at street level than walls of clear glass

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hokus83

My hugest pet peeve about the design is that it fit in very poorly with the surrounding area, I wish it had a bit more color to it like the Montreal convention center. Argyle and the area around it has so much character to it that I feel this needs a bit more colourful feel to it, that boat has probably already sailed on the design aspect[/IMG]

I bet design elements like the colours of the building or style of the art installations could still be changed.

I agree that the colours come off a bit bland in the renderings. The ballroom will have some bright blue spandrel and the rest will be grey (spandrel or stone at ground level) or clear.

Hopefully the public art will be interesting.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Totally. And wasn't much of the lot across from different bars on Argyle just a big, empty, ugly parking lot?

Before Rank acquired the lots the Herald building covered the entirety of the lower block and the Midtown was on the northeast corner of the upper block. I've seen photos from the 70's and 80's of other small buildings on the upper block but I think they were torn down 15+ years ago (there used to be similar small buildings where the MetroPark is today, and the TexPark was on the United Gulf site).

Around 2006 or so there was a proposal for the Midtown site that would have covered maybe 1/3-1/4 of the north end of that block, but it wasn't approved:


Source

In retrospect it's kind of ironic because the same STV crowd that shot this one down paved the way for the much larger Nova Centre project on this site. Back when the Midtown was proposed it registered as a major, high-quality project in Halifax; back then I never would have expected something like the Nova Centre to be proposed a few years later.

[hokus83]

Originally Posted by someone123

Before Rank acquired the lots the Herald building covered the entirety of the lower block and the Midtown was on the northeast corner of the upper block. I've seen photos from the 70's and 80's of other small buildings on the upper block but I think they were torn down 15+ years ago (there used to be similar small buildings where the MetroPark is today, and the TexPark was on the United Gulf site).

Around 2006 or so there was a proposal for the Midtown site that would have covered maybe 1/3-1/4 of the north end of that block, but it wasn't approved:


Source

This is the kind of thing I would love to see on Market street and fill one of the vacant lots on both Market and Prince and Market and Sackville. I really think this its going to be important to fill those holes with something once the Nova Centre is built and hopefully a proposal and approval of a midrise at each corner would wouldn't be such of a issue now that we have this being built.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

Before Rank acquired the lots the Herald building covered the entirety of the lower block and the Midtown was on the northeast corner of the upper block. I've seen photos from the 70's and 80's of other small buildings on the upper block but I think they were torn down 15+ years ago (there used to be similar small buildings where the MetroPark is today, and the TexPark was on the United Gulf site).

Around 2006 or so there was a proposal for the Midtown site that would have covered maybe 1/3-1/4 of the north end of that block, but it wasn't approved:


Source

In retrospect it's kind of ironic because the same STV crowd that shot this one down paved the way for the much larger Nova Centre project on this site. Back when the Midtown was proposed it registered as a major, high-quality project in Halifax; back then I never would have expected something like the Nova Centre to be proposed a few years later.

Street level design could be much better, but not bad at all.

I'd love to see a consultant or economist crunch some numbers and try to estimate how many great developments and economic benefits / development has been lost over the years, caused by the STVers and all the great proposals these conniving jerks have killed over the years.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Street level design could be much better, but not bad at all.

I'd love to see a consultant or economist crunch some numbers and try to estimate how many great developments and economic benefits / development has been lost over the years, caused by the STVers and all the great proposals these conniving jerks have killed over the years.

Far better to assess the massive and ongoing subsidies to the industrial parks, most of which have very little industry and huge amounts of retail. Land which was sold well below the cost of staff, whose sole job was promoting and selling the areas, and not to forget the cost of surveys, rock breaking, levelling of lots,streets, sewer, water, sidewalks, and maintenance of property which belonged to the province.
The original development of Burnside was a private sector effort but once Dartmouth decided to become a developer the private Commodore Commercial Estates could not compete with taxpayer subsidised development primarily designed to steal businesses from Halifax.

The land that is now Dartmouth Crossing was owned by the Whebby family and Dartmouth made sure that the property was never within the development boundary citing the lack of water and sewer capacity.
The office tower boom of 30+ years ago was aided by the stubborness of Premier Peckford of Newfoundland and the resultant move of oil rigs and offices to Halifax which brought lots of activity and many dry holes, an expanding federal and provincial civil service also helped developers as governments willingly became anchor tenants on long term leases and the landlord then offered better rates to tenants who needed less space.
Queens Square in downtown Dartmouth was a high rise flop for many years until the federal government took some office space and the province also took space.
With federal downsizing and cost cutting, a deeply indebted province, and more cost conscience lawyers and accountants the glory days of big tenants anchoring new developments may be gone. And the HECC approving five 5 storey office towers against the advice of the Downtown Dartmouth Business Commission a shift of office space out of the center may increase.
The Turner report on office space demand of several years ago was so realistic and uncomfortable for HRM staff that they delayed tabling it at council and stamped every page 'DRAFT' and then it disappeared from all discussion at city hall.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Far better to assess the massive and ongoing subsidies to the industrial parks, most of which have very little industry and huge amounts of retail. Land which was sold well below the cost of staff, whose sole job was promoting and selling the areas, and not to forget the cost of surveys, rock breaking, levelling of lots,streets, sewer, water, sidewalks, and maintenance of property which belonged to the province.
The original development of Burnside was a private sector effort but once Dartmouth decided to become a developer the private Commodore Commercial Estates could not compete with taxpayer subsidised development primarily designed to steal businesses from Halifax.

The land that is now Dartmouth Crossing was owned by the Whebby family and Dartmouth made sure that the property was never within the development boundary citing the lack of water and sewer capacity.
The office tower boom of 30+ years ago was aided by the stubborness of Premier Peckford of Newfoundland and the resultant move of oil rigs and offices to Halifax which brought lots of activity and many dry holes, an expanding federal and provincial civil service also helped developers as governments willingly became anchor tenants on long term leases and the landlord then offered better rates to tenants who needed less space.
Queens Square in downtown Dartmouth was a high rise flop for many years until the federal government took some office space and the province also took space.
With federal downsizing and cost cutting, a deeply indebted province, and more cost conscience lawyers and accountants the glory days of big tenants anchoring new developments may be gone. And the HECC approving five 5 storey office towers against the advice of the Downtown Dartmouth Business Commission a shift of office space out of the center may increase.
The Turner report on office space demand of several years ago was so realistic and uncomfortable for HRM staff that they delayed tabling it at council and stamped every page 'DRAFT' and then it disappeared from all discussion at city hall.

You don't have to say so twice. I'd be on board with that as well.

We all know about these events, how things happened, from a macro level. But what I want to know, is who was driving these changes? Was it just lazy HRM staff with little direction? Or something more sinister?

Why would the Turner Report be so "uncomfortable" for HRM staff? It showed they were complicit in killing office occupancy downtown?

I suppose one benefit of amalgamation is that it ended this sort of douchebag development policy, with different sprawl communities selling off their lands in the middle of nowhere, for cheap, to suck business out of the downtown core. A veritable race to the bottom for increasingly shrinking dollars, as land was sold cheaper and cheaper.

[fenwick16]

Many thanks to Ziobrop for all the construction pictures of the Nova Centre. I find it fascinating to see how the car ramps are being constructed. I am looking forwarded to seeing your ongoing Roy Building demolition and construction pictures.

(source: Ziobrop - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/ )

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Many thanks to Ziobrop for all the construction pictures of the Nova Centre. I find it fascinating to see how the car ramps are being constructed. I am looking forwarded to seeing your ongoing Roy Building demolition and construction pictures.

Thanks,
Have you also Seen this One - Progress on 1592 Barrington http://cdplus.tumblr.com/

[halifaxboyns]

The live video feed is not working; but I'm listening to the audio while I clear a whole bunch of things at work.
The first speaker...riot. You'd think the world would end if we approved Nova Centre. Good for council to sticking to the process and calling people out for not sticking to the topic.

[halifaxboyns]

As I feared - the speakers are not sticking to topic. It's going from talking about fire and brimstone; the 3 level of government contributions to the titanic.

[DigitalNinja]

Are they just having the discussion tonight? Or are they going to vote on the amendments?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

The live video feed is not working; but I'm listening to the audio while I clear a whole bunch of things at work.
The first speaker...riot. You'd think the world would end if we approved Nova Centre. Good for council to sticking to the process and calling people out for not sticking to the topic.

It's the usual STV / Heritage Trust People (they're the same group). They basically said the Nova Centre would lead to:

* Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling.
* Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
* The dead rising from the grave.
* Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.

A few developers like Ghosn and Chedrawe voiced moderate support.

And then a couple random people who gave a few thoughts, for and against.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

It's the usual STV / Heritage Trust People (they're the same group). They basically said the Nova Centre would lead to:

* Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling.
* Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
* The dead rising from the grave.
* Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.

A few developers like Ghosn and Chedrawe voiced moderate support.

And then a couple random people who gave a few thoughts, for and against.

Oh, so it's just a normal public hearing about any development taller than 2 floors downtown. Gotcha.

[halifaxboyns]

Approved. Watts was the only vote against. Still some concerns about closing Grafton but time to move on.

[Keith P.]

I'm not sure Watts has ever voted in favor of any development. Seriously.

[Jstaleness]

I can't think of any Keith.

[Empire]

None of the negative nellies mentioned what a blight Grafton St. was for 35 years on downtown. How can a vibrant Convention Centre be worse than the weed infested abandoned lot that sat beside the Midtown for so long? What would infuse more life to the street? I didn't hear any suggestions.

Blight on downtown gone with the negative nellies:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.646071,-6...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNTeQjPkFOnFAEjDGQ85kPQ!2e0

[teddifax]

Here, here!!! That picture was a great reminder to the turn-around going on with this development.