PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I wouldn't hold my breath, domodeez.

(1) For the section alongside Schuylkill between Chestnut and Walnut, that's Amtrak air rights. Developing that parcel will undoubtedly be quite expensive; you've got an active train line down below. Look at Manhattan West for an example of what would have to be done.

(2) While I agree Schuylkill Avenue needs to be fixed, the reality is doing so would be a complex project that would involve a complete restructuring of traffic patterns between it and the Expressway. I'd also argue that the upper deck would need to be an extended frontage road for the Expressway in terms of traffic function in addition to its urban functions, and that it would need to run, at minimum, from South to Arch, and preferably up to Spring Garden with a direct connection into West River Drive.

But of course nobody is really looking at fixing this snarl at all, much less holistically.

I'm not talking about developing over the Amtrak railway gap between Walnut and Chestnut. I agree that is highly unlikely to be capped in the near future, let alone developed. There is/was a smaller gap between Chestnut and Market that is being capped as we speak. Studio Bryan Hanes is the firm that will be sprucing up the new space that will replace it.

I disagree that Schuylkill Ave between Walnut and Market *needs* to involve a complicated solution. Perhaps a long-term solution would/should be more comprehensive and therefore more complex, but I'm talking about an immediate solution - removing the medians, repainting the lines, and widening the eastern sidewalk. Same capacity, same use, just consolidated a bit to calm traffic and improve pedestrian safety, which is needed because this area is quickly seeing more pedestrian activity & that trend will only continue.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by domodeez

I'm not talking about developing over the Amtrak railway gap between Walnut and Chestnut. I agree that is highly unlikely to be capped in the near future, let alone developed. There is/was a smaller gap between Chestnut and Market that is being capped as we speak. Studio Bryan Hanes is the firm that will be sprucing up the new space that will replace it.

I disagree that Schuylkill Ave between Walnut and Market *needs* to involve a complicated solution. Perhaps a long-term solution would/should be more comprehensive and therefore more complex, but I'm talking about an immediate solution - removing the medians, repainting the lines, and widening the eastern sidewalk. Same capacity, same use, just consolidated a bit to calm traffic and improve pedestrian safety, which is needed because this area is quickly seeing more pedestrian activity & that trend will only continue.

What about instead of removing the medians, just make them green? Repave the entire stretch from Market to Walnut and plant shrubs, trees and flowers.

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by summersm343

What about instead of removing the medians, just make them green? Repave the entire stretch from Market to Walnut and plant shrubs, trees and flowers.

At a minimum, the lanes need to be repainted. Badly. I'm not necessarily against the idea of greening the wide median closest to Walnut with planters, at least as the most immediate solution. But the problem with doing that is that it does nothing to calm traffic or increase the capacity for pedestrian use. It would be purely cosmetic. Even if there was a bench or table there, I can't imagine anyone would want to spend time on that median, sandwiched between 4 lanes of aggressive driving. Sitting on the east sidewalk, however, would be nice because of river views and the buffer that parked cars provide. So to me expanding the east sidewalk and greening that area instead would be a thousand times better and still would not be cost-prohibitive.

[shadowbat2]

Originally Posted by domodeez

Two great things happening around the IRS building near 30th:

The cap is going in on the east side of the building along Schuylkill Ave. (now if only the gap east of FMC/Evo would be capped too...) There is some marble waiting to be installed, though I don't know exactly what for.

Thanks for showing that! A while back I saw new piers being built under there but I had no idea what for....

[ichigo]

Originally Posted by josef

15th & Walnut this morning.

what is going in this place? I've somehow missed it

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by ichigo

what is going in this place? I've somehow missed it

Three story retail complex. So far only the Cheesecake Factory has been confirmed for the second floor.



http://www.phillymag.com/foobooz/2014/04/28/demolition-begins-cheesecake-factory-site/

[PhiLaw]

Well that was quick:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/ho...America_to_end_Philadelphia_flights.html

[PhiLaw]

Boardwalk at Pier 53 Approved, pending ecological prereqs:

http://www.passyunkpost.com/2014/04/24/p...s-granted-for-construction-of-boardwalk/

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by domodeez

At a minimum, the lanes need to be repainted. Badly. I'm not necessarily against the idea of greening the wide median closest to Walnut with planters, at least as the most immediate solution. But the problem with doing that is that it does nothing to calm traffic or increase the capacity for pedestrian use. It would be purely cosmetic. Even if there was a bench or table there, I can't imagine anyone would want to spend time on that median, sandwiched between 4 lanes of aggressive driving. Sitting on the east sidewalk, however, would be nice because of river views and the buffer that parked cars provide. So to me expanding the east sidewalk and greening that area instead would be a thousand times better and still would not be cost-prohibitive.

I think there could be a way to calm traffic, and make it more pleasant aesthetically for the pedestrians (and drivers along this desolate, harsh stretch).

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

[Phil_North]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I think there could be a way to calm traffic, and make it more pleasant aesthetically for the pedestrians (and drivers along this desolate, harsh stretch).

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

That is a stark contrast. The road in Chicago is beautiful!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I think there could be a way to calm traffic, and make it more pleasant aesthetically for the pedestrians (and drivers along this desolate, harsh stretch).

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

That is exactly what I am talking about! Thank you Londonee! That's how Schuylkill Ave needs to be redone.

[CypressClinton]

I like the Chicago median but its alittle misguided to say that the same thing could be done in Philly with the same results. Philly has to deal with the railroad tracks, I76 off ramps and lack of a historical sense of place. Things Chicago did not have to deal with in that location.

BTW I am against any solution that extends Schuylkill Ave north or south. It would just add to the traffic in the area. Induced demand style.

[McBane]

Thanks for posting that awful comparison between PHL and CHI! In all seriousness, I see where Domo is going and I agree. Rather than have a spruced up median, a better alternative would be to dig it up, shift the lanes over, and use the extra space to widen the sidewalk and add some greenery there.

For what it's worth, I've always thought something like that Chicago example would be perfect for the west end of Market and/or JFK (River to about 20th). Those stretches of Market and JFK do not need that many lanes for cars. You can usually cross mid-street without seeing a car.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by McBane

For what it's worth, I've always thought something like that Chicago example would be perfect for the west end of Market and/or JFK (River to about 20th). Those stretches of Market and JFK do not need that many lanes for cars. You can usually cross mid-street without seeing a car.

JFK? Yes, Market? I disagree entirely. I was just at 23rd and Market this morning and it can get pretty hectic around rush hour.

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by McBane

For what it's worth, I've always thought something like that Chicago example would be perfect for the west end of Market and/or JFK (River to about 20th). Those stretches of Market and JFK do not need that many lanes for cars. You can usually cross mid-street without seeing a car.

Speaking of something similar, anyone have any idea why this plan never got any traction? The pilot was, both from what I saw and heard, a 100% success (as anyone who has ever driven, walked, or biked on either of those super-sized streets could have predicted). I know $$ was the issue, but it's completely dropped off the radar.



http://www.uwishunu.com/2011/10/pilot-pl...-without-impacting-vehicle-traffic-flow/

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by Londonee

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

Ok , the cost prohibitive factor ( may ) be part of the problem . However , if one can make the city more appealing , where ever and when ever it can , then the
Chicago plan makes the Philly plan look like no plan at all . IF it ever makes the priority list , the Chicago plan wins ..... hands down . IMO .

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I think there could be a way to calm traffic, and make it more pleasant aesthetically for the pedestrians (and drivers along this desolate, harsh stretch).

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

Yep. That's what I have in mind, except the barrier would be removed and the east sidewalk would be expanded to host these improvements.

And it's not that Phila doesn't do this type of thing, we just got a late start. University City District is the best in the city at this type of placemaking, and this location falls perfectly within their jurisdiction

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

Speaking of something similar, anyone have any idea why this plan never got any traction? The pilot was, both from what I saw and heard, a 100% success (as anyone who has ever driven, walked, or biked on either of those super-sized streets could have predicted). I know $$ was the issue, but it's completely dropped off the radar.



http://www.uwishunu.com/2011/10/pilot-pl...-without-impacting-vehicle-traffic-flow/

This is getting ready to move forward on JFK relatively soon. I'll get more info for you.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by Londonee

This is how Philly handles it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.951852,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIYOnxZGIAiEB5cUW4z6jSA!2e0

And how Chicago would handle it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.88648,-8...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMK6mPoz77I8NmLLSZ6lGnw!2e0

WOW! Captain Hyperbole, here. Talk about cherry picking. One is in the middle of a CBD the other is sandwiched between between a river and a highway.

If you were talking parts of Market or Broad I would understand but to think Philadelphia doesn't do this thing is ridiculous. Columbus BLVD and west Spring Garden are two that pop up for me.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by relnahe

WOW! Captain Hyperbole, here. Talk about cherry picking. One is in the middle of a CBD the other is sandwiched between between a river and a highway.

If you were talking parts of Market or Broad I would understand but to think Philadelphia doesn't do this thing is ridiculous. Columbus BLVD and west Spring Garden are two that pop up for me.

I agree with Londonee's example of how to make the area more pleasant but to make the point that one is typical Philadelphia and the other is typical Chicago is where they went too far.

Here's a more appropriate Chicago Street comparison:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.884339,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjTGF7K8MDbzkPq-jI5T8yw!2e0