Edmonton Construction 12 (December 2013)

[240glt]

Maybe the primary beneficiaries.. Qualico, the GoA and Strategic Group should be asked to fund the pedway.

Still way too many unanswered questions and lack of clarity on this project.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Maybe the primary beneficiaries.. Qualico, the GoA and Strategic Group should be asked to fund the pedway.

Still way too many unanswered questions and lack of clarity on this project.

we have been asked to fund a portion of the pedway and the answer was yes. and that's in addition to the 45 million in construction and development costs we are contributing to the overall galleria development and construction costs.

[Gary1]

For sure Qualico should pay as they are going to be reaping the most benefit . I think it is also good to have everything in writing to protect the tax payer. That being said, I do hope it goes forward as it is good for the downtown.

[Mikemike]

The city can fund the pedway up to the north side of 104ave now, to connect to the museum, and the rest can be funded later after all the other peices of the Galleria are in place. The cost should be nothing even close to 30M, and long term while there's an expense, there is very little risk. Whether the Galleria goes ahead or not, there is little chance that it won't be well used or that it won't pay long-term dividends. It's a better connection to the museum, and will be a major benefit (read: value increaser and tax increaser) for landowners north of 104ave.

maybe the 4.4M can get the pedway across 104ave, and the rest can be figured out after.

[MalcolmTucker]

It is hard on here for most of us, since we can't say what we know and how we know it, except to support our conclusions from that knowledge with what is currently available to the general public.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Maybe the primary beneficiaries.. Qualico, the GoA and Strategic Group should be asked to fund the pedway.

Still way too many unanswered questions and lack of clarity on this project.

to pick up on my last post, just because you are not party to the answers and the media is not reporting the answers does not mean that there are still way too many unanswered questions.

and just because you are not party to everything does not mean that the project lacks clarity. you are entitled to feel that it lacks clarity for you but that is not the same thing.

[SHOFEAR]

Got notice from the city yesterday that A chocolate store is moving into where bubble buzz is on 104. Should be a great retail addition to the area.

Also, sounds like another organic grocery is taking the old Pangea space. Hopefully they do it right this time....I'd love to be able to avoid sobeys.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

The Province has a relationship with the University not the Galleria project or City on this matter. Are you suggesting that the Province should write to the City authorizing the University...to do what? ... make a business decision that the arms length and unquestionably competent UofA Board of Governors is mandated by Act to do? Obviously you do not understand the role of governance of arms length organizations...and in particular the UofA. I suppose if the Province wants to meddle it could take over the entire Post Secondary Education system like in a communist country and run it the way it runs Alberta Health and its extended meddling in math instruction. Maybe Minster Johnson is power hungry enough to provide lessons to the PC caucus on the benefits of Chinese central planning...tomorrow it will be instructions to famers on how to increase wheat production. Let me know when the Province chimes in and satisfies your or the City's request for written authorization.

I don't know why you're so passionate about this topic. But anyways, the Province needs to be on board before the City commits. Plain and simple.

And yes, if the UofA wants a building, you can bet they will need the Province's support. The Honourable said it himself…
"And there's obviously discussions about the university being there and if the university builds a building, they would get the money from us,"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/g...after-council-funding-decision-1.2611997

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Got notice from the city yesterday that A chocolate store is moving into where bubble buzz is on 104. Should be a great retail addition to the area.

Also, sounds like another organic grocery is taking the old Pangea space. Hopefully they do it right this time....I'd love to be able to avoid sobeys.

The organic grocery is the second location of Earth's General Store, from what I've been hearing.

[rapid_business]

Maybe EdmTrekker is involved in this?

[Coldrsx]

Shanghai is fricken amazing... photos to follow next week.

Off to Pudong and the 100th floor of the WFC shortly.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by cdnklc

to pick up on my last post, just because you are not party to the answers and the media is not reporting the answers does not mean that there are still way too many unanswered questions.

and just because you are not party to everything does not mean that the project lacks clarity. you are entitled to feel that it lacks clarity for you but that is not the same thing.

Ken, that doesn't make any sense at all

Perhaps your vested interest in the project is clouding your judgement

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by rapid_business

Maybe EdmTrekker is involved in this?

I am not involved in the organic food store in case anyone is not following the whole thread.

Many people are involved in the Galleria project in many roles...

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by cdnklc
to pick up on my last post, just because you are not party to the answers and the media is not reporting the answers does not mean that there are still way too many unanswered questions.

and just because you are not party to everything does not mean that the project lacks clarity. you are entitled to feel that it lacks clarity for you but that is not the same thing.

Originally Posted by 240glt

Ken, that doesn't make any sense at all

Perhaps your vested interest in the project is clouding your judgement

i thought it was pretty clear. all of the answers to all of the questions are not in the public forum. that doesn't mean the answers don't exist or that they don't provide more clarity to the project than you are prepared to acknowledge as possible without their being disclosed to you. you are entitled to feel that way. i'm unclear as to how that doesn't make sense or to how any vested interest you think i may have might affect that.

as for clouded judgement, perhaps your insistence that there is "too much suckling at the public trough without enough transparency and clarity" under every rock - with or without any substantiation - is clouding yours?

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Shanghai is fricken amazing... photos to follow next week.

Off to Pudong and the 100th floor of the WFC shortly.

I don't know if I would call Shanghai "amazing." I've been there over 20 times, and although it has some impressive skyscrapers and architecture, it also has a lot of serious problems.

The aqi (air quality index) that measures pollution is consistently four to five times above the upper range of what the WHO considers acceptable air quality. Traffic is nightmarish at the best of times and the city is incredibly crowed and congested. Rich people and young university types probably have the time of their lives in Shanghai, but for the average person it is probably a tough place to live.

Then of course the corruption that is endemic in Chinese life, and huge projects being approved with little or no consideration for average people, who are often forced to sell their homes at bargain prices and moved, sometimes forcibly, so that rich government-connected property developers can build grandiose projects. I saw a small neighbourhood slowly choked to death by the government in order to passively evict its citizens to make way for large scale modern developments. They did this by stopping rubbish collection, not maintaining infrastructure, and reducing access in and out of the neighborhood. Actually, it is amazing that this is allowed to happen.

Link below to aqi website that shows pollution levels in cities around world:

http://aqicn.org/city/all/

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Staples: Businessman Irv Kipnes battles hard to save Galleria project
It’s a great concept, but will the private investment be there to make it go?

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmo...html?cid=dlvr.it-twitter-edmontonjournal

Can the Galleria megaproject in downtown Edmonton be saved?

Don’t count out businessman and philanthropist Irv Kipnes, the project’s champion. Kipnes isn’t going to give up on this $1 billion downtown arts and university campus.

Even more crucial, however, is for Kipnes to find a major tenant for the Galleria’s cornerstone, a planned 38-plus storey office tower. Rent from that office tower, as well as rent from the Galleria’s other office and commercial space, will help pay off the foundation’s loan for the massive build out. Excess profits will also subsidize Galleria arts groups and other downtown Edmonton arts groups. Kipnes hopes to collect $300 million over 30 years to pay for the four theatres and for arts group grants.

“It’s a good deal,” he says. “It’s patterned after the Pittsburgh cultural trust. I don’t know if there’s ever an original thought in the world except to copy whatever is good. But the model works there, it works in Cleveland, it works in a whole bunch of other places where real estate supports the arts.”

That’s the vision, the enticing $300 million promise. It’s why so many people are excited by the Galleria project. It represent a game-changing concept in arts funding here.

Stantec is looking for the right spot for a head office, and the buzz in downtown business circles is that the Katz Group and WAM developers are keen to have Stantec in a major office tower in the arena district, but Kipnes is battling hard to have Stantec as the anchor for the Galleria’s tower.

What will Stantec do? “No news for you yet,” says Keith Shillington, Stantec’s senior vice-president, adding that the company is still working through various submissions.

[Black Star]

http://youtu.be/krD4hdGvGHM

[MalcolmTucker]

So the cost of the Galleria to the U of A:
http://www.governance.ualberta.ca/Genera...ng-Material/Item-5-UAlberta-CIP-2014.pdf

The Galleria Project (E-DACC): This proposed project continues to progress and we look forward to government's commitment. Proposed new infrastructure for the departments of Music, and Art and Design, in the Faculty of Arts would satisfy their space program requirements. This downtown revitalization project could also address space needs within the School of Business. The Galleria is an innovative collaboration of private philanthropy, corporate investment and public funding involving all orders of government.

the university has identified the following one-time capital funding requirements:
...
Edmonton Downtown Arts Campus ($30M/year operating lease: Lease term of 30 Years)

$900 million dollars.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

So the cost of the Galleria to the U of A:
http://www.governance.ualberta.ca/Genera...ng-Material/Item-5-UAlberta-CIP-2014.pdf


$900 million dollars.

Minus the up front capital cost of constructing the same space on campus - which would have to be cash up front for all of the design and construction costs - and which would still incur the same level of operating expenses on top of that over the next 30 years. it's not 900 million over 30 years or nothing. it's probably 900 million - or more - either way and a question of where it is better spent both for the university and for the city.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by Spliff

I don't know if I would call Shanghai "amazing." I've been there over 20 times, and although it has some impressive skyscrapers and architecture, it also has a lot of serious problems.

I have never been to Shanghai.

But Beijing and Macau are truly awful, awful places. Absolutely filthy and disgusting in every sense of the word. And the people (all shoulder-to-shoulder) in both places are the rudest, pushiest people I've ever seen. I've only ever been spit on by strangers (that's what they do if you get in their way) in China. I saw someone get hit by a car on a busy road, the driver got out and drag him off to the side of the road, and everyone just went on with their day. There is zero consideration for other people there. After seeing how pleasant people are in Japan and Korea, China was a shock and a half.

China is the only place I have ever been that I have nothing nice to say about. Everything about it horrified me. Maybe Shanghai is different, but I'm never going to bother going back to that country.