AUSTIN | Project Updates Thread Part II

[Syndic]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Agreed. I don't think it's meant to replace Rainey, it's just being compared to it. And I think the reporter is the one who made the comparison, not the owners.

And it's funny that you say South Austin is foreign to you. I feel the same way about North Austin.

That goes to show how different the perspectives on the city council under this 10-1 plan will be. I look forward to it. I think it's going to be quite a spectacle. The good thing is that we all have downtown in common.

I wouldn't mind living in South Austin for a while, just to see what it's like. But most of Austin is north, so I think I'd just feel far away from everything. I work near the intersection of 183 and Cameron Rd. so it's not really practical for me right now.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

It's already one of the busiest bars in Austin. More are coming. And there is a nice food trailer park.

By alcohol sales, number 1 or 2 is top golf at the domain, moon tower isn't even in the top 10. That doesn't mean the Domain is "the next Rainey".

That's not to say its a bad place, I've been there once, with a friend who lives in the area. And it's good that the people in that area have a place. But the feel and vibe are as far from Rainey as you can get. People aren't going to be bar-hopping from one 10 acre bar to another, down a highway with no sidewalks(if I recall correctly).

[lzppjb]

There is no highway anywhere near the area.

And...

The bar that started it all in this area of South Austin is called Moontower Saloon, and even though it’s been open less than two years, it is consistently one of the top 10 highest sellers of alcohol in Austin, according to numbers released by the Texas Comptroller’s Office and the TABC.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by Syndic

As someone who lives in "Way North Austin", this is practically in a completely different city than me. As a lifelong North Austinite, Way South Austin is strange and foreign to me. I seems like the neglected and forgotten part of Austin where no one ever goes. But this looks cool.

Back when I lived in North Austin, I felt the same way. I rarely ever went south and it seemed like another city, a less affluent one.

Now that I live in South Austin, I must admit I was wrong and now I feel that way about the North. It seems like nothing ever happens there, it's sterile and non-Austin like, none of the good restaurants are there, etc. And I can't imagine not being able to enjoy the constant cool views of the skyline from the south (which are by far the best). I mean, do people from North Austin even know what the skyline looks like? They really are missing out.

Only somewhat kidding

Originally Posted by Syndic

That goes to show how different the perspectives on the city council under this 10-1 plan will be. I look forward to it. I think it's going to be quite a spectacle. The good thing is that we all have downtown in common.

Ugh, I'm dreading this. You think a couple of liberal NIMBYs are bad, just imagine a bunch of conservative ones. Forget additional bicycle improvements, pedestrian improvements, or any expensive downtown projects. The new setup will waste just as much or more of our money, but we won't enjoy any downtown improvements because of it. Enjoy the last few months of pre-10-1 Austin, I have a feeling it's going to start sucking big time soon.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by hookem

Back when I lived in North Austin, I felt the same way. I rarely ever went south and it seemed like another city, a less affluent one.

Now that I live in South Austin, I must admit I was wrong and now I feel that way about the North. It seems like nothing ever happens there, it's sterile and non-Austin like, none of the good restaurants are there, etc. And I can't imagine not being able to enjoy the constant cool views of the skyline from the south (which are by far the best). I mean, do people from North Austin even know what the skyline looks like? They really are missing out.

Only somewhat kidding

I may be prejudiced, but I find living south of Ben White in the southern (southwest really) end of town to be vastly more comfortable than living in far north. The nice and interesting part of north central Austin kind of hits the wall as one approaches 183, but things are not nearly as bleak and congested south of Ben White. The main north-south streets continue beyond Ben White, and they are starting to sprout with interesting local businesses. Traffic is less frantic in this part of town. The area is laced with parks, greenbelts, and hike and bike trails There is great grocery shopping (multiple HEBs, Whole Foods, Central Market) close at hand. It is possible to be downtown in 10 minutes or so during non-rush hour periods. Central south Austin (SoCo and SoLa) is even closer at hand. It probably is not the place to live, if you work way up north, but for those employed downtown or closer to home (Freescale, AMD, the Mopac south corridor, or even towards the airport), the area is super convenient. Best of all, it is still a relative bargain to buy property in this part of town. I try to tell my north Austin friends about the advantages of living down here, but it usually falls on deaf ears. I guess really that is a good thing. It might remain a secret just a while longer.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

There is no highway anywhere near the area.

And...

Highway, not freeway. Manchaca is fm 2304.

I'm not seeing any list where moon tower is in the top 10. whether
http://m.statesman.com/news/business/austin-alcohol-sales-up-11-percent-in-january/nfHPP/
Or previous months lists.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by Syndic

As someone who lives in "Way North Austin", this is practically in a completely different city than me. As a lifelong North Austinite, Way South Austin is strange and foreign to me. I seems like the neglected and forgotten part of Austin where no one ever goes. But this looks cool. I'm all for new entertainment districts popping up. I do like that it's more relaxed and carefree, but I think somewhere more central would be a better replacement for Rainey Street. Somewhere people from all over Austin can get to easily. This is more of a place just for South Austinites.

"Awesome, TX" is a bad name, though. It's really corny and dorky, and makes it sound like it's not part of Austin.

You know its funny because I think that north Austin once you get up past 183 is anywhere USA and really doesn't have that true Austin feel the way South Austin does. Once past Stassney like between Stassney and William Cannon, (no worries Kevin, your still in the cool part) I will say, that it also becomes more of a typical could be anywhere kinda feel, though I am much more used to it having grown up on this side than the north side. South Central Austin between Downtown and 290/71 is uniquely what makes Austin what it is.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by hookem

Ugh, I'm dreading this. You think a couple of liberal NIMBYs are bad, just imagine a bunch of conservative ones. Forget additional bicycle improvements, pedestrian improvements, or any expensive downtown projects. The new setup will waste just as much or more of our money, but we won't enjoy any downtown improvements because of it. Enjoy the last few months of pre-10-1 Austin, I have a feeling it's going to start sucking big time soon.

I agree with you on this, I think we will see the end of Austin's golden area and great success. Ive had a look at some of the earlybird candidates that are running in each of the districts, forget 2 or 3 NIMBY's on the council. I saw names like Jeff Jack, Adler, Kathie Tovo running in the Downtown District, I would be very surprised if she could win being so anti density. I saw other well known NIMBY names too. Thing is each is running in a different district which I said from the beginning would happen because now the ANC can just systematically run their candidates in the district they live in. Just looking at the difference between Houston with its hybrid system and San Antonio with the 10-1 system, while both cities are doing well, Houston is definitely the more successful city as its mostly right up there with Austin on the top lists and being a much larger city has much larger numerical gains in both economic growth and population growth.

without a good check and balance, the council will get into more situations where business will grind to a halt and council members will bicker with each other why their district should have this or that or whatever. if you think things take forever to get done now, just wait till our 10-1 system gets going.

A hybrid 8-3 system would make it less likely situations like that to occur since 2 council members would also be elected city wide. generally city wide council members are more sensible and they have the wellbeing of the city as a whole rather than just a single district. 8 districts would have worked just fine and really I think would make a much better fit for Austin.

[Syndic]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

You know its funny because I think that north Austin once you get up past 183 is anywhere USA and really doesn't have that true Austin feel the way South Austin does. Once past Stassney like between Stassney and William Cannon, (no worries Kevin, your still in the cool part) I will say, that it also becomes more of a typical could be anywhere kinda feel, though I am much more used to it having grown up on this side than the north side. South Central Austin between Downtown and 290/71 is uniquely what makes Austin what it is.

See, I think of North Austin suburbia the way you think of South Austin suburbia. I'm just used to it. And I'm comfortable in it. I grew up in this area. Back then, it was practically the farthest edge of North Austin. (My neighborhood was built in the late 70s.) Back then, Rundberg was just a regular middle class area, and was pretty safe. My parents used to drop me off (a scrawny white 12 year-old) at the skating rink off of Rundberg and I-35 without a worry in the world. But Kramer Ln. was always the dividing line between the classes, to a degree. 78758 is full of pretty, leafy, solidly middle class neighborhoods. We hung out Northcross Mall, Highland Mall, and the Arboretum. (Now, I guess 78758 kids go to The Domain.) Downtown was a place we only went on occasion. Like I said, there's more of Austin to the north. The south is a lot closer to downtown, but I challenge anybody to drive down Parkfield Drive without feeling comfortable there. It's a great area and it doesn't feel divorced from Austin, for me. The city council is going to get a great representative from District 7, I'm sure.

[Syndic]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I agree with you on this, I think we will see the end of Austin's golden area and great success. Ive had a look at some of the earlybird candidates that are running in each of the districts, forget 2 or 3 NIMBY's on the council. I saw names like Jeff Jack, Adler, Kathie Tovo running in the Downtown District, I would be very surprised if she could win being so anti density. I saw other well known NIMBY names too. Thing is each is running in a different district which I said from the beginning would happen because now the ANC can just systematically run their candidates in the district they live in. Just looking at the difference between Houston with its hybrid system and San Antonio with the 10-1 system, while both cities are doing well, Houston is definitely the more successful city as its mostly right up there with Austin on the top lists and being a much larger city has much larger numerical gains in both economic growth and population growth.

without a good check and balance, the council will get into more situations where business will grind to a halt and council members will bicker with each other why their district should have this or that or whatever. if you think things take forever to get done now, just wait till our 10-1 system gets going.

A hybrid 8-3 system would make it less likely situations like that to occur since 2 council members would also be elected city wide. generally city wide council members are more sensible and they have the wellbeing of the city as a whole rather than just a single district. 8 districts would have worked just fine and really I think would make a much better fit for Austin.

I agree that an 8-3 system would have been better but we still shouldn't give up hope of moving to an 8-3 system. It will be hard to convince our representatives to vote for it, but I think it's possible. Especially if the 10-1 plan proves too arduous. The neighborhood groups of the biggest neighborhoods will probably be the most powerful entities within these districts but many of the neighborhoods in these districts aren't fighting against development. That's not their main concern. It's not a threat to them. That's more of a downtown thing. To the contrary, I think most of the representatives will be fighting to encourage development within their districts. That could be a good thing for Austin in the long run but it could prove frustrating. I'm just hoping it ends up with these districts becoming less neglected and more full of character so that the entirety of Austin is improved, not just downtown.

Like I said, downtown wasn't a main focus of ours when I was growing up. We mostly stuck to our general area. But I think all Austinites like being able to visit downtown, from time to time, for festivals and special occasions and such. Also, for work, for plenty of people. One thing I can say for sure is that our city council will be less influenced by the youth vote, more influenced by the "mature" middle class. That probably means it will be a little bit more conservative, but it will also be somewhat more working class. I would be lying if I said I'm not excited to see who the new faces will be and how they will govern. It's exciting, if just in a morbidly curious way. It does kind of feel like finding out who your city really is, though. We've been ruled by the same class of people for so long.

Mike Martinez is a shoo-in for mayor, though, right? I'm sure we can all admit that.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I agree with you on this, I think we will see the end of Austin's golden area and great success. Ive had a look at some of the earlybird candidates that are running in each of the districts, forget 2 or 3 NIMBY's on the council. I saw names like Jeff Jack, Adler, Kathie Tovo running in the Downtown District, I would be very surprised if she could win being so anti density. I saw other well known NIMBY names too. Thing is each is running in a different district which I said from the beginning would happen because now the ANC can just systematically run their candidates in the district they live in. Just looking at the difference between Houston with its hybrid system and San Antonio with the 10-1 system, while both cities are doing well, Houston is definitely the more successful city as its mostly right up there with Austin on the top lists and being a much larger city has much larger numerical gains in both economic growth and population growth.

The other thing about Houston and Dallas is that they can maintain a democrat/progressive city council because their city limits have large minority areas (from white flight) which will support the left. Austin doesn't have that -- through annexation, the actual city limits are quite suburban overall. Since Dallas and Houston don't include much of their suburbs in the city limits, they can have a progressive city council with conservative suburbs. We won't have that -- suburban influence will overwhelm the new council. At least, that is what I fear.

[hookem]

BTW, re-reading my earlier response I realize I came across as really divisive about North vs South Austin. I apologize for that (and thanks Syndic for ignoring it right call). I guess I should have said, when I lived north I liked it, and now living south I like it. Probably because they both have their great qualities.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by hookem

BTW, re-reading my earlier response I realize I came across as really divisive about North vs South Austin. I apologize for that (and thanks Syndic for ignoring it right call). I guess I should have said, when I lived north I liked it, and now living south I like it. Probably because they both have their great qualities.

I lived by Berstrom AFB in the 80's and liked being close to dt because my wife worked at 9th and Congress. Had I not seen so many burgular bars on so many houses in South Austin and Oak Hill when I was house hunting in the early 90's, I would be living there today.
You guys get to live in an awesome part of town, but I get to visit whenever I can, with fresh eyes. The changes that are happening to downtown are dramatic to me. To you guys its more subtle. My wife and I both live within 10 minutes from our jobs so we are not contributing to your traffic woes. You may not get this, but even living in the Round Rock area, I still feel "Austin Proud".:

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by hookem

The other thing about Houston and Dallas is that they can maintain a democrat/progressive city council because their city limits have large minority areas (from white flight) which will support the left. Austin doesn't have that -- through annexation, the actual city limits are quite suburban overall. Since Dallas and Houston don't include much of their suburbs in the city limits, they can have a progressive city council with conservative suburbs. We won't have that -- suburban influence will overwhelm the new council. At least, that is what I fear.

I agree with you on this as well.

I would say within 10 years if things get real nasty we should form a strong coalition to push the city to revisit the hybrid system and vote on it again. Im pretty sure then people will realize what a mistake the 10-1 system was. I say that in that reference because I garentee it will fail epically and it's going to be a hard lesson for us to learn.

I said from the very beginning that the 8-3 system was the best choice and I feel we were screwed on the voting. If they never had the other options the way they did, I think that 8-3 would have been the winner.

[Austin_Expert]

Originally Posted by hookem

The other thing about Houston and Dallas is that they can maintain a democrat/progressive city council because their city limits have large minority areas (from white flight) which will support the left. Austin doesn't have that -- through annexation, the actual city limits are quite suburban overall. Since Dallas and Houston don't include much of their suburbs in the city limits, they can have a progressive city council with conservative suburbs. We won't have that -- suburban influence will overwhelm the new council. At least, that is what I fear.

The city of Austin, while not as diverse as Houston and Dallas, is majority-minority, and is increasingly less White.

Also, Dallas, and Houston in particular, both have huge city limits in area, containing vast suburban areas.

[Austin_Expert]

it's also worth mentioning that the city of Austin, and all of Travis County are ver Democratic. There may end up being some conservative council members now, but they will be in the minority. The proof is in the voting history of this city and county.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Austin_Expert

The city of Austin, while not as diverse as Houston and Dallas, is majority-minority, and is increasingly less White.

Also, Dallas, and Houston in particular, both have huge city limits in area, containing vast suburban areas.

Yes. The non-Hispanic white percent in the 2010 census was 48.7%.

However, the voting population is almost certainly majority white, once you account for age, citizenship, other eligibility factors like felon disenfranchisement, and turnout disparities driven by civic engagement, socioeconomic status, and other factors. Both the Asian community and the Hispanic community face these diverse factors, and have incredibly low participatory rates (Asians lower than Hispanics, actually, especially in areas where the Asian population is largely drawn from Vietnamese immigrants).

During presidential years, I'd venture to estimate that the actual voter universe (this is actual campaign terminology) is 60% non-Hispanic white. During city council and mayoral races which had been held by themselves, probably 65%-70% non-Hispanic white. We're now moving to a November election, iirc, so I expect that to oscillate with the presidential/midterm turnout dynamic between 60%-65%.

[Mopacs]

From yesterday, 4/5

[JoninATX]

Thanks Mopacs. I love that 1st photo, and the close up of 7 Rio (4th picture from the last). As well as what looks like Cirrus Logic has started it's expansion.

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by JoninATX

Thanks Mopacs. I love that 1st photo, and the close up of 7 Rio (4th picture from the last). As well as what looks like Cirrus Logic has started it's expansion.

Thanks! Trying to get downtown more often... wait a few weeks and you miss a lot.