Downtown Canada

[Chadillaccc]

This is Calgary's inner city, basically everything that was covered in the historic streetcar network. The approximate population as of the 2012 municipal census is 260 000, with an immediate population around (and including) downtown of approx. 80 000 in Downtown (including all downtown neighbourhoods mentioned above), Sunalta, Scarboro, Sunnyside, Mission, Mount Royal, Ramsay, Inglewood, Bridgeland, Hillhurst, West Hillhurst, and Crescent Heights. All of which are within 1.5 kilometers from the CBD... or less even? too much effort to check after all that math adding up the neighbourhood populations

[ue]

^ Do you mean that the 80k figure is based solely on the Downtown neighbourhoods mentioned on the previous page or the Downtown neighbourhoods plus areas like Sunnyside? Just want to clarify.

[Chadillaccc]

Yes, that's why I said "with an immediate population around (and including) downtown". By that I meant immediate area around and including downtown Hence the neighbourhoods I mentioned.

[ue]

Ok, just wanted to be sure.

[Chadillaccc]

Well clearly I'm not gonna say 80 000 live downtown Since they don't. Just within easy walking distance.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ue

For Toronto, I think of the West End as anywhere from the Grange/Baldwin Village to High Park...

I agree. Basically everything from University or Spadina or Bathurst (arguments can be made for any of those) all the way to the Humber River, from the lake to Eglinton. West end isn't one neighbourhood, but a whole whack of 'em.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Given my participation in the thread which created this thread I thought I should put forward my thoughts on the two cities I have the most knowledge on.

For Toronto my map is similar to what most, I'm just not sure about the donlands. I think they will cognitively be part of downtown soon but it just isn't there yet.

For me there are two downtowns, the actual downtown which consists of the core and greater core, and greater downtown, (also know as downtown for someone from the 905 ), which would consist of all the highlighted neighborhoods. I live at yonge and bloor and don't consider it downtown, but some from Mississauga surely would. It's an ambiguous definition that needs context and is highly subjective.

Anyway here's my map:

Its hard not to stretch the "West End" past Bathurst these days to the park. Before there used to a definitive split, but these days it blends all in to Bellwoods for most of the main streetcar avenues.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by ue

Also, here's a calculation of population for "Greater" Downtown Edmonton (numbers from 2012 municipal census)

Downtown - 12,199
Oliver - 18,580
Rossdale - 819
Boyle Street - 6,947
McCauley - 4,183
Central McDougall - 4,712
Queen Mary Park - 7,385

Greater Downtown Total Population (2012) - 54,825

Rossdale, Central McDougall, and Boyle Street all posted population declines from the 2009 census. However, with new condos already under construction in the Quarters part of Boyle Street as well as increased general interest, I don't see the decline continuing for long. Also at the eastern end of the neighbourhood, near Stadium Station, is the Edgewater development already well underway. Central McDougall should see increased interest as well as the core continues pushing northward from the Arena District as well as the North Edge pushing eastward from Queen Mary Park. Rossdale has a redevelopment plan as well, but I'm not sure how long it'll be before that comes to fruition.

The other neighbourhoods are already growing at a healthy rate. Downtown has already doubled its 2001 population and with so much on the horizon, it likely won't be long before it hits 20,000. Oliver, the heart of downtown residential, is continuing to build condos and apartments, with the Pearl, Our Parents Home, and J22 already underway. Queen Mary Park has seen a lot of new low-rise condos over the past decade, particularly around 105th Ave. Hopefully that area continues to revitalize as it has a lot of potential.

No shout out to Cloverdale? I could probably drive a golf ball off my balcony across the river to downtown!

This place truly feels like it's own enclave from anywhere else in the city.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

No shout out to Cloverdale? I could probably drive a golf ball off my balcony across the river to downtown!

This place truly feels like it's own enclave from anywhere else in the city.

Cloverdale is across the river and kind of has its own thing going. People don't refer to Cloverdale as "downtown." That's mostly what I was using as a gauge. I also left out Strathcona, Ritchie, Bonnie Doon, Queen Alexandra, Garneau, North Campus, and Windsor Park for the same reason. The only area I was on the fence about including was Westmount...

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Like my Toronto map, my map for Vancouver has two downtowns, a true downtown and a greater downtown. For me the true downtown is the Financial Core, Coal Harbour, East Side, West End and Yaletown, while Olympic Village, Fairview and the Broadway Corridor add in to make the greater downtown.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/13584035183_93150cce05_o.jpg

You consider the south bank of False Creek and even the Broadway corridor as part of Vancouver's downtown, but not Trinity Bellwoods or Regent Park in Toronto's? I wouldn't consider them as downtown either, but that's not very consistent.




Downtown Toronto is most commonly and most easily defined as being contained within Bathurst to the Don River, and from the lake to Bloor, plus Yorkville, while the pre-amalgamation borders of Toronto are a common proxy for the inner city (sometimes seemingly broadly referred to as "downtown" by the Rob Ford crowd). The area in red had about 175,000 residents and over 400,000 jobs in 13 sqkm as of 2011, while the purple area probably had a total of about 750,000 people in 97 sqkm.




Though I personally would consider what's between Jarvis and Spadina as being downtown, and the rough extent of pre-war development as the inner city.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You consider the south bank of False Creek and even the Broadway corridor as part of Vancouver's downtown, but not Trinity Bellwoods or Regent Park in Toronto's? I wouldn't consider them as downtown either, but that's not very consistent.

How do you figure? The Broadway corridor is stretch of density similar to the peninsula, separated by only a small strip of water and now connected on the east side by Olympic village/Main St developments to the central core creating an uninterrupted mass of similar densities.

Conversely the density around Trinity Bellwoods is markedly different from the core and greater core and is primarily composed of detached and semi detached homes, in a dense but quite less dense than 'downtown' urban neighbourhood. I don't know why people keep bringing it up as its inclusion into "downtown Toronto" only serves to make the downtown Toronto population significantly less dense.

Both Toronto and Vancouver's most impressive numbers come when you focus on the more traditional definitions of downtown and achieve per km2 denisties in the high teens.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Though I personally would consider what's between Jarvis and Spadina as being downtown, and the rough extent of pre-war development as the inner city.

That more or less mirrors my feelings about the core, with a distinction between "uptown" (north of college) and "downtown" being south. For me though the big drop off in feeling has always come at Spadina, although that is changing rather quickly.

[ue]

^ I personally don't mind it. The communities west of Spadina have tremendous character and I'd hate that to be lost to a bunch of giant condoplexes.

[GlassCity]

I wouldn't consider Broadway "downtown" exactly, but it's definitely an extension of it if that makes any sense. What I mean is that it's clear that Broadway is the natural continuation of downtown across False Creek, but I'd never say "let's go downtown" and mean Broadway.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

That more or less mirrors my feelings about the core, with a distinction between "uptown" (north of college) and "downtown" being south. For me though the big drop off in feeling has always come at Spadina, although that is changing rather quickly.

I would say Bathurst myself. So much of the action has been pushed west of Spadina due to condos, that a lot of the downtown style action and attractions are west of Spadina now.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Great thread Idea.

I really think it depends on what you'd classify as downtown.

I consider the city of Vancouver's downtown to be anything in the downtown peninsula bounded by main street in the east and stanley park/english bay in the west.

The CBD is what most people would probably call downtown and is relatively small. Conversely, greater Vancouver's core is much larger, I'd probably also include everything south of false creek to broadway as part of the metro core.

[Beedok]

I suppose no other city has a penchant for labelling half the city downtown like Hamilton does.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

How do you figure? The Broadway corridor is stretch of density similar to the peninsula, separated by only a small strip of water and now connected on the east side by Olympic village/Main St developments to the central core creating an uninterrupted mass of similar densities.

Conversely the density around Trinity Bellwoods is markedly different from the core and greater core and is primarily composed of detached and semi detached homes, in a dense but quite less dense than 'downtown' urban neighbourhood. I don't know why people keep bringing it up as its inclusion into "downtown Toronto" only serves to make the downtown Toronto population significantly less dense.

Population density alone is not what makes a downtown. Downtowns are the main commercial (and usually historic) centres of a region, typically including immediately adjacent residential areas. The Broadway corridor is an independent commercial area physically incongruent with downtown. An appropriate analogue to Toronto would be an area like Yonge & St. Clair - a significant, densely populated commercial centre close to but not part of downtown.

Though as far as density is concerned - the population of the 6 census tracts that make up the Broadway, Fairview, and Olympic Village areas creates a density of around 8,200/sqkm (much lower than the downtown peninsula), compared to 9,800/sqkm in the 4 census tracts around Trinity Bellwoods, and 11,000/sqkm in Regent Park-Cabbagetown-Corktown. These are also areas centred around commercial streets originating and moving seamlessly from the downtown core. Still, they're not downtown.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I suppose no other city has a penchant for labelling half the city downtown like Hamilton does.

?

I've heard the odd person from the suburban areas refer to the lower part of the old city as "downtown", but I don't recall the city ever defining it that way.

I've seen city maps where it was defined as Queen to Wellington, and Cannon to Hunter, with north and south extensions along James. This report has one (p.4, but with the eastern border placed just past Victoria)

[GreaterMontréal]

+ Plateau Mont-Royal