Downtown Canada

[ue]

4th Street in Mission definitely stands out, but not in the Beltline.

I guess with the whole CBD spill over, there is more you could theoretically have as an excuse to be in the Beltline, but in terms of destination amenities - shops, cafes, restaurants, bars, lounges, festivals, markets, etc. I would still say Old Strathcona is about equal to the Beltline or exceeding it if you factor in the theatre district, which is one of the best in Canada.

[Wigs]

Modified Map from source: city of Calgary

To me, downtown includes all of these neighbourhoods recognized by the city as "Centre City"

2013 Downtown population is ~37,000
population breakdown:
Downtown (CBD) - 8,426
Eau Claire - 1,728
Chinatown - 1,596
West End - 2,278
East Village - 2,775
Beltline - 20,194

Once the Civic Census numbers for 2014 get tallied and released (July I believe) there should be a noticeable increase.

In a few years the population will increase even more as East Village and Beltline have some substantial residential buildings under construction, including the city's tallest residential tower, the 44 storey Guardian. When the Guardian's south tower get built (currently in sales mode), there will be 624 units alone in the two 44 storey towers.

fun fact: ~160,000 people work in "Centre City" Calgary

[Chadillaccc]

Agreed WIGS, that's exactly what I consider Downtown as well. Except that map is out of date, West Connaught, Connaught Centre, Victoria Crossing, and East Victoria are all combined into the Beltline now, and have been for over a decade.

The downtown population will almost certainly be 50 000 or more by the early 2020s. Even the Evolution project in the East Village will have a total of around 600 units too! It's amazing how much is going on, with more and more coming, and some starting out of the blue without warning like BCIMC and Royal View East!

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Your opinion of Calgary is pretty clear, and it's not a good one. So why would you care about that?

My opinion of Calgary is always evolving. I don't mind taking a look at what potential a certain street might have. I'm critical of any project in any city that destroys interesting retail like the Lido project does in Kensington. Preserving the existing retail is critical in forming a vibrant neighbourhood.

I don't see the East Village working all that well, just as I don't see Metrotown working all that well, or Oakridge for that matter. All these new developments and new neighbourhoods have a strong tendency toward blandness. I'd say I'm being more critical of developers and city planners than than any particular city itself. Luckily Vancouver has streets with smaller scale retail to build a vibrant neighbourhood around. For example Fraser st is starting to establish itself. And if the streets you mentioned in Calgary have smaller scale retail already in place, they can be rehabbed (like Main St was a 10 or 15 years ago) as well.

[Chadillaccc]

Comparing the East Village to Metrotown spells out your bias just as clearly as I already perceived it. Read up on it, please, even just a tiny bit, since you obviously know nothing about the East Village development. If not, just stop saying these ridiculous things, since you're not informed on the subject regardless.

[logan5]

I didn't make a direct comparison to the east village, which is just a vision at this point. But take a look at Soverign in Metrotown. It won't shock me to see something like this in the East Village. All the hype around Soverign and it is a huge disappointment. Maybe things will turn out great for the east village, just like I hope the station square development delivers a Yaletown vibe, but I'm not holding my breath. My hope is that the city and developers are listening and decide that they need to up their game.

[Chadillaccc]

It's not a vision, three of the residential towers are already UC, two of which are above ground, the National Music Centre is topped out, St. Patrick's Island Park is well-underway, and site prep on both the Central Library and Hilton has begun, and sales are underway for 2 more res buildings, not to mention the revitalization of several of the historic buildings. Again, read, please.


Other than that, I agree. I don't mind the tower portion of Sovereign, but the podium is bleh, but at least the renders showed that it would be bleh. Station Square has a great opportunity, being right next to the Crystal Mall (which I happen to think is a very cool urban little complex) and other "urban" style amenities in Metrotown, so yeah hopefully it turns out good. It is going to take a long time for it to fill in substantially anyways. Also to note, at least the Sovereign didn't replace anything good, just that awful cinder block bunker that used to stand there.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by WIGS

Modified Map from source: city of Calgary

To me, downtown includes all of these neighbourhoods recognized by the city as "Centre City"

2013 Downtown population is ~37,000
population breakdown:
Downtown (CBD) - 8,426
Eau Claire - 1,728
Chinatown - 1,596
West End - 2,278
East Village - 2,775
Beltline - 20,194

Once the Civic Census numbers for 2014 get tallied and released (July I believe) there should be a noticeable increase.

In a few years the population will increase even more as East Village and Beltline have some substantial residential buildings under construction, including the city's tallest residential tower, the 44 storey Guardian. When the Guardian's south tower get built (currently in sales mode), there will be 624 units alone in the two 44 storey towers.

fun fact: ~160,000 people work in "Centre City" Calgary

Sorry about my lack of knowledge of Calgary, but why is the beltline bigger than actual downtown.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Two adjacent neighbourhoods - the Ecclesiastical District and Fort William - are sometimes considered part of the Downtown by locals. However, all other adjacent neighbourhoods never are.

For visitors and tourists, however, the Downtown - as they'd be used to the concept from other cities (CBD, heavily commercial areas) - would extend from Riverhead to Hoylestown.

I've always considered that stretch of Riverhead to Hoylestown parallel to the harbour as "downtown", and specifically from the point in Riverhead where Old Topsail and Waterford Bridge meet to start Water Street all along to to near the Battery. Also anything down the hill from Penneywell/Harvey. There was once a point in time where I considered the area around Rawlins Cross to be downtown, now I just think of it and Georgestown as a whole, as a nice, trendy, slightly uptown neighborhood.

My girlfriend used the term "gentrified" when describing Georgestown a few days ago and I made fun of her for it But apparently many years ago the area was in rough shape. Now it's a really trendy place to live if you're a part of that downtown hipster scene that the kids these days seem to enjoy

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Sorry about my lack of knowledge of Calgary, but why is the beltline bigger than actual downtown.

'downtown' on the map is just a tiny (~1 sq. km) area of the core Central Business District. This dense office skyscraper/highrise cluster represents the bulk of about 40 Million square feet of office space.

Beltline is 2 former neighbourhoods (Connaught and Victoria Park) that merged into one in 2003.
The only thing separating 'downtown' from Beltline is the CPR tracks, which is why most Calgarians use the definition of 'downtown' to be what myself and Chadillaccc described.
Beltline has over 20,000 residents and another 7 Million square feet of office space.


The area that I consider Calgary's Downtown (minus Stampede Park) is only ~4.4 sq. km.
In this 'Centre City' area you have ~160,000 workers, 37,000 residents and 47 Million + square feet of office space.

to put in perspective with Calgary's total city area

[LeftCoaster]

Given my participation in the thread which created this thread I thought I should put forward my thoughts on the two cities I have the most knowledge on.

For Toronto my map is similar to what most, I'm just not sure about the donlands. I think they will cognitively be part of downtown soon but it just isn't there yet.

For me there are two downtowns, the actual downtown which consists of the core and greater core, and greater downtown, (also know as downtown for someone from the 905 ), which would consist of all the highlighted neighborhoods. I live at yonge and bloor and don't consider it downtown, but some from Mississauga surely would. It's an ambiguous definition that needs context and is highly subjective.

Anyway here's my map:

[LeftCoaster]

Like my Toronto map, my map for Vancouver has two downtowns, a true downtown and a greater downtown. For me the true downtown is the Financial Core, Coal Harbour, East Side, West End and Yaletown, while Olympic Village, Fairview and the Broadway Corridor add in to make the greater downtown.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

My girlfriend used the term "gentrified" when describing Georgestown a few days ago and I made fun of her for it But apparently many years ago the area was in rough shape. Now it's a really trendy place to live if you're a part of that downtown hipster scene that the kids these days seem to enjoy

Everywhere in St. John's with attached rowhouses either always was or became a lower class area in the early-to-mid 1900s. And this lasted, in most areas, well into the 1970s.

When our parents were our age, you couldn't give away a house on even the most prestigious rowhouse streets, such as Gower and Prescott.

It started with the decline of service as a profession of choice for the lower classes. All those large rowhouses with servants' quarters in the garret were no longer functional for the upper classes. They became like... owning a car once we run out of gasoline.

The mixed neighbourhoods, where the rich and poor lived together with the poor there to serve the rich - such as Gower, Prescott, and Georgestown - all became like Rabbittown and worse. Even the grandest rowhouses on Gower became boarding houses once the rich left.

The rowhouse districts were only saved when our new, post-Confederation middle class decided that was where they wanted to live. Gentrification in action. The current class and lifestyle of Gower Street - that educated, trendy, typically North American middle class - simply didn't exist in St. John's prior to Confederation. You were either very poor, involved in politics, or a member of old money, merchant upper class.

You can still see it today in comparing, say, Rabbittown with Circular Road. Back in the day, those were the only two options. The difference was Circular Road-type people owned the rowhouses on Gower, and someone from Rabbittown like me could get a job serving them - butlers, footmen, housemaids, whatever else - and live in the attic floor garret.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

...
For me there are two downtowns, the actual downtown which consists of the core and greater core, and greater downtown, (also know as downtown for someone from the 905 ), which would consist of all the highlighted neighborhoods. I live at yonge and bloor and don't consider it downtown, but some from Mississauga surely would. It's an ambiguous definition that needs context and is highly subjective.

Anyway here's my map:

looks pretty good to me!
going by POIs, I'd personally consider the ROM, U of T campus, and Lee's Palace downtown.
If you want to measure the areas of your downtown(s) try this website http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm

[softee]

The area labelled "Grab Bag" is the most densely populated part of the greater downtown, kind of like Toronto's version of Vancouver's West End.

[LeftCoaster]

Ya I know, it's just a "grab bag" of neighbourhoods so I didn't know which one to call it.

Bits and pieces of cabbage town, the gaybourhood, St James Town etc...

[ue]

For Toronto, I think of the West End as anywhere from the Grange/Baldwin Village to High Park, not just the Grange/Baldwin, though I agree those areas feel more connected to a broader Downtown for Toronto. Grab bag part, I think it should just be Church-Wellesley and St. James Town, leave the sliver of Cabbagetown out.

[ue]

Also, here's a calculation of population for "Greater" Downtown Edmonton (numbers from 2012 municipal census)

Downtown - 12,199
Oliver - 18,580
Rossdale - 819
Boyle Street - 6,947
McCauley - 4,183
Central McDougall - 4,712
Queen Mary Park - 7,385

Greater Downtown Total Population (2012) - 54,825

Rossdale, Central McDougall, and Boyle Street all posted population declines from the 2009 census. However, with new condos already under construction in the Quarters part of Boyle Street as well as increased general interest, I don't see the decline continuing for long. Also at the eastern end of the neighbourhood, near Stadium Station, is the Edgewater development already well underway. Central McDougall should see increased interest as well as the core continues pushing northward from the Arena District as well as the North Edge pushing eastward from Queen Mary Park. Rossdale has a redevelopment plan as well, but I'm not sure how long it'll be before that comes to fruition.

The other neighbourhoods are already growing at a healthy rate. Downtown has already doubled its 2001 population and with so much on the horizon, it likely won't be long before it hits 20,000. Oliver, the heart of downtown residential, is continuing to build condos and apartments, with the Pearl, Our Parents Home, and J22 already underway. Queen Mary Park has seen a lot of new low-rise condos over the past decade, particularly around 105th Ave. Hopefully that area continues to revitalize as it has a lot of potential.

[J.OT13]

City of Ottawa's definition of the greater core, called "inner area" and the true downtown, called "central area".

Rough numbers based on 2006 undercount federal census, 2006 municipal census and population increase since then: the inner area and central area combined has about 22 million square feet of office space, 160,000 jobs and 110,000 residents.

The central area has 20 million square feet of office space, 100,000 jobs and 10,000 residents.


http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-a...ening-your-neighbourhood/downtown-living

Add in the island of Hull with close to 8 million square feet of office space and maybe another 10,000 residents (very rough estimate).

[Chadillaccc]

Nice Ottawa map!