Calgary International Airport II

[MalcolmTucker]

How much of a magnetic signature would a modern airplane have? If it is at all magnetic, and the gulf floor isn't full of iron erratic, they will find a wreckage if it is there pretty soon.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How much of a magnetic signature would a modern airplane have? If it is at all magnetic, and the gulf floor isn't full of iron erratic, they will find a wreckage if it is there pretty soon.

Just about zero, only very small portions of some systems would be steel. Hydraulic piping (stainless steel) would be one that I can think of, but for the most part it's all aluminum on that generation of A/C. When you get into the latest generation that amount shrinks further with the massive adoption of composites.

Edit: The landing gear may be steel, not sure though

[VIce]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How much of a magnetic signature would a modern airplane have? If it is at all magnetic, and the gulf floor isn't full of iron erratic, they will find a wreckage if it is there pretty soon.

There's not so much need to locate passive features of the aircraft, like magnetism (which would be minimal anyway), as active signals should be broadcast from the aircraft. The data recorders will be broadcasting a pinging signal, in both hydroacoustic and RF. The RF signal might be perceptible from the surface, if it's in shallow enough water. If it's more than a KM down or so, it will be the hydroacoustic signal that will be picked up.

This is a bad thing for a speedy recovery, though. During the Air France disaster, a French sub surveyed the hydroacoustics in the search area in the first few weeks after the disaster. It was ultimately this data that resulted in the location of the aircraft, however the data analysis required several man-years to complete and result in a location (with assistance from IFREMER, of all people).

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How much of a magnetic signature would a modern airplane have? If it is at all magnetic, and the gulf floor isn't full of iron erratic, they will find a wreckage if it is there pretty soon.

Ever seen pictures of the US Military pull out from Vietnam??? The Navy was dumping aircraft off the back end in order to lighten the loads.

Also doubt the Vietnamese are too thrilled letting US Navy back into their waters. It took specialized US Military equipment to get the AF447 flight recorders.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Just about zero, only very small portions of some systems would be steel. Hydraulic piping (stainless steel) would be one that I can think of, but for the most part it's all aluminum on that generation of A/C. When you get into the latest generation that amount shrinks further with the massive adoption of composites.

Edit: The landing gear may be steel, not sure though

Bear in mind, austenitic steels are not magnetic. I'm not sure if hydraulic piping would be austenitic or not, but austenitic grades have the highest corrosion resistance.

[Fuzz]

Layman's question here... why is there some sort of floating transponder on the external body of planes that would be released and float in the event of a water crash? We have SPOT transmitters that let us locate people in the wilderness, surly this wouldn't be to complicated?

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

For me this accident has echos of the Air France accident off Brazil a few years ago. Everyone said that a modern airliner wouldn't disappear 2C6VW0HE that one did and it took over 2 years to find the wreckage, I would suspect that it'll take at least a year to find the wreckage.

Also I seem to remember that in the Air France case a debris field was found quite quickly after the flight went down. They just could not locate the sunken wreckage (which turned out to be in an undersea canyon no less than 13 000 feet down!).

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by VIce

Bear in mind, austenitic steels are not magnetic. I'm not sure if hydraulic piping would be austenitic or not, but austenitic grades have the highest corrosion resistance.

Very well could be.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Layman's question here... why is there some sort of floating transponder on the external body of planes that would be released and float in the event of a water crash? We have SPOT transmitters that let us locate people in the wilderness, surly this wouldn't be to complicated?

You invent one and get it certified, you'd make a million (don't forget to bring 2M to start)

Originally Posted by PPAR

Also I seem to remember that in the Air France case a debris field was found quite quickly after the flight went down. They just could not locate the sunken wreckage (which turned out to be in an undersea canyon no less than 13 000 feet down!).

You would expect that at least some of the wreckage (insulation, seats, some fuselage skin, etc.) would float around the impact point. Hope they have better luck with this one so the families can have closure.

[Cage]

What day is it today??????

Here is some avgeek porn for your Humpday.

• Video Link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2b06qtqpp4

Might as well be an airshow over Panorama right now. Love these Chinook days, long live runway 29.

Nav Canada RJ maybe working on runway 11/29 today, I see it taxiing near the threshold of 11 and the runway is NOTAM closed from 0830-1230 local.

AC 1150 YYC-YYZ is a 763 today, departing momentarily. With LHR upgraded to an A330, the OGG plane has to fly YYC-YYZ to get out of the YYC-OGG-YYC-NRT-YYC rut.

[Cage]

Some avgeek plane porn for your Sunday afternoon

https://www.flickr.com/photos/news46/13188401325/

AC rouge 763 with winglets.

Glad to see they're red. I was concerned they'd be white.

[CalgaryLankan]

Can a one aircraft snuck just over or under another one to escape radar/ATC detection?

This is somewhat fascinating theory but not sure if technically its possible???

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68

It's possible but man I'm really starting to tune out on all the theories right now. I'll wait until there's something more concrete before I start worrying about the plausibility of all this.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Acey

It's possible but man I'm really starting to tune out on all the theories right now. I'll wait until there's something more concrete before I start worrying about the plausibility of all this.

Me too Acey, I've pretty much just skimmed the last few pages of the CP thread. I'll wait for anything concrete before wading back in.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

It's possible but man I'm really starting to tune out on all the theories right now. I'll wait until there's something more concrete before I start worrying about the plausibility of all this.

I agree with you Acey and Bigtime.

However I am more interested in the following Airliners.net threads:
- WestJet Potentially to IAH
- IAH Could Potentially See 4 more International Airlines in 2014.

Both thread mentioned that WS is one of the four airlines considering IAH as a destination. The threads are rather bland, but that is expected from a forum so far away for YYC and WS realities.

YYC-IAH has been on my WS wish list for a long time. However not for usual suspect reasons. I am interested in removal of the US Federal Trade Commissions restrictions removed for this route from the aspect of AC-UA-LHGroup-SAS antitrust immunity agreement. The ATI++ agreement provide for restrictions on dozen routes where AC and UA were the only competition and YYC-IAH is one of the route. To get the restriction removed, another airline must fly the route for one full IATA season.

The ATI++ restrictions have been the main reason why WS has not flown the largest transborder market out of YYC. Its also the main reason why AC CRAs are on the route at competing time to UA 737s (e.g. both AC and UA have 8:30am departure from YYC to IAH) It is also restrictions like this that restrict AC from offering select UA flight to their flight pass program.

My angle is that if WS were to start YYC-IAH services, it highly likely that AC-A would respond by upgrading the AC flights to Embraers, having increased market coordination for a better overall schedule. All this comes the day AC-UA don't have to compete with one another on YYC-IAH.

From a WS perspective they do not want to start IAH knowing that doing so will start the count down clock to the day when the AC-UA bear gets released. One IATA season give WS a little bit of breathing room but not enough to get run down by AC-UA.

[Bigtime]

What about the HOU option being mentioned on a.net? Would that hold the "bear" back a little if they wait until 2015 when HOU goes international?

[Policy Wonk]

Provided gates are available there is no reason WS couldn't go to HOU tomorrow.

Immigration is on-site full time. The availability of federal immigration authorities should further inspection be required is really the only criteria for pre-clearance.

WestJet went to SNA before it opened it's international terminal.

The potential problem I see with Houston is peeling away the Aeroplan and MileagePlus junkie business travellers.

[tuffyy]

Originally Posted by Cage

I agree with you Acey and Bigtime.

However I am more interested in the following Airliners.net threads:
- WestJet Potentially to IAH
- IAH Could Potentially See 4 more International Airlines in 2014.

Both thread mentioned that WS is one of the four airlines considering IAH as a destination. The threads are rather bland, but that is expected from a forum so far away for YYC and WS realities.

YYC-IAH has been on my WS wish list for a long time. However not for usual suspect reasons. I am interested in removal of the US Federal Trade Commissions restrictions removed for this route from the aspect of AC-UA-LHGroup-SAS antitrust immunity agreement. The ATI++ agreement provide for restrictions on dozen routes where AC and UA were the only competition and YYC-IAH is one of the route. To get the restriction removed, another airline must fly the route for one full IATA season.

The ATI++ restrictions have been the main reason why WS has not flown the largest transborder market out of YYC. Its also the main reason why AC CRAs are on the route at competing time to UA 737s (e.g. both AC and UA have 8:30am departure from YYC to IAH) It is also restrictions like this that restrict AC from offering select UA flight to their flight pass program.

My angle is that if WS were to start YYC-IAH services, it highly likely that AC-A would respond by upgrading the AC flights to Embraers, having increased market coordination for a better overall schedule. All this comes the day AC-UA don't have to compete with one another on YYC-IAH.

From a WS perspective they do not want to start IAH knowing that doing so will start the count down clock to the day when the AC-UA bear gets released. One IATA season give WS a little bit of breathing room but not enough to get run down by AC-UA.

WS would hit up most of the YYC-IAH/HOU YEG-IAH/HOU O&D market since it really has no strong alliances with anyone in Houston. UA/AC concentrate on a mixed bag of O&D and Connecting traffic at IAH currently.

My question would be that WS jump into the foray with more than just a single daily flight to test the waters first?

And the UA/AC alliance has the ability of up gauging to such aircraft as the 752 (UA) or more 739's. It would turn into a bit of a blood fest for seats to Houston if this occurs.

But I could see this happening at least with a daily YYC-IAH/HOU ''test the market'' kinda idea.

On a side note keep a eye on Allegiant air who is expected to start marketing its Allegiant Vacations brand at some point later in the summer to YYC and YEG offering destinations like Orlando, Ft.Lauderdale and Miami for winter 14/15.