PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Plokoon11]

Another new development!? Jeeez. It looks almost as tall as the commerce twins.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

Another new development!? Jeeez. It looks almost as tall as the commerce twins.

For real. This incessant stream of new development is getting to be quite tiresome.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

Noice.

Very, very sexy!

[jakel]

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

Noice.

Anything that can block that PECO running billboard, I hope it gets surrounded on all sides by skyscrapers. Although I feel sorry for the residents that are going to have to see recurring ads reminding them that it's "Take Your Pet Rock To Work Month" and an LED alarm clock the size of a rowhome out their window.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by jakel

Anything that can block that PECO running billboard, I hope it gets surrounded on all sides by skyscrapers. Although I feel sorry for the residents that are going to have to see recurring ads reminding them that it's "Take Your Pet Rock To Work Month" and an LED alarm clock the size of a rowhome out their window.

I know its cool to hate skyscrapers from the 60's and 70's but I like the PECO building. I always love coming into the city on 76 and seeing that sign.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by rricci

PENDOT presented once again at the LSNA meeting this past Tuesday night. They are putting out an RFP to replace the bridge caps along 676 VIne Street Expressway at 22, 21, 20. 19 and 18th streets with some changes to the BFP lanes and lots of beautification and greening. They are also planning to cap the space in front of the Free Library and increase the size of Shakespeare Park, centered around an oval. As far as the stairs to JFK, they chose 22nd street as it is the midpoint of their target which was 21st, 22nd and 23rd. At this point there will be stairs and a ramp starting at the NW corner of Cuthbert and 22nd Street (under the Septa tracks). They need an agreement from the owner of the property, which happens to be the same owner of the 23rd Street proposal for River Walk. Several folks at the meeting expressed the benefit of having access to JFK from 23rd also, and PENDOT is not opposed, but at this point does not have the room or money. My personal theory, however, is that the owner of the land will negotiate a stairway from 23rd to increase the accessibility and value of his River Walk development in exchange for an agreeable price on a ROW land lease. In any case, all 9 capping projects and the stairs are scheduled to begin next spring. The Vine Street Expressway project has a 4 year completion target date, while the BFP caps have a 1-2 year completion date.

What do you mean bridge caps - more beautification so to speak of the bridge and pedestrian ways over 676 or full caps?

Either way sound good - these are not actually that old really actually

on 22nd versus 23rd - almost would rather see one along the river than at 23rd but either would be a huge improvement along with 22nd

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

I'll say it. Clean up the riff raff in Norristown and there you have your urban area in KOP.

I see where you are going with this but DT Norristown and the heart of KOP are a bit too far apart to be relevant to each other in that way my opinion, both literally and figuratively.

[Pennsgrant]

Im just not a fan of this Riverwalk development at all. If you took away the city surroundings from that rendering you would think this thing belonged in Anywhere USA. So vanilla, so disturbingly modern. Is it Myrtle Beach? is it Indianapolis? is it Boca raton? Is it Jersey City. I am so sick of these friggin detail-deficient square glass boxes. Blehhhh

How about given me some architecture that reflects the city of Philadelphia? . Give me a nice densely packed series of 7-9 story stone buildings. Give me 12th + Walnut not Kuala Lumpur.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

Im just not a fan of this Riverwalk development at all. If you took away the city surroundings from that rendering you would think this thing belonged in Anywhere USA. So vanilla, so disturbingly modern. Is it Myrtle Beach? is it Indianapolis? is it Boca raton? Is it Jersey City. I am so sick of these friggin detail-deficient square glass boxes. Blehhhh

How about given me some architecture that reflects the city of Philadelphia? . Give me a nice densely packed series of 7-9 story stone buildings. Give me 12th + Walnut not Kuala Lumpur.

While I understand the point - not all buildings will be wondrous. Could this be better, yes. I also look at some of the intangibles - this appears to have decent curb appeal is retro-fitting a pretty abysmal space and looks to improve it with some retail, frontage and access to the river and trail and public all by additionally adding some to JFK and potentially stairs to connect space that is now void - plus it opens public to access a public amenity - this goes way further than does the Chop complex along the same river further south - good infill with productive interface - overall I say a win in the current form

[summersm343]

Nice!!! I'm glad they're going with the taller tower site plan. I would love to see new tall towers lining JFK and Market from 20th onward. This is DEFINITELY 400+ feet. Maybe even 500 feet. The PECO building is 384 feet tall and this is SIGNIFICANTLY taller than it.

Keep the new projects coming!!!... and more of these need to start breaking ground ASAP!

Can't wait until summer when a lot of these will be under construction.

[SJPhillyBoy]

The amount of development that is going to occur over the next two years is starting to become over whelming.



This is unbelievable.

[ConstructStudent]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

Im just not a fan of this Riverwalk development at all. If you took away the city surroundings from that rendering you would think this thing belonged in Anywhere USA. So vanilla, so disturbingly modern. Is it Myrtle Beach? is it Indianapolis? is it Boca raton? Is it Jersey City. I am so sick of these friggin detail-deficient square glass boxes. Blehhhh

How about given me some architecture that reflects the city of Philadelphia? . Give me a nice densely packed series of 7-9 story stone buildings. Give me 12th + Walnut not Kuala Lumpur.

Pennsgrant I completely agree with you but on the developers side, your not going to get an increase in rent if you pay $105 sf for the exterior of the building versus the $65 sf window wall systems that most of these buildings have on them.

[hammersklavier]

Some thoughts:

1. Have they sought an agreement with CSX for a grade crossing yet? The railroad has historically proven not to be a fan of grade crossings along that ROW; it was like pulling teeth to get the Race and Locust crossings to where they are now.

2. The JFK tower's excessively deep arcade will lead to a dull pedestrian experience; at the same time, that depth is retrofit-friendly. Perhaps it is a sacrifice we'll have to endure until the rest of that street can be properly urbanized--already something of a tall order!

3. Hopefully the success of this project will lead to development on the (also-challenging) 2001, 2101, and 2201 blocks of JFK.

[Skyscraper.Phanatic]

This Riverwalk development is not nearly as ambitious as the sleek towers proposed by another developer Chawla ( I think he went up the river, BTW). Similar to the new Comcast CITC tower the building closest to PECO would look much better if it were another 10 stories tall. If I had to choose one I would hope the CITC grows by about 150 - 200 feet. Unfortunately, we don't have the job creation like NYC they are proposing 70 story towers for JSQ in Jersey City which is nothing more than a giant Upper Darby. They also ahve plans for several 60 story condo towers in downtown Jersey City and Liberty Landing.

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

Im just not a fan of this Riverwalk development at all. If you took away the city surroundings from that rendering you would think this thing belonged in Anywhere USA. So vanilla, so disturbingly modern. Is it Myrtle Beach? is it Indianapolis? is it Boca raton? Is it Jersey City. I am so sick of these friggin detail-deficient square glass boxes. Blehhhh

How about given me some architecture that reflects the city of Philadelphia? . Give me a nice densely packed series of 7-9 story stone buildings. Give me 12th + Walnut not Kuala Lumpur.

It's not the greatest building in the world, but nothing is or we wouldn't have any new buildings. I think you need to take a look a Myrtle Beach or Boca Raton before calling it vanilla. How are densely packed 7-9 story buildings inherently more architecturally exciting? Is it the height that bothers you or the boxy gass sheath? How much more dense could this particular complex be? There's a parking garage at the corner of 12th and Walnut.

[Pennsgrant]

Originally Posted by philatonian

How are densely packed 7-9 story buildings inherently more architecturally exciting? Is it the height that bothers you or the boxy gass sheath? How much more dense could this particular complex be? There's a parking garage at the corner of 12th and Walnut.

Id like to cool it with the glass boxes for awhile. Especially on one of the few buildable lots along the Schuylkill.This is a prime location and Id like to see something more fitting. This development calls for mid rises that blend with the current old architecture.

I guess I'm OK with the taller tower which transitions Market/JFK the Skyscraper core. What I don't like is the wasted space and the sprawlers with the rest of the development.

It just doesn't work for me here. I'd prefer an old school. design.

[hammersklavier]

^^^ It's very difficult to argue of the new proposal that it has wasted space. Indeed, IMO it has some of the most efficient use of space imaginable.

That said, I am in agreement that the vast Park Towne Place complex represents quite a lot of wasted space desperately needing infill. Rapidly becoming even worse, however, is the Riverside Presby Apartments (23rd & Race) parking lot, blocking--somehow--nobody's view, sitting right next to one of the Schuylkill Banks' major access point, and AFAIK off the tax rolls, to boot.

Pipe dream, but I'd love to see redevelopment of at least that part of the parcel. (Perhaps in conjunct with raising money for renovations?)

[rricci]

Originally Posted by rricci

PENDOT presented once again at the LSNA meeting this past Tuesday night. They are putting out an RFP to replace the bridge caps along 676 VIne Street Expressway at 22, 21, 20. 19 and 18th streets with some changes to the BFP lanes and lots of beautification and greening. They are also planning to cap the space in front of the Free Library and increase the size of Shakespeare Park, centered around an oval. As far as the stairs to JFK, they chose 22nd street as it is the midpoint of their target which was 21st, 22nd and 23rd. At this point there will be stairs and a ramp starting at the NW corner of Cuthbert and 22nd Street (under the Septa tracks). They need an agreement from the owner of the property, which happens to be the same owner of the 23rd Street proposal for River Walk. Several folks at the meeting expressed the benefit of having access to JFK from 23rd also, and PENDOT is not opposed, but at this point does not have the room or money. My personal theory, however, is that the owner of the land will negotiate a stairway from 23rd to increase the accessibility and value of his River Walk development in exchange for an agreeable price on a ROW land lease. In any case, all 9 capping projects and the stairs are scheduled to begin next spring. The Vine Street Expressway project has a 4 year completion target date, while the BFP caps have a 1-2 year completion date.

My sincere apologies. In the above post please replace BFP with JFK. Also, to answer the question asked, caps merely means a new roadway bridge. It does not mean filling in the holes over VSE except the one in front of the Free Library as noted above.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Skyscraper.Phanatic

This Riverwalk development is not nearly as ambitious as the sleek towers proposed by another developer Chawla ( I think he went up the river, BTW). Similar to the new Comcast CITC tower the building closest to PECO would look much better if it were another 10 stories tall. If I had to choose one I would hope the CITC grows by about 150 - 200 feet. Unfortunately, we don't have the job creation like NYC they are proposing 70 story towers for JSQ in Jersey City which is nothing more than a giant Upper Darby. They also ahve plans for several 60 story condo towers in downtown Jersey City and Liberty Landing.

The Philadelphia River City project you refer to was never feasible in the first place - politically and legally speaking. There was some good financing for it, but the Chawla who you mentioned and some other folks sold the investors (foreign) snake oil. They lied and failed to mention that Council just passed a zoning bill that would preclude most of the proposed buildings. Other shady stuff as well. As a result, there are two people in prison now who were not just a few years ago.

Anyways, this project is more feasible.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

Im just not a fan of this Riverwalk development at all. If you took away the city surroundings from that rendering you would think this thing belonged in Anywhere USA. So vanilla, so disturbingly modern. Is it Myrtle Beach? is it Indianapolis? is it Boca raton? Is it Jersey City. I am so sick of these friggin detail-deficient square glass boxes. Blehhhh

How about given me some architecture that reflects the city of Philadelphia? . Give me a nice densely packed series of 7-9 story stone buildings. Give me 12th + Walnut not Kuala Lumpur.

I disagree. What could be more Philadelphia than a modern glass building stacked on top of a red brick base?

And while I dislike the brick base (which I see is not present in all of the buildings), I really like these towers, the layout, and the location.

One troubling point: Not sure about these developers. Even though they're from out of town (a rarity and good news that we're attracting national developers), they know the drill about meeting with neighborhood NIMBYs. But if you look at their website, you can see that this is their most ambitious project to date. Of course, it seems more realistic and doable, but I just hope they are legit and this project will happen, because I do like it.