CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

Alright, here are the images extracted from TUP's PDF.

Another SCB masterpiece I see (sarc).

It'll add density and that about it. A glass box with horizontal banding. Who here hasn't seen that?

[guesswho]

Originally Posted by george

Crain's & Curbed reported that there were 173 unsold condos @ 235 W Van Buren as of September 2013.

"CMK would be the first to break ground on a major downtown condo project since the housing bust, and is still contending with 173 unsold condos at 235 W Van Buren."

However, Crain's also reported that the building had 53 closed sales in 4Q 2013, so there are still at least 120+ unsold units (83% sold, 4+ years after construction completed).

Not sure if CMK is leasing those out and can thus count them as "sold", or what.....I know first hand there are a ton of units being rented in the building.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Mikemak27

If the address is 171 W. Van Buren, then it would be on the southeast corner of Van Buren and Wells. Wells is 200 West. There are a bunch of fast food lunch spots for loop office workers at that site. I say bulldoze the structure, and start with the caisson work already! But, there is the potential for condo owner NIMBYS at 235 W. Van Buren who will complain about their view being lost if this is built.

According the the city zoning map, its zoned DC 16. What does that mean for a proposal of this nature (40 story 225-275 units)?

Just my crude estimating, but it looks like after seeing the drawing it's only 21 floors of apartments with an amenities level(s) at the top. I guess the "lower tier" is totally parking with lobby and commercial on the ground floor. I looked at the zoning code, but it seems like they are way over the number of allowable units because of a small site?

[ChiHi]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Another SCB masterpiece I see (sarc).

It'll add density and that about it. A glass box with horizontal banding. Who here hasn't seen that?

My only NIMBY complaint would be about the loss of Chicken Planet in that building. Other than that looks good enough for that corner of the loop. And doesn't seem to have a big — parking podium so that's a pretty big plus.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

If they can fill up a pricey new building in that relatively crappy location, makes sense to try to plop a rental building nearby. It might help the area improve.

Well, they've got a great sales team... but it's a weird location, the last vestige of the "old Loop" as it was 25 years ago.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by ChiHi

My only NIMBY complaint would be about the loss of Chicken Planet in that building. Other than that looks good enough for that corner of the loop. And doesn't seem to have a big — parking podium so that's a pretty big plus.

No, but floors 2 - 11 seem to be parking. Look at the grating on the northern face.

Another one of my issues is the lack of active space at the "L" level. Kind of a wasted opportunity.

[jc5680]

edit, details delayed

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by guesswho

Crain's & Curbed reported that there were 173 unsold condos @ 235 W Van Buren as of September 2013.

"CMK would be the first to break ground on a major downtown condo project since the housing bust, and is still contending with 173 unsold condos at 235 W Van Buren."

However, Crain's also reported that the building had 53 closed sales in 4Q 2013, so there are still at least 120+ unsold units (83% sold, 4+ years after construction completed).

Not sure if CMK is leasing those out and can thus count them as "sold", or what.....I know first hand there are a ton of units being rented in the building.

^ Yes, this building is selling at a good clip but it is not sold out.

In addition, a good proportion of owners are investors who are leasing out their units, so I don't anticipate a lot of NIMBYism. Plus the best views are from the balconies looking south, so the 171 W Van Buren project shouldn't be much of an issue.

Thanks for posting those photos, Wierdaaron, and thanks to Tom in Chicago & BVictor for offering to help.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Wow, you know there's a glut when we start seeing proposals in the no-mans-land of the SW Loop...

To the contrary, I think this is an underserved market. Practically nothing has been built in this area for years, and even though this part of downtown isn't as — as Chicago's nascent Midtown Manhattan (River North/Streeterville/Mag Mile) there is still a market for rentals here. Some people like the access to the expressway as well as the short walk to Loop offices. You'll especially see a lot of new, out of town transplants looking for units here. That is in part why 235 W Van Buren has been so "successful" as a rental building.

As an owner in that building, I'm not concerned about competition (my unit is leased out and I'm getting a pretty good rent from a solid tenant). Unlike most neander-NIMBYs, I recognize that while new development nearby can weaken a landlord's leverage in the short run, in the long term it is great for the neighborhood. More units = more people living in the area = more services & more commercial activity = more desirability = higher rents.

[SamInTheLoop]

This being an underserved location is completely the way I look at it as well.........the location has enormous potential - I mean, how far away are you at this intersection from the center of gravity of the entire Chicago economy?

Some folks will always be attracted to paying up for the thoroughly established areas that are very conventionally perceived to be 'where the action is'....others prefer to spot the currently undervalued, where you can get in at a relative value type of price and watch a location's fundamental strengths drive market perceptions and valuations to catch-up to where they 'should' be.....

I do find it striking that even to this day, a lot of people are still caught up in the 'gotta be north of the river' perceptions from the 80's-90's......to me it's just very yesteryear, and upon moving to Chicago some 15 or so years ago, without ever having so muched as visited the city before, I never had that perception 'hangover' to begin with....

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Expect there be a public community for the 740 N. Rush hotel project in the near future.

It's being designed by NOOR Architects (http://norrlimited.com/default.aspx)

Brownstones to the west will remain.

A bit more than 600 rooms.

Interesting - so NORR can actually do decent work? I think they worked on both of AMLI's downtown projects. That's the Friedman connection - on the AMLI River North project - Friedman is apparently not the nefarious design influence (also witness the River North Hotel projects he and White Lodging have previously teamed up on - decent to pretty good) - that honor rests solely with Mr. Greg Putz and the rest of his completely hapless crew at AMLI....

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

This being an underserved location is completely the way I look at it as well.........the location has enormous potential - I mean, how far away are you at this intersection from the center of gravity of the entire Chicago economy?

Some folks will always be attracted to paying up for the thoroughly established areas that are very conventionally perceived to be 'where the action is'....others prefer to spot the currently undervalued, where you can get in at a relative value type of price and watch a location's fundamental strengths drive market perceptions and valuations to catch-up to where they 'should' be.....

I do find it striking that even to this day, a lot of people are still caught up in the 'gotta be north of the river' perceptions from the 80's-90's......to me it's just very yesteryear, and upon moving to Chicago some 15 or so years ago, without ever having so muched as visited the city before, I never had that perception 'hangover' to begin with....

I couldn't agree more with the "gotta be north of the river" mentality. I think this is a great spot for this development and I wish more developers would look south. I have thought for quite a long while that the city really undervalues pretty much all of the south loop land north of Roosevelt. I mean what's not to like... World class park to the east, Chicago river to the west, Commercial center to the north and beautiful Chicago historic district in the center.

[guesswho]

500 N. Lake Shore Drive

Anyone know when they plan on installing the "green wall" that fronts LSD? Is that still the plan? Will it just be some kind of cheap mossy like planting, or are we talking a Hanging Gardens of Babylon type planting? I'm assuming that Related didn't install anything last summer because the building was still technically under construction?

If I recall someone mentioned a "stip of protected dirt" where ivy was supposed to sprout up the wall.....

Thanks.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by rlw777

I couldn't agree more with the "gotta be north of the river" mentality. I think this is a great spot for this development and I wish more developers would look south. I have thought for quite a long while that the city really undervalues pretty much all of the south loop land north of Roosevelt. I mean what's not to like... World class park to the east, Chicago river to the west, Commercial center to the north and beautiful Chicago historic district in the center.

I know that people on this forum are totally dismissive about the schools issue, but it's there. The public schools north of the river got better sooner. The West Loop blew up when CPS opened Skinner West for neighborhood enrollment. Now look at South Loop elementary. It's become overcrowded - so much so that CPS moved the gifted center south half a mile to NTA elementary. Old Saint Mary's Catholic School at 15th and Michigan is in a building that is less than 4 years old, and they are already running at capacity.

The big development money follows the schools. New York cleaned up their public schools earlier than Chicago and now look at all the non-UES neighborhoods that are booming.

[wierdaaron]

171 W Van Buren approximate placement.



Totally guestimated the height, but it's likely the height and design are still subject to change.

[george]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Yes, this building is selling at a good clip but it is not sold out.

In addition, a good proportion of owners are investors who are leasing out their units, so I don't anticipate a lot of NIMBYism. Plus the best views are from the balconies looking south, so the 171 W Van Buren project shouldn't be much of an issue.

Thanks for posting those photos, Wierdaaron, and thanks to Tom in Chicago & BVictor for offering to help.

I'd check your facts TUP and others, you're misinformed. Let's clarify: From a developer standpoint, the building is sold out. However, as of today there are approximately 7 units for resale on the MLS and an addition 17 rental listings available. Only 1st time parking is available if that's what you mean by not sold out. BTW, the city views to the north are also killer.

[guesswho]

Originally Posted by george

I'd check your facts TUP and others, you're misinformed. Let's clarify: From a developer standpoint, the building is sold out. However, as of today there are approximately 7 units for resale on the MLS and an addition 17 rental listings available. Only 1st time parking is available if that's what you mean by not sold out. BTW, the city views to the north are also killer.

Why would Crain's report (with numbers from the developer) that there are 120+ unsold units @ 235, as of 4Q 2013, when you say (as noted in that CMK letter you posted) that the building is sold out from a developer's perspective? Crain's doesn't report on parking spaces, only actual units.

The building wouldn't have an on-site sales office open, if the building was truly sold out, right? At that point, it would just be re-sales....

And I've toured a north facing unit in the 35-40 floor range and can't agree with you more, the views around 5pm are killer indeed with all the city lights.

[george]

Not sure about the Crain's report, it is from 2013. CMK did confirm today 235 VB is sold out. Correct, only resales are currently available.

Next for CMK is 1345 S Wabash, a 15-story "mini-me" to 1333 S Wabash. Maybe the on-site sales office is promoting the new project.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

To the contrary, I think this is an underserved market. Practically nothing has been built in this area for years

That's why it's weird. Nothing has been built in this area for years... No residential, no office, no retail, no hotel... except 235W.

I mean, it's not far from areas that have developed (Wacker north of Monroe, historic rehabs on Dearborn, etc) but Van Buren is like the black hole of Loop development.

Some of my earliest memories of downtown are coming into the Loop on the Rock Island in the early 90s, and pretty much nothing has changed since then.

[wierdaaron]

From my occasional wandering around that area, that sounds true to me. There's a lot of old, undermaintained buildings and depressing vacant storefronts before you make it into the late 20th century zoo of corporate plazas.

With the parking and green areas around 311 S Wacker getting bought up for development, the area might be shifting toward more human-friendly design. Then storefronts can start turning around. Considering the presence to Willis Tower and Union Station being right across the river, dumping untold scores of confused/eager tourists into the city and onto Jackson, it's kind of strange how blah the area has been.