[Dartmouth] King's Wharf (16 Kings Wharf Place) | 85 & 49 m | 27 & 15 fl | U/C - Page 64

JET · #**1261** Posted **Dec 17, 2013, 6:02 PM**

interesting that the secondary road which goes over the train tracks was not required for the first buildings, I had thought that was a requirement, for emergency access

Dmajackson · #**1262** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 3:51 AM**

As I expected both the Chronicle Herald and AllNovaScotia.com had articles about this project tonight (only a day later than a curious guy in Calgary can get the info

).

Only a quote from McCluskey was new. She simply stated she has faith in the project and that shops have been opening on Portland Street in response to the ongoing development.

Oh and PS the full renderings will be released at the information meeting next month. Somebody please make sure to attend with a camera!

halifaxboyns · #**1263** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

TWO iconic towers of 134 & 109 METRES!

There's no full renderings currently available for the proposed towers but HRM Planning does have these basic renderings. The three shown will be 134 M / ~46 FL , 109 M / ~39 FL , and 85 M / ~27 FL! The heights are maximums and are measured from sea level which is approx. 10 feet lower than the boardwalk.

This is what happens when you get rid of the Brightwood Viewplane. I'm so glad that they did.
The fact the Councillor McClusky made the comment she did (that shops were opening and the project has been good) leads me to feel that she may be realizing that taller buildings aren't so bad because of the fact they are adding density. I will sit back and watch me be proven wrong, but we will see...

The fact the project has been revised up to 1900 dwelling units is impressive. If my memory is correct, that would put the population increase with this somewhere in the 3 to 4,000 range?

bluenoser · #**1264** Posted **Jan 20, 2014, 8:23 PM**

Just a reminder of the meeting tonight. I can't be there but it would be great if someone (or lots of people) from here could - to offer support and to check out the new renderings.

Quote:

Show Your Support For @kingswharffares. A Public Information Meeting Regarding Case #18312 Will Be Held Jan 20, @ 7:00pm @AlderneyLanding.

counterfactual · #**1265** Posted **Jan 21, 2014, 1:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

This is what happens when you get rid of the Brightwood Viewplane. I'm so glad that they did.
The fact the Councillor McClusky made the comment she did (that shops were opening and the project has been good) leads me to feel that she may be realizing that taller buildings aren't so bad because of the fact they are adding density. I will sit back and watch me be proven wrong, but we will see...

The fact the project has been revised up to 1900 dwelling units is impressive. If my memory is correct, that would put the population increase with this somewhere in the 3 to 4,000 range?

Why did it take McClusky 45 years, or however long she's been around Council, to figure out that density development, public/private investment, and buildings taller than three storeys, all in downtown Dartmouth would *harm* neighbourhoods?

Dumb.

Dmajackson · #**1266** Posted **Jan 21, 2014, 3:58 AM**

Apparently 250 people showed up to the meeting tonight which I think is the highest number I have ever heard of for a public consultation in Halifax. AllNovaScotia has a balanced article in tomorrow's edition for those with a subscription.

counterfactual · #**1267** Posted **Jan 22, 2014, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Apparently 250 people showed up to the meeting tonight which I think is the highest number I have ever heard of for a public consultation in Halifax. AllNovaScotia has a balanced article in tomorrow's edition for those with a subscription.

Unfortunately, the spin in other media, as usual, always focuses on complaints:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1095845/packed-house-to-discuss-changes-to-kings-wharf/

Quote:

“I’m very concerned about the amount of building and in-filling they’re intending to do now,” said Betsy Whelan, a resident of the downtown core.

“I just think it’s going overboard now. I like the park. I like the water. I like the status quo.”

Quote:

Sheila Jackson is concerned about the heights of the buildings.

“What they had originally, we just got used to. Now they’re going to make it bigger and better, new and improved and I’m not very happy about it,” she said.

Quote:

David Schlosberg lives downtown. He is not in favour of the changes, saying the development will affect his view.

Quote:

“In-fill is destruction to the ocean and the ocean is clearly a fish habitat. While you’re dumping tons of acidic rock into our harbour, I would like you think about what’s dying and what will die because of these actions,” the young woman said.

Quote:

Another man questioned why Fares Inc. was allowed the chance to alter its plan.

“Why weren’t all these add-ons dealt with in the original application?” he asked.

“Shouldn’t they just get one kick at the can? How many time are they going to come back with another amendment?”

There are like 7 quotes in that piece, and 5 of them are negative. They have one positive quote and a few neutral ones from McCloskey.

Of course, NIMBYs are everywhere. We just have the habit in Halifax of listening to them too much and stopping progress.

And one of the reasons for that, is media bias to focus on such complaints.

Let's hope Fares gets what he wants.

someone123 · #**1268** Posted **Jan 22, 2014, 2:38 AM**

Well, the big problem isn't the balance of comments, it's the fact that most of the comments are uninformed and go unchallenged.

The rhetorical add-on question has an obvious answer: the viewplanes changed.

IanWatson · #**1269** Posted **Jan 22, 2014, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, the big problem isn't the balance of comments, it's the fact that most of the comments are uninformed and go unchallenged.

The rhetorical add-on question has an obvious answer: the viewplanes changed.

Not to mention markets and conditions change. What good is it to say, "no Mr. Developer, you MUST build those office buildings that we allowed you to build five years ago even though they'll sit empty for the next ten years"?

worldlyhaligonian · #**1270** Posted **Jan 23, 2014, 12:40 AM**

Who are these people? Why is their armchair opinion relevant in any way?

Do they interview the most clueless people?

Why should HRM's future be dictated by the, possibly, least capable of making decisions?

OldDartmouthMark · #**1271** Posted **Jan 23, 2014, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Who are these people? Why is their armchair opinion relevant in any way?

Do they interview the most clueless people?

Why should HRM's future be dictated by the, possibly, least capable of making decisions?

I think this is just a side effect of "modern" journalism in general... sensationalize the negative to get more reaction and thus more "hits".

One of the negative quotes was followed by:
"But he said he found the crowd at the meeting was quite approving of the proposed changes."
...Which I think sums up the whole situation much better than all of the other comments combined.

This was a derelict part of Dartmouth that had been lost land for a long time since the marine slips shut down. I think that this development is key to the revitalization of downtown Dartmouth, and the developers should be given the red carpet treatment to build it as big and impressive as they are willing to spend the money to do. I believe that most people in the area think this way as well.

The whole Dartmouth Cove area is a diamond in the rough, and this should be the development that gets the momentum going for that area to realize its potential.

Jonovision · #**1272** Posted **Jan 23, 2014, 5:55 PM**

I went to the meeting and was really surprised so that so many people showed up. The presentation was really well done as well and I think it helped to rationalize the changes. Each of the 5 changes they are asking for had legitimate reasoning behind them. To me it showed that the developer has been really thinking about the future of Kings Wharf and takes pride in what he is creating. I think the presentation also helped to diffuse a lot of the potential anger that you would normally expect at these meetings. A number of people had accidentally signed up to speak and when they came down they said that they had come in expecting to not like the new proposal but were convinced in the end that it was a better plan for the community.

halifaxboyns · #**1273** Posted **Jan 23, 2014, 6:21 PM**

Jono's comment is really one that should've been in the article; but obviously (and I think we all agree) the press is there to sell a story and negative stories tend to get more readers.

One of things we are doing out here in Calgary is realizing that Development is all about engagement. Our General Manager (Rollin Stanley) and I have been working on a film festival we call Baconfest - showing the films of Edward Bacon, the famous US Urban Planner who was in charge of Philadelphia. He was the only planner to appear on the cover of time magazine and yes, he is Kevin Bacon's dad. But these movie nights (3 so far, 4 more to go) have created and stirred something. So far, I've had about 60 people come up to me and say - don't let this engagement and discussion die and we even said to the group last night - what do you want next? Our first night, we had almost 300 people show up. Night 2 about 200 and last night 225. That's quite impressive.

Really, this developer has shown that his engagement and discussion about this project has changed minds about the downtown. I think you have to look at the article and compare it from the views of when they were seeking approval and to me there has been a huge mind shift for downtown Dartmouth. There is a new energy there - yes, there are still some who aren't on board but you will never get anyone. Case in point: Look at the opinion change of Councillor McClusky, it's mind blowing. I felt like she was going to be the death of Dartmouth for the longest time, but she's mellowed and is getting on board.

One of the things the baconfest event is making me realize in urban planning is that we are all good (as a profession) about talking vision and the future, but we seem to forget to celebrate our successes is the now. King's Wharf is a huge success for Downtown Dartmouth and that should be celebrated (particularly for the change of mind/opinion). That alone, is worth an article or five in a paper or a couple nights of interviews on TV.

JET · #**1274** Posted **Jan 23, 2014, 7:56 PM**

The people that I have talked to in Dartmouth all are very supportive of Kings Wharf, of course I don't know anybody in Admiralty Place.

fenwick16 · #**1275** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 3:07 AM**

The developers presentation - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/applications/documents/18312DeveloperPresentation.pdf - from the January 20th, 2014 public meeting is posted on the HRM case details webpage http://www.halifax.ca/planning/applications/Case18312Details.php (which was updated on January 30th, 2014) .

The new proposal is on the right side of the image. I like the lagoon area and boardwalk around the development. Perhaps some marine animals such as dolphins, which have been seen in the harbour, will be attracted to the open lagoon. It would be like a natural aquarium.

Nouvellecosse · #**1276** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 5:07 AM**

Wow, I didn't know we got dolphins. I'd love to see that!

xanaxanax · #**1277** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 5:23 AM**

.

fenwick16 · #**1278** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 5:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Wow, I didn't know we got dolphins. I'd love to see that!

According to this Nova Scotia fishing forum - http://novascotiafishing.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2385-bluefin-in-halifax-harbour/ - there have been reports of tuna, whales, sharks, porpoises, seals and dolphins (etc.) in Halifax Harbour. Now that the Harbour has been cleaned up, it seems as though various marine animals are returning (or can be seen in the clearer water).

Here are a few YouTube links showing porpoises and a whale in the Halifax Harbour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHISgqr8hgg (some close-ups of a couple of porpoises at 1:35 - 1:45 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZYzojPaDQ (porpoise in the Northwest Arm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlID12eaeM (reportedly this shows a Minke whale in the Harbour)

There are several YouTube links of dolphins following whale-watching boats off the shore of Nova Scotia:
Here is a close-up sighting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkk_bgVAdQM

counterfactual · #**1279** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 6:13 AM**

What an awesome rebuilding of a dreary and polluted part of the harbour!

So long as there is public access, and not a private enclosure of the waterfront, how could one oppose this? Seriously?

Nouvellecosse · #**1280** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 6:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

According to this Nova Scotia fishing forum - http://novascotiafishing.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2385-bluefin-in-halifax-harbour/ - there have been reports of tuna, whales, sharks, porpoises, seals and dolphins (etc.) in Halifax Harbour. Now that the Harbour has been cleaned up it seems as though various marine animals are returning (or can be seen in the clearer water).

Here are a few YouTube links showing porpoises and a whale in Halifax Harbour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHISgqr8hgg (some close-ups at 1:35 - 1:45 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZYzojPaDQ (porpoise in the Northwest Arm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlID12eaeM (reportedly this shows a Minke whale in the Harbour)

That's pretty exciting. I saw a sea otter once and some cool aquatic birds, but never anything like that.