Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Meraki

As far as has been announced so far, there will be 4 lines.

Expo Line: Waterfront-King George
Millennium Line: Waterfront-Lougheed
Evergreen Line: VCC-Clark-Lafarge Lake-Douglas
Canada Line: Waterfront-YVR/Richmond-Brighouse

While there are four lines on paper I would say that the Millennium/expo lines are as much two lines as the Canada line is. Honestly I would consider the millennium line the section from vcc-clark to columbia and seeing as the new "evergreen line" is a majority of that section I personally think that it would make a lot more sense to call the line from vcc-clark to lafarge lake the millennium line.

The only reason that this extension (which is what the evergreen "line" actually is. It's still a very important project thought) is called the evergreen line is because the name comes from when it was a separate LRT line.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by bardak

While there are four lines on paper I would say that the Millennium/expo lines are as much two lines as the Canada line is. Honestly I would consider the millennium line the section from vcc-clark to columbia and seeing as the new "evergreen line" is a majority of that section I personally think that it would make a lot more sense to call the line from vcc-clark to lafarge lake the millennium line.

Yes, there is a distinction to be made between the physical track layout and the routes taken by trains. "Line" as it's come to be used by Translink refers to train routing, not track layout.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yes, there is a distinction to be made between the physical track layout and the routes taken by trains. "Line" as it's come to be used by Translink refers to train routing, not track layout.

Agreed, and I think the whole system would be easier for occasional riders to understand if the Canada Line was called two lines - e.g. Airport Line (Waterfront to YVR) and Canada Line (Waterfront to Brighouse).

[officedweller]

Agreed. It's an inconsistency in the terminology that was discussed when the Canada Line was being constructed / opened. I suppose it's cheaper for the private partner to refer one name than two on signage, materials, etc.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yet the Port Mann's expansion was funded handily by the province while the Broadway Line hangs in the balance, just like the planet's climate/future... Why is it common sense to hide your head in the ground?

I wasn't even against the HWY1/PM expansion, but when you see this kind of hypocrisy, it's infuriating.

Don't be melodramatic... planet's climate/future *sigh*. If you take all the carbon emissions total for everything in Metro-Vancouver and you make it 0, meaning you absolutely wipe all of Metro-Vancouver off the face of the Earth, after 10 years passes so by 2024, you'll have saved the same amount of "carbon emissions" as the fifth largest city in China puts out in less than 1 year.

I completely agree with the hypocrisy argument but the "climate" argument is just bunk and a joke. The statistics prove we don't actually matter.

People often say "Look Canada statistically is 14.6 tons of CO emissions per capita" vs China which is less at 6.2!!!

But you never hear those people actually do the math...

Canada: 14.6 x 34.88 million = 509 million CO emission tons
China: 6.2 x 1.35 BILLION = 8.37 BILLION CO emission tons

So for those doing math, you take all of Canada's emissions in a year and it = 6% of China. And how much of that 6% is Vancouver?

We don't matter.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Well, in the City of Vancouver the average emissions are 4t per capita. Already lower than the Chinese average. It's likely a fair bit higher in the burbs. Coal power is a great thing eh?

If you take a small car like my old VW GTI, 4t/yr is a reasonable estimate of emissions. My new Volt is closer to 0.9t/yr. Likely lower than using diesel buses.

[Canadian Mind]

Just for shits and giggles, I wonder how much CO2 I produce... I burn approx 6000 litres of diesel per year driving my truck around. I have coal fired electricity. I enjoy BBQing copious amounts of red meat every day. I also enjoy bonfires... Sometimes I'll go through a cord of wood a night. Worth mentioning that I am a bit of a heat bug and like to keep my house between 23 and 25. When it's -40 outside, with my poorly insulated house, that furnace never stops running.

I don't live in Vancouver though.

[WarrenC12]

^^^ Sounds like you will be in the poorhouse if gas prices keep increasing.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

^^^ Sounds like you will be in the poorhouse if gas prices keep increasing.

I'm doing okay for myself so far. Things could certainly be worse. You are right though, gas prices do keep increasing. But so far it is still far cheaper for me to burn the extra gas than it is to do the extra insulating of the house. That said, I intend on getting to it eventually.

I received a pm from quobobo, I attempted to respond, but he doesn't allow pms to be sent to him. So I'm posting it on here to carry on the coversation. If he wants it removed I can do so... Just send me another pm.

Originally Posted by quobobo

So you're basically bragging about how much carbon you emit? Must have taken a lot of work to find the best way to come across as an asshole who doesn't care about others...

Just trying to give folks in the thread a sense of perspective. No matter how much you try to eliminate your emissions, or otherwise be proud of your reduction of .5 tonnes per year, it takes just one person to make up for the savings of dozens.

That said, I am legitamately curious about how much I produce. Aside from running my house heat high and enjoying the fire when I can, much of it unavoidable.

Just realised how off topic we are. Related question then - at what stage of the process in the Broadway extension? It's been a while since I've heard any real news about it.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Just trying to give folks in the thread a sense of perspective. No matter how much you try to eliminate your emissions, or otherwise be proud of your reduction of .5 tonnes per year, it takes just one person to make up for the savings of dozens.

I don't get people who fret so much over how much their carbon emissions are. It's not like you, living in a first world country, are going to any difference whatsoever to overall carbon emissions considering the population growth and industrialisation of the third world. Even if carbon emissions caused "global warming" I personally would not care at all.

My emission levels are probably off the chart. I have a Viper and a Dodge Ram in Vancouver and an F-150 in Colombia and take 3-4 round trip flights per month.

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Just realised how off topic we are. Related question then - at what stage of the process in the Broadway extension? It's been a while since I've heard any real news about it.

I don't think theres anything official even being proposed at this stage. Nothing but years and years of studies which have all confirmed what we already know: it should be underground and SkyTrain.

[Alex Mackinnon]

So thanks to the prisoner's dilemma we're screwed. Great. Way to take the moral high ground...

We should reduce our carbon emissions in the first world because we can afford to. If we make it cheap to do so, then other countries with less resources to expend will follow.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

So thanks to the prisoner's dilemma we're screwed. Great. Way to take the moral high ground...

We should reduce our carbon emissions in the first world because we can afford to. If we make it cheap to do so, then other countries with less resources to expend will follow.

I think the economic argument is strong to reduce carbon emissions here. We have some of the cheapest, emissions free electricity here (hydro) and some of the most expensive gasoline...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I don't get people who fret so much over how much their carbon emissions are. It's not like you, living in a first world country, are going to any difference whatsoever to overall carbon emissions considering the population growth and industrialisation of the third world. Even if carbon emissions caused "global warming" I personally would not care at all.

You personally don't make much of a difference. The big problem is that we have a continent full of people who think just like you. What do you suppose we can do about that?

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I don't get people who fret so much over how much their carbon emissions are. It's not like you, living in a first world country, are going to any difference whatsoever to overall carbon emissions considering the population growth and industrialisation of the third world. Even if carbon emissions caused "global warming" I personally would not care at all.

My emission levels are probably off the chart. I have a Viper and a Dodge Ram in Vancouver and an F-150 in Colombia and take 3-4 round trip flights per month.

Collective action problems, on the scale of cities or countries, typically require compulsion in the form of taxes and laws. But you can't get those taxes and laws passed in a democracy without some form of informed public consent.

If everyone thinks their emissions don't matter, then there's no pressure on local or national government to do anything. And nothing happens.

Further up the chain, if there's no pressure between countries to control emissions, then no government will do anything, including developing nations. Change in this case really does start with individual attitudes in rich democracies, trite as it may sound. (Apologies for the thread digression.)

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

So thanks to the prisoner's dilemma we're screwed. Great. Way to take the moral high ground...

We should reduce our carbon emissions in the first world because we can afford to. If we make it cheap to do so, then other countries with less resources to expend will follow.

Except we can't afford it and some of us are not willing to pay more in order to do it. I do not want to be paying 30-50% more for gas and electricity. More taxes and regulation are not the answer.

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Except we can't afford it and some of us are not willing to pay more in order to do it. I do not want to be paying 30-50% more for gas and electricity. More taxes and regulation are not the answer.

"Hey guys, I do things that harm other people and I don't want to compensate them for it!"

Your insistence that externalities not be priced is in direct opposition to not-even-remotely-controversial mainstream economics.

[jlousa]

Guys back on topic now. next post gets deleted, and any after that gets punished.

[city-dweller]

Background: I went to an open house by David Ebby the Pt Grey MLA about the Jericho Lands. The only confirmation he could get from from the provincial government on their section(west) was that they plan to do no development or look at development until the leases with the Park's Board and West Point Grey Academy (private school) are up for renewal in 2020. However, it is no secret that the park's board wants to move the community center to 8th ave from 2nd if development is allowed on the northwest section. The federal government has transferred their section of the land(east) from DND to the Canadian Land Corporation. Discussions are underway with First Nations to develop the land.

Idea: There is a massive amount of density coming to the Feds part. Even if it takes twenty years to build out the entire Jericho lands, would it make more sense to move the Alma Broadway Line station to:

1. SW corner Alma and W B-way
2. Eight and Highbury
3. Or further up eighth

Thoughts?

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

According to the Evergreen docs, when the extension is finished the entire line from VCC-Clark through Lougheed to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will become "The Millennium Line".

The existing Expo line from Waterfront to King George will not be changed, so those trains will still be Expo line trains "to King George" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal.

The trains from Waterfront to Lougheed (via New Westminster and Braid) will become Expo line trains "to Lougheed" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal. Expo trains will not run west of Lougheed in regular passenger service.

Therefore the Expo line and Millennium line will run as separate and independent lines, with only Lougheed and Commercial/Broadway stations being the interchange points for passengers between the two lines.

Lougheed is the interchange point for trains, so access to/from the Edmonds maintenance centre can be made by trains on either the Expo or Millennium lines.

When The "Broadway-UBC" extension is built west of VCC-Clark, it too will be part of the "The Millennium Line" when it opens.

Where was this update? As far as I'm aware, the segment between Lougheed and Commercial-Broadway will become a part of the Evergreen Line - with Millennium Line service operating on the Expo to Lougheed via Columbia.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Where was this update? As far as I'm aware, the segment between Lougheed and Commercial-Broadway will become a part of the Evergreen Line - with Millennium Line service operating on the Expo to Lougheed via Columbia.

Actually it makes sense to keep the Millennium Line name for the extension, it will save a lot of money and work to repaint and rebrand the existing Millennium stations - they're all yellow with "Millennium" printed on them somewhere.

And I prefer the Expo having two ends, similar to Canada Line. Simplifies the system actually.