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  #7681  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 3:45 PM
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  #7682  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 4:59 PM
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Don't miss the McMahon Stadium! a must see for any tourist...
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  #7683  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 9:07 PM
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Don't miss the McMahon Stadium! a must see for any tourist...
The best is the fine print: "Ask anyone for directions, or call the White Hatters at..."

Reminds me of the directions for getting to the landmark Tadich Grill in San Francisco (it's a super old-school place - think Caesar's steakhouse but for seafood, and is the oldest restaurant west of the Mississippi):
Quote:
If you're coming by taxi:
Hop in and say "Take me to Tadich Grill". This should be enough. We have been at this location on California Street between Battery and Front since 1967. If the cab driver doesn’t know Tadich Grill, get out of the cab immediately!
     
     
  #7684  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 9:34 PM
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What's so funny is they're selling the stadium as a tourist attraction, as though just showing up and looking at a probably empty stadium would be a worthy afternoon trip.
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  #7685  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
What's so funny is they're selling the stadium as a tourist attraction, as though just showing up and looking at a probably empty stadium would be a worthy afternoon trip.
Don't they do this in Beijing with the Birdnest? Granted, that one is a lot more interesting to look at than ours.
     
     
  #7686  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 11:26 PM
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Don't they do this in Beijing with the Birdnest? Granted, that one is a lot more interesting to look at than ours.
They were doing the last time I was there, but that was four and a half years ago, so I don't know if it's still open for tours or not.
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  #7687  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 6:39 AM
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Downtown and Beltline residents, used to squeezing onto buses filled with suburban commuters, should get some bus routes of their own, says a new transit planners’ report.

The idea for three urban transit loops — one up and down 17th Street, one from Mission to Eau Claire, and a circle route around downtown and Beltline — stems from a paper that frowns on a more expensive transit solution for Calgary’s dense core...
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...ly+routes+report+says/9517904/story.html
I like this idea a lot. I hope they plan to have reduced fares on these routes, however. I wouldn’t feel very good about paying $3 for a trip that was only a ten blocks, but I could see people taking two or three trips in one night if they were out on the town. Would a $1 per ride be enough? They should be able to bring in more advertising revenue from these busses as well, and maybe get some BRZ and corporate sponsorship as well. Most busses spend most of their time driving through sparsely populated residential neighbourhoods, but these would loop continuously though dense and high visibility parts of downtown and the Beltline.
     
     
  #7688  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 12:11 PM
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To reduce fares you would have to find some other outside subsidy. Not sure the BRZs would go for it. It is different than the free fare zone which imposes close to no operational costs on the most efficient transit mode.
     
     
  #7689  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan83 View Post
I like this idea a lot. I hope they plan to have reduced fares on these routes, however. I wouldn’t feel very good about paying $3 for a trip that was only a ten blocks, but I could see people taking two or three trips in one night if they were out on the town. Would a $1 per ride be enough? They should be able to bring in more advertising revenue from these busses as well, and maybe get some BRZ and corporate sponsorship as well. Most busses spend most of their time driving through sparsely populated residential neighbourhoods, but these would loop continuously though dense and high visibility parts of downtown and the Beltline.
We are already 1/3 of the way there. Downtown to Mission is pretty much taken care of by Route 17, which is steadily growing in popularity.
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  #7690  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 8:30 PM
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I have a recollection of a downtown loop maybe 15 to 20 years ago. It was aimed at seniors and they had a low-floor community bus (Orion II) driving the route.

Anyone know when they stopped this route? ( did it stop?)
     
     
  #7691  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RicoLance21 View Post
We are already 1/3 of the way there. Downtown to Mission is pretty much taken care of by Route 17, which is steadily growing in popularity.
17 is quite a nice route as a supplement to route 3. In comparison, there are 4 - 5 Route 3s for each 17 in a given time window. Route 17's Mission riders are generated by residents being used to the 3 frequency. When the 17 comes by its a bonus, just like the 3 but with space.

I like it when routes overlap like that to increase frequency for central commuters. The issue on 4th is the reliability of the 3 in rush-hour is not great: it suffers largely from "bus-bunching".

I was walking from 23rd Ave to 7th down 4th Street at 8am on a weekday. I got to 7th (15min walk) without seeing any bus. Then 4 articulated #3s showed up simultaneously at TD Square and caused abject chaos as 300 people got off all the buses at once.

Looking forward to the bus-lane idea that could help in the congested areas.
     
     
  #7692  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2014, 9:17 PM
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The first of the latest order of 40' buses that CT has bought have hit the streets officially as of today. Here is one of them (along with the oldest bus in the fleet as a juxtaposition):


Source
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  #7693  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2014, 3:09 PM
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Any word on results (even preliminary) on the pilot project with natural gas buses?
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  #7694  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2014, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Any word on results (even preliminary) on the pilot project with natural gas buses?
Calgary transit testified in front of the provincial legislature committee on Resource Stewardship about natural gas buses in the fall, and if I remember correctly gave out some tidbits.
     
     
  #7695  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 5:06 AM
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Right you are!


(heavily chopped)
Quote:
If you operate a diesel fuel fleet,
generally your diesel fuel has to get delivered to you, and it has to
get delivered to you by truck. In most cases, certainly in Calgary
anyway, we rarely carry more than two days’ worth of fuel at any
of our facilities. So if we have a big snowstorm or any real
problems, the reliability of the delivery of fuel becomes an issue;
therefore, the reliability of delivery of service becomes an issue as
well.
We also found from CNG implementation that environmental
benefits are obviously improved, certainly over our older bus
engines, quite significantly. The emissions compared to our older
buses were definitely improved. Compared to our newer buses,
however, it was not quite so much. There were slight improvements
in carbon dioxide emissions, but the biggest improvements
were in nitrous oxides emissions, actually.
The noise of the CNG engines was generally considered to be
far superior compared to our diesel engines as well. Certainly,
when the bus was sitting and standing, just idling, the engine is
about 10 times quieter than a diesel engine as it stands. When the
bus is running along the roads, then it’s not quite such an improvement
because the majority of the noise then associated with the
bus is more the bus actually just physically moving, so the
transmission and the wheels and the road, those kinds of things.

The vehicles currently in Calgary today, the newer ones: we
spend upwards of half a million dollars a year just cleaning a filter
system associated with the exhaust to allow it to meet the
environmental requirements. Those kinds of filter systems are not
needed on CNGs because that fuel burns a lot cleaner to start with.
So from a maintenance perspective there are a lot of advantages to
moving to CNG as well.

Lastly, what we also took great favour on with CNG is that it
was a local fuel. In all
likelihood – I’m jumping the 🞵🞵🞵 a little bit – we will move down
a path of implementation of CNG. What that means for us right
now is that our next bus maintenance facility, which we’re looking
to complete in about the 2017-2018 window, will likely be a
CNG-compliant facility. Right now a
diesel bus costs about 58 cents a kilometre to operate. CNG buses
operate at around the same price as that today, but that’s with
CNG at an off-the-rack price. That’s probably double what we
would expect to negotiate as a price.
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDAR_fi...28%5Csession_1%5C20131118_1819_01_rs.pdf
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  #7696  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2014, 6:28 AM
Allan83 Allan83 is offline
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
To reduce fares you would have to find some other outside subsidy. Not sure the BRZs would go for it. It is different than the free fare zone which imposes close to no operational costs on the most efficient transit mode.
I think we need to think about these routes in a different way, though. On a “normal” bus route Joe Citizen catches the bus in Beddington, for example, and stays on it for 30 or 45 minutes until it gets to downtown, and then he does the same thing in reverse after work, so let’s say he’s paying $3 for about a 30 - 45 minute ride. The downtown routes would function very differently, and I think we should try to make the fares reflect this. Here are few examples to illustrate my point:

Example 1.
Let’s say Suzie Q lives in the Beltline used to walk to work at the newly built 3 Eau Claire building. It’s a 2 km walk and she found it just too far to walk every day in work clothes. Luckily for Suzie the new inner city bus route (ICB) has a stop just a couple of blocks from her condo, and it drops her off just a couple of blocks from where she works. Suzie also likes to hop the ICB at lunch and zip down to the Core to do some shopping. She also takes it to the health centre on 12th when she has an appointment, and sometimes she uses it to go for lunch in Mission or on 17th. After work she hops an ICB from 3EC to Mission where she has a short walk to the Talisman Centre where she works out after work. After that she takes the ICB back to her beltline condo for supper. Later on in the evening Suzie sometimes hops an ICB to The Pint on west 17th to meet friends, and then catches another one back home at the end of the night. (Also note that while Suzie is heading to Eau Claire to for her work people who live in Eau Claire and work in the Beltline are taking the same bus going the other way, and likewise some people who live in Mission may well take it to work in the Beltline or downtown. There is residential, retail, and office space all along these routes and people will be going in different directions all the time for many different reasons.)
-In this admittedly somewhat extreme scenario Suzie takes 7 trips in one day, but none of them involve rides longer than maybe 5 or 10 minutes. She’s probably spends less time on the bus overall than Joe Citizen, but she takes 7 trips to his 2. This is a high use example and anyone who actually did this would probably buy a bus pass, but I think there would be a lot of people who would take these same kinds of trips but less frequently.

Example 2.
🞵🞵🞵🞵 and his girlfriend Jane live and work in the burbs, but 🞵🞵🞵🞵 likes to take his gal downtown for a night out. They like to have a bit of wine with their meal so 🞵🞵🞵🞵 doesn’t like to drive, and he doesn’t like the hassle of trying to find a place to park, and not being able to get around easily once he’s downtown. Luckily for 🞵🞵🞵🞵 the new ICB routes have solved his problem. After work 🞵🞵🞵🞵 and Jane catch the LRT to downtown where they transfer to an ICB which takes them to their favourite restaurant in Mission. After dinner they hop an ICB to Central Memorial where they take a digestive stroll and watch the fountains play for a while. Then they hop the ICBs to Eau Clarie to feed the geese, or perhaps to the Simmons building where they like to sit on the roof and enjoy and Phil and Sebastian’s coffee while they watch the sun going down, or the people milling about by the river below. Later on in the evening they sometimes catch an ICB back to the Republik on 17th to catch a show, and after that they catch an ICB back to 7th where they take the LRT back to the burbs.
- In this scenario they take a longish LRT ride to get to downtown, and then a series of short hops on the ICBs once they’re there. Something that might work well for this kind of use is a half day pass, or perhaps an evening pass, for something like $5, or perhaps a bit more. $5 may work better for an evening pass because it would be for a shorter time and in off peak usage hours when there is a lot of excess capacity.

Example 3.
Klaus and Heidi are tourists who are staying in a downtown hotel with their two children aged 7 and 9. They want to see downtown Calgary, but with two children they don’t want to do a large amount of walking. Luckily for them the new ICB routes can help them out. They pick up some pamphlets from the hotel which lead them on a self guided tour of downtown and the Beltline as seen from the ICB routes. From there they can make decisions on what they want to see, and where they might want to eat or just have coffee and a snack, or where they might want to shop. The options for places to get off the bus and visit include the Calgary Tower, Devonian Gardens, Olympic Plaza, River Walk, Mewata area including the skateboard park, various galleries including the new gallery at the old science centre site, Prince’s Island, the Peace Bridge, the Glenbow Museum, the National Music Centre, the Stampede grounds, and many more. The possible restaurants and coffee shops are too numerous to mention.
- The difference here is that tourists could use the ICBs to sight see and check out places they may want to visit before doing the short hops from place to place in the inner city. Some sort of special ICB pass for tourists might be possible, but it if the fare was only $1 then it might be just as easy to pay the four loonies and go.

If there was a different fare structure for these routes the some thought would have to be put into how to mesh that with the full fare rides. My first thought is that the ICBs would accept bus passes and transfers, but they wouldn’t give out transfers. You couldn’t pay a $1 fare and then transfer to a full fare bus, for example. But they would sell bus tickets for the standard $3, which the driver would then punch and which would then work essentially like a standard transfer. Maybe there could also be a different kind of single use ICB transfer – i.e. only good for ICBs and not valid for 90 minutes - which you could ask for with a $1 fare.

There are just some preliminary thoughts.

Last edited by Allan83; Feb 23, 2014 at 7:12 AM.
     
     
  #7697  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2014, 6:13 PM
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Why did Spring2008 get suspended?
     
     
  #7698  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2014, 3:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
Why did Spring2008 get suspended?
I don't know if it was the only reason, but he was being, let's just say, 'unfairly negative' about Edmonton in the 'What would Canadian cities look like as larger versions of themselves?' thread.
     
     
  #7699  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2014, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan83 View Post
I think we need to think about these routes in a different way, though. On a “normal” bus route Joe Citizen catches the bus in Beddington, for example, and stays on it for 30 or 45 minutes until it gets to downtown, and then he does the same thing in reverse after work, so let’s say he’s paying $3 for about a 30 - 45 minute ride. The downtown routes would function very differently, and I think we should try to make the fares reflect this. Here are few examples to illustrate my point:

Example 1.
Let’s say Suzie Q lives in the Beltline used to walk to work at the newly built 3 Eau Claire building. It’s a 2 km walk and she found it just too far to walk every day in work clothes. Luckily for Suzie the new inner city bus route (ICB) has a stop just a couple of blocks from her condo, and it drops her off just a couple of blocks from where she works. Suzie also likes to hop the ICB at lunch and zip down to the Core to do some shopping. She also takes it to the health centre on 12th when she has an appointment, and sometimes she uses it to go for lunch in Mission or on 17th. After work she hops an ICB from 3EC to Mission where she has a short walk to the Talisman Centre where she works out after work. After that she takes the ICB back to her beltline condo for supper. Later on in the evening Suzie sometimes hops an ICB to The Pint on west 17th to meet friends, and then catches another one back home at the end of the night. (Also note that while Suzie is heading to Eau Claire to for her work people who live in Eau Claire and work in the Beltline are taking the same bus going the other way, and likewise some people who live in Mission may well take it to work in the Beltline or downtown. There is residential, retail, and office space all along these routes and people will be going in different directions all the time for many different reasons.)
-In this admittedly somewhat extreme scenario Suzie takes 7 trips in one day, but none of them involve rides longer than maybe 5 or 10 minutes. She’s probably spends less time on the bus overall than Joe Citizen, but she takes 7 trips to his 2. This is a high use example and anyone who actually did this would probably buy a bus pass, but I think there would be a lot of people who would take these same kinds of trips but less frequently.

Example 2.
🞵🞵🞵🞵 and his girlfriend Jane live and work in the burbs, but 🞵🞵🞵🞵 likes to take his gal downtown for a night out. They like to have a bit of wine with their meal so 🞵🞵🞵🞵 doesn’t like to drive, and he doesn’t like the hassle of trying to find a place to park, and not being able to get around easily once he’s downtown. Luckily for 🞵🞵🞵🞵 the new ICB routes have solved his problem. After work 🞵🞵🞵🞵 and Jane catch the LRT to downtown where they transfer to an ICB which takes them to their favourite restaurant in Mission. After dinner they hop an ICB to Central Memorial where they take a digestive stroll and watch the fountains play for a while. Then they hop the ICBs to Eau Clarie to feed the geese, or perhaps to the Simmons building where they like to sit on the roof and enjoy and Phil and Sebastian’s coffee while they watch the sun going down, or the people milling about by the river below. Later on in the evening they sometimes catch an ICB back to the Republik on 17th to catch a show, and after that they catch an ICB back to 7th where they take the LRT back to the burbs.
- In this scenario they take a longish LRT ride to get to downtown, and then a series of short hops on the ICBs once they’re there. Something that might work well for this kind of use is a half day pass, or perhaps an evening pass, for something like $5, or perhaps a bit more. $5 may work better for an evening pass because it would be for a shorter time and in off peak usage hours when there is a lot of excess capacity.

Example 3.
Klaus and Heidi are tourists who are staying in a downtown hotel with their two children aged 7 and 9. They want to see downtown Calgary, but with two children they don’t want to do a large amount of walking. Luckily for them the new ICB routes can help them out. They pick up some pamphlets from the hotel which lead them on a self guided tour of downtown and the Beltline as seen from the ICB routes. From there they can make decisions on what they want to see, and where they might want to eat or just have coffee and a snack, or where they might want to shop. The options for places to get off the bus and visit include the Calgary Tower, Devonian Gardens, Olympic Plaza, River Walk, Mewata area including the skateboard park, various galleries including the new gallery at the old science centre site, Prince’s Island, the Peace Bridge, the Glenbow Museum, the National Music Centre, the Stampede grounds, and many more. The possible restaurants and coffee shops are too numerous to mention.
- The difference here is that tourists could use the ICBs to sight see and check out places they may want to visit before doing the short hops from place to place in the inner city. Some sort of special ICB pass for tourists might be possible, but it if the fare was only $1 then it might be just as easy to pay the four loonies and go.

If there was a different fare structure for these routes the some thought would have to be put into how to mesh that with the full fare rides. My first thought is that the ICBs would accept bus passes and transfers, but they wouldn’t give out transfers. You couldn’t pay a $1 fare and then transfer to a full fare bus, for example. But they would sell bus tickets for the standard $3, which the driver would then punch and which would then work essentially like a standard transfer. Maybe there could also be a different kind of single use ICB transfer – i.e. only good for ICBs and not valid for 90 minutes - which you could ask for with a $1 fare.

There are just some preliminary thoughts.
I think once Connect is implemented (end 2014) this will be much easier to implement than it is now with the current system. Particularly with the tourists the hotel would be able to give/sell them a smart card pre-loaded for the duration of their stay, or they would be able to get the app on a compatible phone (NFC) and have the hotel load the credit there.

The Connect system will allow flexibility within the fare system that cannot be achieved with the current cash/paper fare system.
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  #7700  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2014, 1:30 AM
AgentGibb AgentGibb is offline
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Originally Posted by Allan83 View Post
I think we need to think about these routes in a different way, though. On a “normal” bus route Joe Citizen catches the bus in Beddington, for example, and stays on it for 30 or 45 minutes until it gets to downtown, and then he does the same thing in reverse after work, so let’s say he’s paying $3 for about a 30 - 45 minute ride. The downtown routes would function very differently, and I think we should try to make the fares reflect this. Here are few examples to illustrate my point:

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.

If there was a different fare structure for these routes the some thought would have to be put into how to mesh that with the full fare rides. My first thought is that the ICBs would accept bus passes and transfers, but they wouldn’t give out transfers. You couldn’t pay a $1 fare and then transfer to a full fare bus, for example. But they would sell bus tickets for the standard $3, which the driver would then punch and which would then work essentially like a standard transfer. Maybe there could also be a different kind of single use ICB transfer – i.e. only good for ICBs and not valid for 90 minutes - which you could ask for with a $1 fare.

There are just some preliminary thoughts.
I'm not convinced that we'd need a different fare structure for these routes. I think these are examples of situations where the already-existing $9 day pass would make good sense:
http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/fares.html

It doesn't make sense for the typical suburbanite 2-trips-per-day usage pattern, but it *would* make sense in the examples listed here. Perhaps this could be simply resolved by making the day passes more widely known and available.

Also, as has been suggested, this could also be addressed easily with the connect card... fares are $3 each to a daily max of $9?
     
     
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