PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 74

summersm343 · #**1461** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Yeah, the building itself is attractive, but what a horrid site design! They have what amounts to a new off-ramp cutting into the approach to the South Street Bridge. And what they refer to as "Schuylkill Green" is essentially a wide driveway with a small median that will double the width of Schuylkill ave. There is absolutely no attempt to meet the street or in any way acknowledge that this building is for all intents and purposes in an extension of Center City. As much as I want to be excited by this, it's going to feel like an office park in the exurbs. This development has been a huge disappointment and I can only home that they redesign some of the more anti-urban aspects.

What exurbs have 23 floor, 375 foot towers in them?? Lol. Do you guys like anything?? Or do you just complain about everything. The street widening and the on/off ramp on South Street Bridge is to reduce traffic congestion that over 1 million sq feet of office/medical space will bring to the area. The neighbors were worried about traffic congestion, and when CHOP addresses that, they complain about how the complex meets the street. CHOP can't win either way.

Insoluble · #**1462** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

What exurbs have 23 floor, 375 foot towers in them?? Lol. Do you guys like anything?? Or do you just complain about everything. The street widening and the on/off ramp on South Street Bridge is to reduce traffic congestion that over 1 million sq feet of office/medical space will bring to the area. The neighbors were worried about traffic congestion, and when CHOP addresses that, they complain about how the complex meets the street. CHOP can't win either way.

I have no problem with the tower itself and I don't mean to imply that the tower looks suburban in any way. I think it's one of the better designs that's been proposed recently. I like that it isn't just another box and I really dig the use of terracotta at the base.

It's the site plan that's completely wrong for the city. The neighborhood NIMBYs are going to b!tch about parking and traffic as they always do. That type of complaining doesn't hold any truck with me when you're basically a 10 minute walk from Center City. I'll grant you that public transportation needs to be improved in that area, but the solution to that is not to design a soul sucking office park Again the building itself is gorgeous. The site design universally sucks.

It may just be me but I tend to strongly value pedestrian friendly urban design, and will often value it over architectural details. For what its worth I'm one of the few people who has said anything in defense of the new proposal for the Litt Bros building.

Kidphilly · #**1463** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:49 PM**

http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/preliminary-work-begins-1213-walnut/#more-20382

An update on 1213 Walnut

josef · #**1464** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:51 PM**

Huh, was this flying under the radar or did I just miss this. New apartment tower at 1213 Walnut, which will "envelope" Fergie's?! http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/preliminary-work-begins-1213-walnut/

tower · #**1465** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:55 PM**

i feel like skyscrapers will be sprouting like weeds in philadelphia

PhiLaw · #**1466** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef

Huh, was this flying under the radar or did I just miss this. New apartment tower at 1213 Walnut, which will "envelope" Fergie's?! http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/preliminary-work-begins-1213-walnut/

Fergie's is a nice low-key spot, but their main bartender sucks. But I'm off-topic. This will be great for the area. It will add more density and demand for all that retail on 13th.

Can't wait until the parking lot behind/next to Fergies is developed (although I believe Fergie's owner owns it so who knows).

josef · #**1467** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Fergie's is a nice low-key spot, but their main bartender sucks. But I'm off-topic. This will be great for the area. It will add more density and demand for all that retail on 13th.

Can't wait until the parking lot behind/next to Fergies is developed (although I believe Fergie's owner owns it so who knows).

They've got a great space upstairs for Quizzo. But yes more importantly, it's awesome that that RIDICULOUS HUGE LOT is going away. I work like two blocks from here, I'll have to take pictures when it starts going up.

PhiLaw · #**1468** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insoluble

I have no problem with the tower itself and I don't mean to imply that the tower looks suburban in any way. I think it's one of the better designs that's been proposed recently. I like that it isn't just another box and I really dig the use of terracotta at the base.

It's the site plan that's completely wrong for the city. The neighborhood NIMBYs are going to b!tch about parking and traffic as they always do. That type of complaining doesn't hold any truck with me when you're basically a 10 minute walk from Center City. I'll grant you that public transportation needs to be improved in that area, but the solution to that is not to design a soul sucking office park Again the building itself is gorgeous. The site design universally sucks.

It may just be me but I tend to strongly value pedestrian friendly urban design, and will often value it over architectural details. For what its worth I'm one of the few people who has said anything in defense of the new proposal for the Litt Bros building.

Remember that this is a hospital complex - albeit research-oriented. How many hospitals can you name that have no set-back from the street? All of the prime examples (Texas Medical Center being one such complex) reflect the need for more asymmetry and ready access.

Also, I used to live on 615 S. Schuylkill, just across the street from Springfield. This area is about as philly-gridded as Columbus Blvd. 26th st is the cut-off point for the grid. You can drive down Schuylkill Ave from the South St. bridge and not hit a stop sign for four blocks. This is a non-gridded water-adjacent site they're building on.

Mappy · #**1469** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:02 PM**

look at this craziness !!!

MikeNigh · #**1470** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:07 PM**

I think the base of the building is particularly cool. I wonder when the city is going to start thinking about stepping up public transportation.

summersm343 · #**1471** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

I think the base of the building is particularly cool. I wonder when the city is going to start thinking about stepping up public transportation.

If by city you meant SEPTA, and if by stepping up public transportation you mean when they get more funding from the state/fed... then yes that's when.

DIESELPOLO · #**1472** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

If by city you meant SEPTA, and if by stepping up public transportation you mean when they get more funding from the state/fed... then yes that's when.

Haha, @summersm343...

ILovePhilly · #**1473** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:24 PM**

We've discussed this before but I don't that that whatever is going on inside the building justifies poor street treatment. If you look through the designs you may find, as I found, that the treatment of the cycling and pedestrian environment is BAD.

They are proposing a driveway cut on South Street on the bridge where cyclists are already coming downhill with a 100 second light cycle. The cut is going to put right turning drivers right through the bike lane (on which bikers will have some speed going downhill). It's a deadly arrangement. And it will also jam up pedestrians. Having a light at 27th Street and about 150 feet west of there for the driveway cut will have a negative impact on traffic and on cyclists and pedestrians. (Me, personally, I don't care about negative impacts on traffic because I don't see what's so sacred about existing conditions). BUT the whole South Street bridge is considered part of the traffic flow for the on-off ramps for the Schuylkill Expressway so PennDOT and the Federal Government have to approve changes to traffic patterns. All of this is to say... if they did away with the curb cut on South Street I think they'd be in better position. The 40 is wildly inadequate. SEPTA and the City can't thrive on buses like the 40. I hate the 40. But rather than this curb cut Penn could run a 30th Street shuttle for workers to cut down on the need for driving/parking, for example.

The application also says that the plaza will allow bike/ped access to the trail after it's built south of South St. This is great! But I didn't see anywhere on the application that a bike could access the plaza (it was all steps) and the access is listed as "future". I'm not sure that access is critical as the South street bridge will have ramps up and running this spring but people may not want to deal with the 100 second light cycle to walk out the north side of the building or (worse) the north side access may be automobile only. They also aren't providing bike parking (specifically says no bike parking) which is just a textbook example of lacking sensitivity to their own needs. The new Comcast tower will have 175 bike parking spots and they had to keep adding spots at the current building to meet demand. It's just not forward thinking to make the whole thing automobile oriented. I think that was the basis of the suburbanesque complaint.

Also, as much as I love their little promenade overhanging the CSX tracks I can tell you that will never happen in ten million years. There will be air rights issues and CSX will be very protective now that they use those lines much more frequently for their oil train shipments.

Honestly aside from the South Street curb cut and the lack of bike sensitivity I like this proposal. They could put the curb cut for the garage off of Schuylkill Avenue or 27th Street and be in better shape.

I don't just like economic development and tall buildings; I like context and urbanity. It's possible to be critical of elements of this proposal without being some sort of impossible-to-please. This proposal could be better but that doesn't mean that overall it's a bad prospect.

Kidphilly · #**1474** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mappy

look at this craziness !!!

And there is potential on JFK and Market between 30th and Drexel and Edgewater 2 and that lot at 23rd and Cherry

Interesting lots of red...

summersm343 · #**1475** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 8:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/preliminary-work-begins-1213-walnut/#more-20382

An update on 1213 Walnut

NICE! I wasn't sure if this one was going up or not. Can't wait!

Quote:

Originally Posted by josef

Huh, was this flying under the radar or did I just miss this. New apartment tower at 1213 Walnut, which will "envelope" Fergie's?! http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/preliminary-work-begins-1213-walnut/

It's been floating around for a while. The site was tied up in legal issues which were resolved sometime last year. There is a thread created for this.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201859&highlight=Philadelphia

josef · #**1476** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

It's been floating around for a while. The site was tied up in legal issues which were resolved sometime last year. There is a thread created for this.

Ahhh cool. God I can't believe there're still threads I haven't subscribed to on here. Thanks for the link to that one.

cjPhilly · #**1477** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 9:10 PM**

I have to say I'm amazed with the amount of new buildings proposed and under construction right now! I never dreamed we would be back in this situation so fast after the collapse of the real estate market.

Does anyone have a good count on how many apartment units in large buildings are either under construction or proposed right now? Seems like it has to be a few thousand at least.

Jelly Roll · #**1478** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjPhilly

I have to say I'm amazed with the amount of new buildings proposed and under construction right now! I never dreamed we would be back in this situation so fast after the collapse of the real estate market.

Does anyone have a good count on how many apartment units in large buildings are either under construction or proposed right now? Seems like it has to be a few thousand at least.

I get roughly 3,000 apartments not including any of the proposed stuff along the Delaware River, 1,000 new hotels, and roughly 2.5 million in new office not including any of the hospital space in U City.

cubanChris · #**1479** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

What exurbs have 23 floor, 375 foot towers in them?? Lol. Do you guys like anything?? Or do you just complain about everything. The street widening and the on/off ramp on South Street Bridge is to reduce traffic congestion that over 1 million sq feet of office/medical space will bring to the area. The neighbors were worried about traffic congestion, and when CHOP addresses that, they complain about how the complex meets the street. CHOP can't win either way.

As a resident from that hood, I can say people aren't really concerned all that much about the parking. In fact, there are plans to carve out room for resident monthly parking and parking in 'off' hours in the massive garage CHoP is building there. All kudos to CHoP for working with the neighborhood to that solution. Hopefully that will curb some of the now well publicized parking anxiety created by a handful of residents.

That said, the single cafe space in the office is the main sticking point. Inga wrote one of her better articles about the poor urban experience the site plan hopes to offer, even once fully built. The complex across the river, though massive and a terrific economic engine, is an absolute mess. Granted, its primary purpose is urgent and normal hospital care so its organization favoring that (in theory?) is more forgivable.

This building is research jobs fronting an expanse of river that will host the SRT extension. The actual on-the-ground, good urban neighbor aspect of the project should be better. I love tall, beautiful buildings as much as the next guy on this site. Build it taller or cut the parking in half for all I care... My question is, will I ever really go to the landscaped areas this plan highlights? Seems much more likely they'll go largely unused.

Plokoon11 · #**1480** Posted **Feb 20, 2014, 9:40 PM**

There building too much in the city, we need to start knocking down a few skyscrapers to even it out.