The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Chadillaccc]

Bullet train could be privately built by 2020
By Darcy Henton, Calgary Herald | February 5, 2014

EDMONTON — A high-speed rail link between Calgary and Edmonton could be built by 2020 without government money, officials from an Alberta company told a legislative committee Wednesday.

Jack Crawford, chairman of Alberta High-Speed Rail, grabbed the attention of MLAs investigating the feasibility of a bullet train by saying his company can build the 300-kilometre line for less than $4 billion and finance it entirely through private investment.

“We think the project will make a modest return in the order of what you would expect from a utility for its investors,” he told the all-party standing committee on Alberta’s economic future. “For that reason we believe we can attract investors.”

The committee has already heard the high-speed rail line could cost as much as $20 billion and one Canadian transportation expert said Alberta is decades away from having the population to make a bullet train financially feasible.

But Crawford said low interest rates provide a window of opportunity for private investors to make a profit on the project.

“Why is our cost estimate so low? We’ve asked ourselves this question.” he said. “A lot of it is found in the fact you have a somewhat ideal set up of two cities an optimum distance apart with very few physical obstacles in the way and good soil conditions all the way.”

He said the company is using the provincial government’s own ridership study to forecast revenue.

Success of the venture is predicated on using conventional steel wheel-on-steel-rail electrically-powered trains that can travel at 300 km/h and make the trek from downtown Calgary to downtown Edmonton in 84 minutes, he said.

“We believe we can achieve that at a fare of approximately $100 one way,” he said.

All government needs to do is set up the regulatory framework for the acquisition of the right-of-way and public hearings, Crawford said.

He said it will take three years for the preliminary work, land acquisition, environmental studies and public hearings followed by three years of construction.

Full story: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/politi...+privately+built+2020/9474181/story.html






Calgary Transit gets green light on $889 million for 7 expansion projects
By Bryan Weismiller | January 31, 2014

Seven new rapid-transit corridors were blessed by city council Friday in what the mayor termed a “big, big deal” for Calgarians.

The newly approved plan involves a mix of bus-rapid-transit lines and transitways that stretch in the suburbs of all four quadrants. The projects will be done by 2021, pending expected cash from the provincial and federal governments.

“It’s going to make an enormous amount of difference for many, many people throughout our community,” Mayor Naheed Nenshi said in council chambers.

Although, he also questioned construction timelines, saying: “surely, we could move faster.”

The expansion plans are slated to cost $889 million, about half of which is tapped from a decade of collecting $52-million in “tax room” left by the provincial government.

It’s the grandest transit expense since council approved funding the west LRT in 2007 — which ended up costing $1.4 billion.

Full story: http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/928021/calgary-transit-gets-approval-on-7-expansion-projects/

[1overcosc]

^ So if there's a difference between 'Transitway' and 'BRT', then what does 'BRT' mean in Calgary? Mixed-traffic expresses?

[1overcosc]

^^ A hundred dollars??? That's pretty steep. At that point driving is much cheaper. $20-$30 would be much much much more appropriate.

[ssiguy]

In general, Transitway means a totally different roadway for most of the alignment ala Ottawa where BRT can be anything that is faster than the current bus although usually have POP, wide station spacing, articulates, and their own lanes dowen the middle of the road or HOV along the side.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^^ A hundred dollars??? That's pretty steep. At that point driving is much cheaper. $20-$30 would be much much much more appropriate.

Red Arrow $56-70 one way

Greyhound: $28-56 one way

These take 3.5-4.5hours depending on stops.

Flying is $150-200 and with getting to the airport etc. is 3hrs.

Say they can get the time down to 2-2.5hrs, $100 is fine.

[caltrane74]

Imagine if Alberta with 4 million people builds high speed rail before Ontario with 13.5 million. Please put us to shame.

We have a lot of bozos running shit here.

[Coldrsx]

Alberta doing so would show its utter stupidity by putting any public money into it at the moment other than for reserving the ROW.

[SteelTown]

Construction is starting for the new James St N GO Station, will be completed before the 2015 Pan Am Games...


https://twitter.com/HSRTransit/status/436518275871019009/photo/1

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^^ A hundred dollars??? That's pretty steep. At that point driving is much cheaper. $20-$30 would be much much much more appropriate.

How is that steep? That is a comparable price between Toronto and Ottawa, and the Alberta corridor has significantly more wealth per capita and way more intercity travel than that corridor. It isn't steep at all when considering comparables around the country. Actually I just checked and Toronto to Ottawa on Via rail one way is $165 including tax and still takes around 4 hours. So 2 hour HSR one way for $100 is a pretty good deal.

Also Caltrane, even if they do build it here, it won't be done by 2020, likely by the mid - late 20s at best, at which point Alberta will be 5 million (2027 - medium growth projection) with 4 million in the corridor.

[caltrane74]

There will never be high speed rail in S. Ontario anyways. These dumb ass farmers here don't want no part of that shit.

Go for it Alberta!

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

How is that steep? That is a comparable price between Toronto and Ottawa, and the Alberta corridor has significantly more wealth per capita and way more intercity travel than that corridor. It isn't steep at all when considering comparables around the country. Actually I just checked and Toronto to Ottawa on Via rail one way is $165 including tax and still takes around 4 hours. So 2 hour HSR one way for $100 is a pretty good deal.

Also Caltrane, even if they do build it here, it won't be done by 2020, likely by the mid - late 20s at best, at which point Alberta will be 5 million (2027 - medium growth projection) with 4 million in the corridor.

Really? I always pay $40-$45 to go to Montreal by VIA. But that's with online booking a few days in advance and going during weekdays, not sure how high weekend prices are.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ So if there's a difference between 'Transitway' and 'BRT', then what does 'BRT' mean in Calgary? Mixed-traffic expresses?

Calgary transit uses the BRT term for express busses. The Calgary local forum thinks its silly too.

[Aylmer]

^^

The discout prices from Ottawa to Toronto range from $28-35. I've said this a thousand times and I'll say it again:

Train travel is most beneficial when it competes with the car for price. We spend some $20B every year on car crashes (11 of which are direct costs). If we want to reduce that, it isn't enough to ask 3-15 times the price for twice the speed: it needs to be a viable option for groups, families, couples and everyone else.

The price of train tickets has to be fixed to the cost of fuel for 1-5 people. So Calgary-Edmonton should cost no more than $35 for 1-5 people.

If that means that they will be heavily subsidised, it'll still be less subsidised than car travel, all things considered and we'll save in infrastructure, health and environmental costs.
If it means that we'll only be able to afford 170-200km/h rail instead of 300km/h, so be it - what's the good of such a large investment if it can only be afforded by so few?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

How is that steep? That is a comparable price between Toronto and Ottawa, and the Alberta corridor has significantly more wealth per capita and way more intercity travel than that corridor. It isn't steep at all when considering comparables around the country. Actually I just checked and Toronto to Ottawa on Via rail one way is $165 including tax and still takes around 4 hours. So 2 hour HSR one way for $100 is a pretty good deal.

Also Caltrane, even if they do build it here, it won't be done by 2020, likely by the mid - late 20s at best, at which point Alberta will be 5 million (2027 - medium growth projection) with 4 million in the corridor.

no way Toronto-Ottawa is $165, I paid $95 in October to do that same trip. I bought tickets 2 weeks in advance though, I think they go up as you get closer to the date.

VIA is making a big deal advertising $40 fares between the two locations, but again, that is probably way in advance booking.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Red Arrow $56-70 one way

Greyhound: $28-56 one way

These take 3.5-4.5hours depending on stops.

Flying is $150-200 and with getting to the airport etc. is 3hrs.

Say they can get the time down to 2-2.5hrs, $100 is fine.

Bingo. Adding on to this, the people who get the most savings (and utility) out of HSR are business travellers, who will eat up the cost of the ticket in return for the time savings.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

no way Toronto-Ottawa is $165, I paid $95 in October to do that same trip. I bought tickets 2 weeks in advance though, I think they go up as you get closer to the date.

VIA is making a big deal advertising $40 fares between the two locations, but again, that is probably way in advance booking.

And clearly not all travel, probably less than half especially since a lot of the use of the train will be business travel, is booked 2 weeks in advance.

Via Rail, 4 - 4.5 hour trip between Ottawa and Toronto

Same day: $165
1 week advance: $112 ($91 if you can catch one of the few "escape" rate tickets)
2 weeks in advance: $45 if you can catch one of the "escape" rate tickets, $66 - $112 for all other economy.

This is all calculated by weekday travel btw.
http://www.viarail.ca/



Again, $100 not bad for a HSR 2 hour trip downtown to downtown. Compared to the 3 hour car travel time, plus parking costs, or the 3 hour travel time with flying then getting a cab to your actual destination in the city. Business travellers would cream for this, and many other travellers too, especially if the operator offered an advanced purchase "escape" rate as well, which I'm sure they would.




Also, here is a shot of one of the new additions to Calgary's bus fleet.

Originally Posted by mersar

The first of the latest order of 40' buses that CT has bought have hit the streets officially as of today. Here is one of them (along with the oldest bus in the fleet as a juxtaposition):


Source

[Daveography]

Whoopsie.

A sinkhole eight metres wide and 12 metres deep has opened up at the construction site digging the eastern entrance to Ottawa's light rail tunnel.

The cause isn't yet known, city officials said. No one was injured.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ott...ersection-near-tunnelling-site-1.2546074

[Beedok]

Good thing no one was injured.

I guess they have a new ventilation hole for the tunnel now?

[Daveography]

^ One nice thing about being a software guy...my mistakes are seldom if ever visible from the air.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Red Arrow $56-70 one way

Greyhound: $28-56 one way

These take 3.5-4.5hours depending on stops.

Flying is $150-200 and with getting to the airport etc. is 3hrs.

Say they can get the time down to 2-2.5hrs, $100 is fine.

Comparing the price of HSR to existing intercity travel prices is NOT a good way to go, because intercity travel prices in Canada are already insanely overpriced.

By your logic, if Loblaws randomly decides to raise the price of a litre of milk to $12, Sobeys charging $9 would be reasonable.

In Europe you can travel intercity distances of several hundred km for just a few euros.