Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Mac Write]

Maybe due to issues downtown which made it priority #1?

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Unrelated, but I came across a funny at Bridgeport Exch yesterday where an articulated bus on layover (probably for a 620 service) was being signed as a community shuttle route!

...that doesn't exist



EDIT: I'm now aware that the C35 basically used to be the 177 (before it was completely cut off). Interesting how there was actually enough ridership demand on the corridor for a 10 min frequency previously.

That kinda reminds me of the time when I was at Metrotown Stn and saw one the 430 driver put up C48 as its destination sign. And also when I was at Guildford waiting for the 96 B-Line one of the drivers put up 128 Braid Stn as its destination sign.

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

EDIT: I'm now aware that the C35 basically used to be the 177 (before it was completely cut off). Interesting how there was actually enough ridership demand on the corridor for a 10 min frequency previously.

C35 was 10min service with 2/3 of the runs (to Planet Ice) served by conventional bus. Service was reduced to every 15min after the conversion to 177, as the new 791 runs as express that pretty much duplicate the service.

I think the Hwy1 construction really killed the ridership during the summer-fall of 2011, as King Edward overpass construction closed the road and forced a huge detour for all traffics. Riders going to United Blvd from Braid had to transfer to a shuttle route 197 near Cape Horn, which lengthened travel time from 5-10min to 25-50min.

Less than year after (Sept 2012), they cut the service to every 30min before ridership rebounded. Less than a year after that (Apr 2013), the route was completely cut.

I guess this is now how much patience (and resources) TransLink has regarding to (re-)building up ridership?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Apparently starting tonight, power reail work is happening in the Dunsmuir Tunnel downtown, resulting in a single-track shuttle between Stadium and Waterfront.
Perhaps unrelated, but Waterfront inbound wasn't in use today, with all trains crossing over to the outbound track just before entering the station.

I know they had said the next phase of the power rail project was downtown, but it seems weird to me for them to start before having fully finished through New West. They still haven't done replacement on the outbound guideway between 22nd and New West.

May also depend if the contracts were awarded separately - different contractors would work indpendently

[queetz@home]

I'm surprised nobody bothered posting this article from last Saturday. Its a very interesting read, with comments from George Puil, Glen Clark, Kevin Falcon, Blair Lekstrom, Ian Jarvis and Ken Cameron, people who throughout the history of Translink from 1999 until today, have help shape it (or gave us all this mess).

Evolution of a Transit Authority

Notable excerpts...

George Puil

“I went to every municipality to get them to agree and they did,” said Puil, a former TransLink chairman who met with transportation officials across North America to develop the model. “I thought we had it right.”

“You have to have some form of road tax,” he said. “I think the municipalities have to be strong enough and they have to step in and say ‘this is our business. You can’t make decisions for us.’ ”

Puil argues mayors have to be involved in the system, noting in the early days there was unanimity around the board. “We never wanted SkyTrain,” he said. “The main problem is the lack of money, and the capital projects they take on are huge. The capital expenditure for SkyTrain is far in excess of what it would have been for light rail.”

Glen Clark

“I again underestimated the territoriality, the turf protecting, that went on,” Clark said. “They don’t want to raise the money for big projects. They could theoretically do it, but it’s very hard for them to raise that kind of capital. So it ends up them kind of running the bus system.

“And the big-picture stuff, everybody has competing demands. The province has, historically, including when I was there, including when Gordon Campbell was there, including when Bill Bennett was there, simply intervened, paid the money, set the priority and turned it over to them.”

Kevin Falcon

“At the end of the day the public really gets tired of the infighting and the parochialism and finger-pointing and they really want to see results,” Falcon said. “I’m happy to let people criticize myself or government during that process, but I like to be able to look back and say, ‘You know what, we got those things launched and we got them built, whether it was the Canada Line or Evergreen Line.’ ”

Blair Lekstrom

“At some point, and this is where I differed from many members on the mayors council, property taxes have to be part of that solution,” said Lekstrom. “They were adamant they’d paid enough. But you can’t reach out to the people of Tumbler Ridge or wherever to say contribute to Metro Vancouver transit.”

Ian Jarvis

“We have adequate funding to cover the services that are there today,” said Jarvis, who has been with TransLink since its inception, previously as chief financial officer. “The challenge is what is the appropriate level of investment we need to bite off next and what’s a fair and equitable way to pay for that?”Local mayors have repeatedly called for a road pricing strategy to pay for transit. This could include the vehicle levy, tolls on every bridge or a fee per distance travelled.

Ken Cameron

“If I had my way I wouldn’t build another inch of rapid transit in this region until we have a better idea of where we’re growing,” Cameron said. “What we should be doing is the least costly solution to achieve the outcome that we want. What we seem to be losing track of is that we should be trying to move people and goods efficiently in the region and yet we have these vanity projects that are costing a lot of money.”

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nname

C35 was 10min service with 2/3 of the runs (to Planet Ice) served by conventional bus. Service was reduced to every 15min after the conversion to 177, as the new 791 runs as express that pretty much duplicate the service.

I think the Hwy1 construction really killed the ridership during the summer-fall of 2011, as King Edward overpass construction closed the road and forced a huge detour for all traffics. Riders going to United Blvd from Braid had to transfer to a shuttle route 197 near Cape Horn, which lengthened travel time from 5-10min to 25-50min.

Less than year after (Sept 2012), they cut the service to every 30min before ridership rebounded. Less than a year after that (Apr 2013), the route was completely cut.

I guess this is now how much patience (and resources) TransLink has regarding to (re-)building up ridership?

It was completely cut, but replaced (at least along the higher traffic part of the route on United Blvd.) by the 159.

The community shuttle was always full up during the rush.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I'm surprised nobody bothered posting this article from last Saturday.

Very interesting. I missed that article, thanks for posting the link to it.

I agree that Coquitlam got screwed when the Canada Line leapfrogged the Millenium line. But I think the decision to use Skytrain over light rail is the right one because it will create a more seamless network with the Millenium line - and that will magnify the benefits, especially when the network connection between the Canada and Millenium lines is finally made.

And the Canada Line is a Good Thing. Its easy to see that the ridership is there and having an airport connection is really a no-brainer in my opinion.

The article seems to have unrealistic expectations about the pace of change that can be expected from a rapid transit line:

Although Canada Line has drawn the ridership, highrise development is only now going in along Cambie — four years after the trains started rolling to the airport.

Four years to approve upzoning and major development of the kind being talked about is NOT slow given all the hoops that have to be jumped through. Heck, I've been pursuing the construction of a wheelchair ramp for our house and I'm 5 months into it now with nothing to show for it so far.

The changes will come. You can trace the route of the Expo line by the clusters of condo towers that surround many of its stations, and none of them were there originally. Edmonds, Metrotown, Joyce, Main Street, etc. all took a lot more than four years to accumulate significant condo development.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by officedweller

In case you didn't see them in the Evergreen Line thread, here are a couple of issues of BranchLine - a Canadian railway magazine with good background summary articles on the Millennium Line (January 2003) and Canada Line (December 2009):

Millennium Line article:
http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/branchline/files/2003/2003-01.pdf

Canada Line article:
http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/branchline/files/2009/2009-12.pdf

If you read the Millennium Line article above, there's a historical note that I didn't know about.

Instead of the Province and TransLink each contributing its share to the M-Line mainline, it was agreed that the Province would pay for the entire cost of the mainline of the M-Line ($1.2B), and TransLink would then allocate its project contribution to funding almost all of the PMC Line ($700M). The PMC Line was dropped in part because TransLink couldn't fund it on its own. The Province's contribution to the PMC Line was already made through the construction of the Lougheed Station junction for the PMC Line.

So... when it came to the next line to be built, the Province had already maxed out its contribution towards the M-Line/PMC Line, so from its perspective (together with Olympic urgency), the next project it was funding would be the Canada Line.

[tybuilding]

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute...mpic-legacy-shaping-future-transit/8422/

How Vancouver's Olympic Legacy Is Shaping the Future of TransitFrances

VANCOUVER, Canada — If the $50 billion Sochi Olympics have raised the specter of runaway public spending on infrastructure, this Canadian city offers an alternative.

One of the legacies of the Olympic Games held here four years ago is a light rail line that has become something of an international model in transit circles. The sleek Canada Line runs from the suburb of Richmond into the heart of Vancouver, with a spur to the airport. Since it opened in 2009, it’s picked up more riders than expected — 112,000 per day or about 40 million per year. The Canada Line also has come with predictable costs, thanks to the innovative financing scheme that built it and continues to sustain it today.

The Canada Line was the first transit project in North America to use a public-private partnership, or "P3," in almost every way these partnerships are possible. A private firm was responsible for designing, building and partially financing the 12 mile line. The firm also is responsible for maintaining the infrastructure and operating the service until 2040.

[tybuilding]

oops repost

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by officedweller

If you read the Millennium Line article above, there's a historical note that I didn't know about.

Instead of the Province and TransLink each contributing its share to the M-Line mainline, it was agreed that the Province would pay for the entire cost of the mainline of the M-Line ($1.2B), and TransLink would then allocate its project contribution to funding almost all of the PMC Line ($700M). The PMC Line was dropped in part because TransLink couldn't fund it on its own. The Province's contribution to the PMC Line was already made through the construction of the Lougheed Station junction for the PMC Line.

So... when it came to the next line to be built, the Province had already maxed out its contribution towards the M-Line/PMC Line, so from its perspective (together with Olympic urgency), the next project it was funding would be the Canada Line.

But remember, it was the Province, specifically Premier Ujjal Dosanjh, with a push by opposition leader Gordon Campbell, that yanked out the $75 vehicle levy (with ugly little troll Doug McCallum fiercely leading the attack it for *his* community), hence why Translink cannot build the PMC Line. So the Province caused this issue at the first place.

I'd also like to point out that while in hindsight, the Evergreen Line was finally getting built as Skytrain, lets not forget the only reason why its moving forward was because Christy Clark threw Blair Lekstrom under the bus, and was essentially forced to back track to make herself look less stupid at that time. If it weren't for that mistake, everything would still be in a standstill with that project. The joys of politics, eh?

[gkz]

Has there ever been any thought into carrying lightweight freight over the Skytrain? Eg. FedEx, instead of trucking various packages between the airport and downtown, could have an automated freight car running between the two on the Canada line.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I'm surprised nobody bothered posting this article from last Saturday.
Evolution of a Transit Authority

My God that Donald Malcolm Johnston person in the comments...

[Tfreder]

Originally Posted by Klazu

My God that Donald Malcolm Johnston person in the comments...

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh!

I can hardly believe that so many people think the skytrain is completely unreliable.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh!

I can hardly believe that so many people think the skytrain is completely unreliable.

It's nice to see that once anonymity is removed that Malcolm Johnston seems to be the lone guy yelling in the corner.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by bardak

It's nice to see that once anonymity is removed that Malcolm Johnston seems to be the lone guy yelling in the corner.

The funny thing is even if Malcolm Johnston hides behind usernames and such, its VERY EASY to spot that its him. A few aliases on top of my head in various newsites such as the Georgia Straight, Vancouver Sun, News 1130, the CBC, and so on...he goes by "Zweisystem", "Evil Eye", and "The One Who Knows".

That guy is, to be honest, a bit of a nutcase. I cannot understand his obsession against Skytrain, and even when Translink decided LRT for the Evergreen, he still bashes it, making excuses like calling it a light metro because it uses a tunnel (even though Portland LRT uses a tunnel too).

While Translink, Skytrain, and our transportation system is light years away from perfect, it seems DMJ is not really offering anything constructive, and is just looking for a fight. Its sad really....but what's even sadder is media people take him seriously.

As far as I know, he has never been a planner or actually consulted building LRT systems anywhere, so I don't know why he gets published so much here. I guess if you write to the Letters of the Editor enough, they can call you an "expert"...

[splashflash]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

As far as I know, he has never been a planner or actually consulted building LRT systems anywhere, so I don't know why he gets published so much here. I guess if you write to the Letters of the Editor enough, they can call you an "expert"...

He isn't an expert or professional. He owned an antique store in Vancouver then sold it. He drove there from Tsawwassen, not taking transit.

He isn't really interested in transit but rather in an lrt dream palace.

If you hear him interviewed by the media, you should call them out on their folly as treating him as someone with insightful knowledge.

[dpogue]

The TransLink Mayors' Council launched a website yesterday, "trying to set the record straight" as their tagline says:
http://www.translinkmayors.ca/home.html

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The TransLink Mayors' Council launched a website yesterday, "trying to set the record straight" as their tagline says:
http://www.translinkmayors.ca/home.html

I vaguely remember them launching a website way before yesterday. I think it was even Dianne Watts that mentioned it in a news article somewhere. Took a quick glance and never went back.

This website...I find it kinda suspicious (i.e. meaning not official). It doesn't seem to be made by the Mayor's Council, and seems extremely amaturish at best with a lot of old info. I think some individual just made the website with the appropriate copyright (not hard) and just put up a bunch of links and documents.

And be careful if you want to send a message....just make sure you don't get phished...

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I vaguely remember them launching a website way before yesterday. I think it was even Dianne Watts that mentioned it in a news article somewhere. Took a quick glance and never went back.

This website...I find it kinda suspicious (i.e. meaning not official). It doesn't seem to be made by the Mayor's Council, and seems extremely amaturish at best with a lot of old info. I think some individual just made the website with the appropriate copyright (not hard) and just put up a bunch of links and documents.

And be careful if you want to send a message....just make sure you don't get phished...

Made with Godaddy's free website builder, hah.