Canada's 50 Tallest Proposals

[uzi]

i have never visited Montreal or Quebec city and i don't know much but my grandfather visited Montreal, Quebec city and bunch of other towns in 1970's for a business trip and he told me that it is a very nice place it have historic architecture and full of history but the only problem is language. most of people cant speak French that's why they prefer Vancouver or Toronto and that is the reason why immigrants move to Toronto or Vancouver and they bring more investments with them. no offence but i think that is the reason why most tourists don't go to Quebec.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hey, I have travelled all over the world, I speak three languages pretty well and can get by in two more.

In all my life I have had exactly... let me count them now... shouldn't be too hard... ZERO people from other countries express their interest in visiting Toronto. ZERO.

Much of my life was spent travelling under the identity of an Ottawan since I lived there for quite some time. Where are you from in Canada? Ottawa. So I never got the "courtesy interest" for either Montreal or Toronto. Nor even for Ottawa for that matter - no one ever responded "Ottawa, I'd like to
visit there someday!"

The places in Canada that titillate people's interest abroad are Montreal, Quebec City, the Rockies (broadly defined), Niagara Falls, Vancouver. Also Newfoundland and the Far North to some degree.

Now... I have had some people tell me that they have been to Ontario-Quebec and ended up (unexpectedly) liking Toronto better than Montreal. Not tons, but I have heard this.

Now Part Deux... I have also had discussions with immigration-minded people about moving to Canada and there Toronto ranks much more highly than Montreal as a settlement destination. If anything, Vancouver is probably second to Toronto and ahead of Montreal on this front.

That's wonderful. I speak 4 fluently and a fifth partially. I travel Europe annually, I also lived there for many years. When I say I'm from Canada I get the standard 'Toronto?'. But why not, let's just subjectively throw out facts... Those numbers I provided clearly don't seem to do it... (I'm a banker, I like numbers...)

I am so excited your personal experiences count as fact. That's incredible! I've never met anyone who just knows everyone and can accurately gauge tourist numbers and tourist spend from meaningless conversations while travelling in Europe...

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Really ? It's all very subjective, you know.

Most Charming Canadian City: Montreal Wins Hearts, Toronto Gets Pity Vote

Montreal: the Most Romantic City in North America.

World's Most Romantic Cities

Agreed.. That's why I go with hard numbers (those two sources) that show Toronto and Vancouver absolutely blowing Montreal out of the water in terms of overnight tourists and tourist spend (the only two reasons to like tourists.. you know.. they come here and spend money helping the local economy...) The only reason American think Montreal is romantic is because they speak French. The city could look like Port-au-Prince and they'd still find it charming.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by flipv

Which is why Toronto receives far more overnight tourists than Montreal who spend a significant amount of money (eclipsing Montreal by a large amount)...

http://blog.euromonitor.com/2014/01/euromonitor-internationals-top-city-destinations-ranking.html

http://insights.mastercard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mastercard_GDCI_Final_V4.pdf

1 New York 11.5 mil
2 Los Angeles 4.8 mil
3 Miami 3.9 mil
4 Toronto 3.4 mil
5 Vancouver 3.4 mil
6 San Francisco 3.0 mil
7 Washington 2.3 mil
8 Chicago 2.2 mil
9 Montreal 2.0 mil
10 Boston 1.6 mil

I would assume that Toronto is ahead mainly due to business travel, rather than people going there purely as tourists.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by flipv

Which is why Toronto receives far more overnight tourists than Montreal who spend a significant amount of money (eclipsing Montreal by a large amount)...

http://blog.euromonitor.com/2014/01/euromonitor-internationals-top-city-destinations-ranking.html

http://insights.mastercard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mastercard_GDCI_Final_V4.pdf

1 New York 11.5 mil
2 Los Angeles 4.8 mil
3 Miami 3.9 mil
4 Toronto 3.4 mil
5 Vancouver 3.4 mil
6 San Francisco 3.0 mil
7 Washington 2.3 mil
8 Chicago 2.2 mil
9 Montreal 2.0 mil
10 Boston 1.6 mil

Gotta go with Hard Facts man. MASTERCARD knows where people live, it knows where poeople go, and it knows what people spend when they get there. END OF STORY.


Back to Skyscrapers.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I would assume that Toronto is ahead mainly due to business travel, rather than people going there purely as tourists.

Not quite, otherwise Chicago, Houston, and some other American cities would rank higher.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I would assume that Toronto is ahead mainly due to business travel, rather than people going there purely as tourists.

It's also a major air travel hub, which generates a good number of overnights at airport hotels. When an executive from DeBeers in South Africa overnights at the Pearson Airport Sheraton before his flight to Timmins the next day, and pays for the stay and his dinner with his MasterCard, he counts in Toronto's numbers.

It is also a much larger city with a significantly more diverse population than Montreal, which generates a lot of VFR (visiting friends and relatives) numbers from abroad for weddings, funerals, anniversaries, baptisms, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by flipv

Not quite, otherwise Chicago, Houston, and some other American cities would rank higher.

Except that what we see is a mix of everything. And that's why your conclusion about Toronto being more attractive to leisure travellers is fallacious.

Cf Sao Paulo vs. Rio de Janeiro.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Gotta go with Hard Facts man. MASTERCARD knows where people live, it knows where poeople go, and it knows what people spend when they get there. END OF STORY.


Back to Skyscrapers.

Except that we don't know why they've come to the city.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that we don't know why they've come to the city.

and you do?


Gotta go with hard facts. International Traveler Survey Why they come to Canada and Where they go - All Here for ya Pal in Black and White

Show me hard data and I will believe you. So far you're going hyper subjective man.

(in thousands)
Ontario International Visitors : 7,651.8
Quebec International Visitors : 2,884.4
BC International Visitors : 4,282.3

[Gresto]

C'mon, guys, let's not make this another city vs. city shitfest.

Any news on any of the top-50? Man, we're in a comparative drought of info on exciting proposals here in T.O.

[WhipperSnapper]

Nature is the impression most have of Canada but, to say there is ZERO interest in visiting Toronto is extremely far fetched in my experience.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Gresto

C'mon, guys, let's not make this another city vs. city shitfest.

Any news on any of the top-50? Man, we're in a comparative drought of info on exciting proposals here in T.O.

The last real good skyscraper proposals have been 50 Bloor West and 1 Yorkville, and that tower isn't even 200 meters. So yes we at least in Toronto we are in a proposal drought.

Things will get better in Spring when the weather warms up methinks.

[uzi]

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2014.TE30.53
report on 1-7 yonge (from UT Member).

[Gresto]

^Some news on 1-7 Yonge: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2014.TE30.53

[Gresto]

Beat me to it by mere seconds, uzi.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Nature is the impression most have of Canada but, to say there is ZERO interest in visiting Toronto is extremely far fetched in my experience.

I never said there was zero interest. I said no one had ever mentioned it to me, whereas people have mentioned lots of other places in Canada.

It's not the same.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also a major air travel hub, which generates a good number of overnights at airport hotels. When an executive from DeBeers in South Africa overnights at the Pearson Airport Sheraton before his flight to Timmins the next day, and pays for the stay and his dinner with his MasterCard, he counts in Toronto's numbers.

It is also a much larger city with a significantly more diverse population than Montreal, which generates a lot of VFR (visiting friends and relatives) numbers from abroad for weddings, funerals, anniversaries, baptisms, etc.

Which would also explain why the numbers for Vancouver are higher than those from San Francisco. It's really hard to believe that there are really more tourists in Vancouver than San Francisco.

I would put Rob Ford in a cage in the Toronto zoo. That would boost tourism quite a bit.


But, yes, this is off-topic, so that's it for me.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Gresto

^Some news on 1-7 Yonge: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2014.TE30.53

Basically a report about a report...

Facinating. Yup, we're in a drought.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Which would also explain why the numbers for Vancouver are higher than those from San Francisco. It's really hard to believe that there are really more tourists in Vancouver than San Francisco.

But, yes, this is off-topic, so that's it for me.

The report didn't say more tourist go to Vancouver than San Fransisco. Just that the tourist using MASTERCARD that went to Vancouver spent margianlly more..

Remember it's a MASTERCARD report.


Leaves out all those tourist that use Visa, Amex and Discover to the tally, which are all bigger in the United States.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

The report didn't say more tourist go to Vancouver than San Fransisco. Just that the tourist that went to Vancouver spent margianlly more..

Tell that to flipv.